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  1. #61
    Hero apocaladle's Avatar
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    The population on other servers is inly temporary.

    Hcl 2 is brand new and shiney, give it a few weeks and you will notice people starting to come back to normal servers. In general once people get the rewards they want or get salty at losing a high level toon they'll come back.

    In hcl 1 I got everything I wanted in a few weeks and came back to the nornal servers.

    Its just the hard shock of everyone moving over in 1 day and taking months to trickle back.

    Give it a little time and it will get easier.

  2. #62
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I have suggested ways where the population can be condensed on the normal servers, such as server merges and cross server grouping. These get shouted down in the same community you are referring to here. If they dont want a solution that condenses the population, its their fault they play alone.
    I don't know if this occurred to you, but "the community" doesn't have one singular opinion on how to deal with... well, anything.

    Some people want the servers to be condensed. Some people don't want the servers to be condensed. Some people want the servers to be condensed, but don't want the negative side effects (loss of guilds, etc) and/or don't trust SSG to be able to handle the process.

    That doesn't mean anyone "deserves" to play on a deserted server or that it's "their fault" that their server is suddenly so much more empty than it already was. ESPECIALLY since SSG has been completely silent on the idea of server merges for years and years now and is incredibly unlikely to make it happen even if the player base were overwhelmingly in favor of making it happen. Players can have opinions on what should/shouldn't be done to have more grouping opportunities, but it's ultimately up to SSG to make the decisions on what gets done.
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  3. #63
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Default Oh My ... Not Again

    I remember after just 3-4 days of DDO going live back in March 2006 several players were saying this game will not last a year. Well that is a very long year it seems.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The idea that I somehow want people FORCED into helping me isnt just a regular stretch as far as terrible arguments are concerned. Its a Street Fighter 2 Dhalsim Yoga stretch. People choose to play HC on their own desire. No one is forced to do anything.

    I have suggested ways where the population can be condensed on the normal servers, such as server merges and cross server grouping. These get shouted down in the same community you are referring to here. If they dont want a solution that condenses the population, its their fault they play alone.
    If you're against the idea of HCL because you feel it detracts too much from Live play, then you're essentially saying that HCL should be closed down so people have no choice but to be on Live so you can group with them, that's the implication.

    Any "solution" that makes one person change their gameplay so that another person is better served by them is similarly bad. Server merge is an example of that. Cross server grouping would be fine, I never see anyone "shout down" that idea, and its usually the counterproposal from those who are against server merges.

  5. #65
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    At least for we lowly Premium players.

    I endured the 1st season of 3 months dead servers from mid August through mid November.

    I honestly don't know if I can stomach it again, and so soon after the 1st. With the holidays, I didn't play as much as I normally do or would have liked. Now mid February we're kicking off another 3 month VIP only nonsense leaving Premium players to solo on the main servers.

    Combine that with the nerfs of U45, and the horribly limited BtC storage space, and I think I'm nearing the end of my DDO career. This isn't a threat, or even a rage quit. I'm simply stating the reality of the situation as it currently stands.

    I'd gladly spend DDO points to unlock HC server. I will not be resubbing to avoid a ghost town.
    I was doing racials while this was happening the first time but now I'm caught with 14 ADQ completions and I want to hit 20 so I'm stuck
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  6. #66
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    If you're against the idea of HCL because you feel it detracts too much from Live play, then you're essentially saying that HCL should be closed down so people have no choice but to be on Live so you can group with them, that's the implication.

    Any "solution" that makes one person change their gameplay so that another person is better served by them is similarly bad. Server merge is an example of that. Cross server grouping would be fine, I never see anyone "shout down" that idea, and its usually the counterproposal from those who are against server merges.
    I think he is trying to say that in a game with an already thin playerbase and way too much gatekeeping, splitting it even more is short-sighted.
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  7. #67
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I don't know if this occurred to you, but "the community" doesn't have one singular opinion on how to deal with... well, anything.

    Some people want the servers to be condensed. Some people don't want the servers to be condensed. Some people want the servers to be condensed, but don't want the negative side effects (loss of guilds, etc) and/or don't trust SSG to be able to handle the process.

