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  1. #21
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    For everyone saying to just spend the $15 bucks to subscribe, put your money where your mouth is. if the cost is so negligible, so insignificant, surely you'd have no problem paying for someone else that cannot afford to do so at this time. As someone else pointed out so very helpfully, they sell time cards in the Market. Feel free to PM me the code.
    I would really, really love to see a new event, 15$s a month, p2p for everyone, including vip. Suddenly it would become a huge amount of money and forums will be flooded with threads like "hurr durr im paying for vip and now you want me to pay moar?!11 you greedy ssg thiefs!".

  2. #22
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    That is a poor analogy.

    It's more like shopping at a retailer. Let's say I usually use Gift Cards to pay for my purchases. But the retailer begins selling a new item that must be paid for in cash and will not accept the gift cards (for which I've already paid them cash.)

    Get outta here.
    I will respectfully just disagree and you're welcome to stay.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
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  3. #23
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Hmmm...

    Well this was supposed to be a nice thank you for SSG and the efforts they put in place for Hardcore League. I now have 3 characters on HCL between levels 4-6 and I have not died yet, I have been lucky and fortunate to be grouping with some good players.

    I consider DDO entertainment and just like all other entertainment it is ultimately a business and I recognize it costs money to attend and it cost money for the business to produce their product. I just paid $238 to attend an upcoming concert my wife and I are interested in. I should have used the argument that many are expressing here.

    Dear Singer,
    I have purchased your music online and watched your videos for several years now. I don't think it is fair that you are charging me this outrageous rate just to attend your concert. If you cannot see it within you to allow my previous years of loyalty to allow me to attend your concern for free then I will no longer attend or continue to support you.

    Thank you Music Lover

    I love DDO and I love D&D, there is always room for improvement and yes sometimes things I wish would be different. I am a massive Forgotten Realms fan and would dearly love to see it expanded to the point that Ebberon is from levels 1-30 plus. It has not but I still love the game immensely.
    This would be more like buying a pass to see all concerts in any venue owned by a specific company, only to be told later that since they just built this new venue you have to pay extra to see this one.

    They gave all players 2 payment options. VIP and Premium. Then used the heavy lobbying through the usual suspects to justify the new monetizing method. "It can be earned in game" they said. "You can't complain about it if you can farm it for free" they said.

    Of course, some of us knew where this all leads. The erosion of being able to "earn it free in game" would occur. This is simply one of those examples. At some point in time people will have large stacks of points built up due to the reincarnation grind, where simply charging points for some things will not bring in much revenue. This will lead to RL money transactions being back on the menu.

    ItCanBeEarnedForFreeThroughGamePlay**
    **except for when it can't
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  4. #24
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gniewomir View Post
    I would really, really love to see a new event, 15$s a month, p2p for everyone, including vip. Suddenly it would become a huge amount of money and forums will be flooded with threads like "hurr durr im paying for vip and now you want me to pay moar?!11 you greedy ssg thiefs!".
    Even more hilarious when that event siphons the majority of players off the live servers, and now if you want a much higher probability of playing with others you have to pay for that privilege. Or dont pay and try to rally 1-5 of the 60 players logged into the live server you play on to group up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  5. #25
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This would be more like buying a pass to see all concerts in any venue owned by a specific company, only to be told later that since they just built this new venue you have to pay extra to see this one.

    They gave all players 2 payment options. VIP and Premium. Then used the heavy lobbying through the usual suspects to justify the new monetizing method. "It can be earned in game" they said. "You can't complain about it if you can farm it for free" they said.

    Of course, some of us knew where this all leads. The erosion of being able to "earn it free in game" would occur. This is simply one of those examples. At some point in time people will have large stacks of points built up due to the reincarnation grind, where simply charging points for some things will not bring in much revenue. This will lead to RL money transactions being back on the menu.

    ItCanBeEarnedForFreeThroughGamePlay**
    **except for when it can't
    Thank you for your example. I respectfully disagree with your example but will reestablish that the example I gave above is more accurate.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    I will respectfully just disagree and you're welcome to stay.
    Compelling.

  7. #27
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    It's never been true that you can buy everything offered by VIP. But I do understand the frustration of normal premium players. I think the problem is that the free point system was made way back in the day and is now far too generous for the way the game is currently played with everyone zerging elite/r1 one life after another building up piles of favor (and therefore points) without going out of their way at all. There's too many people with piles of points they built up for free.

    Anyway, I'm feeling myself get sucked in to hardcore again even though I didn't plan to do it this time. It really is fun, and I love the atmosphere.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    It's never been true that you can buy everything offered by VIP. But I do understand the frustration of normal premium players. I think the problem is that the free point system was made way back in the day and is now far too generous for the way the game is currently played with everyone zerging elite/r1 one life after another building up piles of favor (and therefore points) without going out of their way at all. There's too many people with piles of points they built up for free.

    Anyway, I'm feeling myself get sucked in to hardcore again even though I didn't plan to do it this time. It really is fun, and I love the atmosphere.
    This is a poor argument. If you give people something compelling to spend their points on, they will no longer have piles of points. And what better way than to get those very players onto HC?

  9. #29
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    I would request that all non-VIP members buy into a sort VIP subscription to experience Hardcore at least for a few weeks. It really is intense and makes you play with a much more laser focus on your decisions and your group members decisions. There is no doubt that HC is successful for SSG and it should be. They have put together a quality experience for players.
    i have a counter request; that SSG buys into the hardcore experience and merges all non-hardcore servers. there is no doubt that would be successful for everyone and it should be - they would have put together a quality experience for players

  10. #30
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    It's never been true that you can buy everything offered by VIP. But I do understand the frustration of normal premium players. I think the problem is that the free point system was made way back in the day and is now far too generous for the way the game is currently played with everyone zerging elite/r1 one life after another building up piles of favor (and therefore points) without going out of their way at all. There's too many people with piles of points they built up for free.

    Anyway, I'm feeling myself get sucked in to hardcore again even though I didn't plan to do it this time. It really is fun, and I love the atmosphere.
    sure it was. when i joined VIP gave access to character slots, drow, warforged, fvs, monk, shared bank, and all packs. every one of those was purchasable with (then-)Turbine Points

    and back then there was no reaper or epic, so people zerging through lives were only doing TRs, and since reaper offers no favor bonus over elite they would necessarily be generating favor even faster. combined with the fact that there were dramatically less things to spend them on, there were necessarily far greater free point surpluses then

  11. #31
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    This is a poor argument. If you give people something compelling to spend their points on, they will no longer have piles of points. And what better way than to get those very players onto HC?
    The real argument, whether its poor or not, is the "dont worry, it can be earned free in game" lobbying of the past, backfired - because now days they realize they need to charge RL money for some things because points dont pay RL bills and RL salaries.

    This, as we are currently witnessing, assists in dividing the player base even further. Most see the monetizing model for what it is at this point, whether they accept it or not, while a handful still defend it tooth and nail regardless of how absurd the arguments for defending it become.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  12. #32
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Thank you for your example. I respectfully disagree with your example but will reestablish that the example I gave above is more accurate.
    Its not though. If it was, the analogy would not be needed at all to make the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    That is a poor analogy.

    It's more like shopping at a retailer. Let's say I usually use Gift Cards to pay for my purchases. But the retailer begins selling a new item that must be paid for in cash and will not accept the gift cards (for which I've already paid them cash.)

    Get outta here.
    Except that legally its of course very different.

    As an aside, I find it amusing that some of the same people complaining about hc draining servers of players have been against server mergers. You made your bed, enjoy.

  14. #34
    Community Member Annihilyght's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    For everyone saying to just spend the $15 bucks to subscribe, put your money where your mouth is. if the cost is so negligible, so insignificant, surely you'd have no problem paying for someone else that cannot afford to do so at this time. As someone else pointed out so very helpfully, they sell time cards in the Market. Feel free to PM me the code.
    Ha ha mwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha mwah ha ha ha...you make me giggle.
    Lyghtki | Immortalyght | Eternalyght | Annihilyght of Omega Guard on Thelanis

  15. #35
    Community Member lillentle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Last evening I played until late into the night (for me) on the hardcore server. I rolled up a Spellsinger Drow bard and played mostly with guildmates and some other friends. I have to say I really enjoyed myself and haven't died yet (hopefully no yet). The experience just flay intensifies the DDO and D&D experience. Great work SSG.