    That doesn't mean anyone "deserves" to play on a deserted server or that it's "their fault" that their server is suddenly so much more empty than it already was. ESPECIALLY since SSG has been completely silent on the idea of server merges for years and years now and is incredibly unlikely to make it happen even if the player base were overwhelmingly in favor of making it happen. Players can have opinions on what should/shouldn't be done to have more grouping opportunities, but it's ultimately up to SSG to make the decisions on what gets done.
    They know who they are. When the same people complain about ghost town servers yet shout down any and all suggestions for condensing the population on less servers, it is a direct contradiction in logic.

    In a p2w monetizing model, the company will continue to do those HC events as the way it makes money (like many p2w aspects) is not tethered to headcount in a linear fashion. The majority of the players are not the ones doing the majority of the funding. The best thing those who dont participate in HC or even VIP could ask for is less servers with more people on each. The idea people will lose their guilds and that theres no solution for that is a myth. There have been YEARS to figure out all the semantics.
    Last edited by Chai; 02-20-2020 at 09:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  8. #68
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    I tried it yesterday. Got ro lev 5. For the most part, people are helpful and call out traps. Somebody should really point out quests to avoid though. Honestly traps are worse than mobs.

    Anyway, i flipped back to khyber after I died and you could tell the lack of LFMs. There was one epic, which i joined, but thats it. The Hardcore server had tons of LFMs. Whether SSG realizes it or not, we all want more pops on our servers, not just HCL.

  9. #69
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Server merge thread happens and 2/3rds of the people are for it
    Server merge thread happens and 2/3rds of the people are against it

    Which of these scenarios do you think is more convincing that the community favors server merges?

    Its been needed for quite some time now, and yet it hasnt happened. Having that level of divisiveness on something so elementary in the community doesnt help. When the same people complain about ghost town servers yet shout down any and all suggestions for condensing the population on less servers, it is a direct contradiction in logic.
    whenever I see server merge threads, I see 2/3 of the people saying that it's needed and 2/3 of the people saying they don't trust SSG to make it happen correctly.

    Because there's overlap between those two - people like me who think a server merge is needed, but don't trust SSG to make it happen correctly.


    I do think that a "free transfers now available to either Cannith or Orien, but no other servers" would be good because it would let people mass migrate if they choose without requiring people to give up their stuff if they don't choose.
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  10. #70
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    If you're against the idea of HCL because you feel it detracts too much from Live play, then you're essentially saying that HCL should be closed down so people have no choice but to be on Live so you can group with them, that's the implication.
    I havent said that. This whole "you want the game shut down" narrative is a straw man created by those who have no answer for the actual points made.

    What I did say is HC is the reality now as it makes money. Since we know the servers are even deader than normal during HC, it makes sense to condense the population onto less live servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Any "solution" that makes one person change their gameplay so that another person is better served by them is similarly bad. Server merge is an example of that. Cross server grouping would be fine, I never see anyone "shout down" that idea, and its usually the counterproposal from those who are against server merges.
    Server merge doesnt force any change on game play on anyone. You can still play with the same people you did before. All of these other myths (like we''ll lose all our guilds for instance) are resolvable by the company. It doesnt take 5+ years to figure out solutions for all of that.

    If you keep making these types of claims to shout down server merges, and gain a following doing so indicating to the company that many players dont want it to happen, and that continues to convince them not to do it, then you can enjoy your low pop live servers when HC happens, a minimum of 2x per year. This is the reality now. They are not going to forego HC as it makes money.
    Last edited by Chai; 02-20-2020 at 09:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  11. #71
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    whenever I see server merge threads, I see 2/3 of the people saying that it's needed and 2/3 of the people saying they don't trust SSG to make it happen correctly.

    Because there's overlap between those two - people like me who think a server merge is needed, but don't trust SSG to make it happen correctly.


    I do think that a "free transfers now available to either Cannith or Orien, but no other servers" would be good because it would let people mass migrate if they choose without requiring people to give up their stuff if they don't choose.
    That falls into the narrative of "forcing" people who choose not to transfer onto an even lower population server. These contradictions put ForumDDO™ into catch 22 stalemate, locking everything down in analysis paralysis making sure nothing ever gets done about the issue.

    So this issue continues to occur.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  12. #72
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    game time cards are sold in market if your not into subscriptions
    For years they haven't been here in Germany.