    There is one area that hasn't affected anyone in my parties yet but there was some periodic skipping and lag in the game last night. I hope that can get addressed.
    I hate it!

    No, I just died so I'm clearly ****ed, but I really liked how it felt so 2008, I was even looking at the base value of items so I could sell them for more plat. People were offering me items they thought would suit me better, basic ****** items but on hardcore they're good items, and important! I was casting resists, I was buffing people before I shrined(nostalgic). I really enjoyed that part, people were being much smarter, but it really was every man for himself, like sometimes if a reaper spawns all the melee/big HP will run from it, and so if I attack it first and don't kill it, it's going to come after me.. whereas if I just wait for someone else to attack it first, then I know it will go after them and I can finish it off. I almost wish the whole party had to wipe.

    With all the balancing they're doing to suit Hardcore, and how mad everyones getting over it, I just wish they would make the quest levels balanced, it's almost just as important to look at when the quest was released as what level it is, as a new quest has mobs scaled for the power creep, a new quest is almost +3 or so levels from the older ones.
    Lillentle, the smaller Lentle

  16. #36
    The Bashful Balladeer nazgul748's Avatar
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    Default Just a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    You're right, it is unfortunate.

    I also will not be VIP. I have purchased a lot of DDO points to support the game. I won't be spending $15 for the privilege of playing HC.

    Thanks for the 3 month VIP only event, devs. Imagine if the DDO Anniversary event were VIP only. Or Crystal Cove, or Night Revels. That's exactly what we're talking about with HC, except it lasts 3 months and is up 6 months of the year.

    Forget that. I'm not waiting around. I'm on hiatus.
    If access to the HC sever was available for $15 worth of DDO points, would you do it then?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazgul748 View Post
    If access to the HC sever was available for $15 worth of DDO points, would you do it then?
    I guess we'll never know.

  18. #38
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    During Reaper 1 I played kind of all over the map. I did hard, elite, reaper runs and was able to get one character to level 12 before he finally died. After I died the 4th time I gave up and said maybe next time.

    During Reaper 2 I also gave myself the goal of a max of 4 lives before resigning my efforts. I have died once thus far and it was because I allowed myself to get caught up in the party ZERG feast that upon reflection I should have known better. So 1 life down 3 to go. I have 3 characters now all at level 8 with about 600 favor apiece. I only run on ELITE at 4 levels below my character with the exception of some chains but then am extra cautious. As a result of all of tis I am finding that I am really enjoying the Hardcore League even more. I may end up with three characters at level 20 and at 1,750 favor. I hop to get at least one to 5,000 favor but we will see about that.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    That is a poor analogy.

    It's more like shopping at a retailer. Let's say I usually use Gift Cards to pay for my purchases. But the retailer begins selling a new item that must be paid for in cash and will not accept the gift cards (for which I've already paid them cash.)

    Get outta here.
    Except that you can also earn your gift cards just by standing around in the store not spending money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    This is a poor argument. If you give people something compelling to spend their points on, they will no longer have piles of points. And what better way than to get those very players onto HC?
    The way the game is played to acquire past lives, by running things only once on E/R for first time bonus... the side effect is max point generation. For hardcore players anything for points might as well be free, for not hardcore a hefty discount over face cost.
    Last edited by Cantor; 02-28-2020 at 07:23 AM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    sure it was. when i joined VIP gave access to character slots, drow, warforged, fvs, monk, shared bank, and all packs. every one of those was purchasable with (then-)Turbine Points

    and back then there was no reaper or epic, so people zerging through lives were only doing TRs, and since reaper offers no favor bonus over elite they would necessarily be generating favor even faster. combined with the fact that there were dramatically less things to spend them on, there were necessarily far greater free point surpluses then
    Several things are wrong here. ViP does not give fvs and it doesn't give 32 point (both are favor unlocks like drow), so let's add vet status to the list too, character slots and shared bank gives you some but you still have to buy upgrades (20 slots is not the same as 200+ for bank, and 10 slots is not the same as 40 for characters). Oh, character inventory and bank too.
    Last edited by Cantor; 02-28-2020 at 07:24 AM.

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