    They used to be available at shop, though. But that's long ago.
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  13. #73
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    That falls into the narrative of "forcing" people who choose not to transfer onto an even lower population server. These contradictions put ForumDDO™ into catch 22 stalemate, locking everything down in analysis paralysis making sure nothing ever gets done about the issue.

    So this issue continues to occur.
    I'll say it again so you don't forget.

    The DDO Forums don't determine SSG's policies.

    SSG determines SSG's policies.

    *SOMETIMES* they listen to feedback when it's overwhelming. If there's a mix, they continue to do whatever they had planned.


    This is ENTIRELY SSG's decision. The DDO Forums don't have the ability to "force" people to do much of anything aside from leave the DDO Forums because they want to get away from the toxic cesspool that these forums have been almost since the beginning.
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  14. #74
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I'll say it again so you don't forget.

    The DDO Forums don't determine SSG's policies.

    SSG determines SSG's policies.

    *SOMETIMES* they listen to feedback when it's overwhelming. If there's a mix, they continue to do whatever they had planned.


    This is ENTIRELY SSG's decision. The DDO Forums don't have the ability to "force" people to do much of anything aside from leave the DDO Forums because they want to get away from the toxic cesspool that these forums have been almost since the beginning.
    I recommend reading up on Agile development. You will see this argument that the community has no input (the 100% company fault position) evaporate.

    I dont forget the incorrect excuses people use when it contributes to making the game worse for the very same people. Im usually the one bringing them up later on when the contradiction occurs. In this instance that contradiction is those complaining about dropping server populations yet being against server merges. Again so YOU dont forget, this is not a reference to the entire community. They know who they are.
    Last edited by Chai; 02-20-2020 at 10:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  15. #75
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    I think he is trying to say that in a game with an already thin playerbase and way too much gatekeeping, splitting it even more is short-sighted.
    Yep.

    They put the blinders on and do it anyhow, because it makes money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  16. #76
    Community Member kanordog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    Basically, if hardcore wants folks like me to consider it, the gains from it must apply account-wide; ie. earn permanent past-life feats for my account.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    I was doing racials while this was happening the first time but now I'm caught with 14 ADQ completions and I want to hit 20 so I'm stuck

    Here is the problem you don't have on HCL, people with too much time on their hand just accumulated so much power that casuals can't keep up.
    THIS thins the population in reality. If I wanted to play on an other server than my regular I would have to join to r1 runs with a 28pts toon. And the game is not fun being carried through or frowned upon. (Nobody joins hard/normal runs so please don't start the "put your own LFM up argument")
    On HCL You have to play without past life feats or if there will be any not that much. That evens the playing field and the added excitement that you will lose your toon for good just makes the server enjoyable. I haven't had so much fun since 2013.


  17. #77
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I recommend reading up on Agile development. You will see this argument that the community has no input (the 100% company fault position) evaporate.

    I dont forget the incorrect excuses people use when it contributes to making the game worse for the very same people. Im usually the one bringing them up later on when the contradiction occurs. In this instance that contradiction is those complaining about dropping server populations yet being against server merges. Again so YOU dont forget, this is not a reference to the entire community. They know who they are.
    It's pretty clear that SSG's development is not Agile in any way.
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  18. #78
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    Waterfall, agile, monkeys on keyboards. I'd be happy with competent.

    HCL2, 4-6 lfms for my level range during my entire session last night. Gland before HCL2 even opened 0-1 lfms for my level range.

    The long beeping sound you hear is not due to server pop on Gland declining, it is because it flat-lined before HCL2 went live. At some point it's not going to matter if guilds get lost in a merge because there won't be many people left in the guild anyhow.

  19. #79
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    It's pretty clear that SSG's development is not Agile in any way.
    This view isnt held by anyone objective.

    Just in U45:
    People scream for nerfs, and they get them.
    People asked for PS to be reverted and got it.
    People asked for mount suppression and got it.
    People asked for THF changes and FINALLY got it. (whether they liked it or not doesnt make it "not agile" - it was asked for and received).

    Its also pretty clear they are using something close to the MVP model. Can it be shipped? Ship it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  20. #80
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    3 months on, 3 months off, 3 months on again, 3 months off again.

    That's the pattern they've set themselves up for and that's too often if you ask me.

    Would have been so much better as an annual event.

    Spice the year up with other different events / challenges by all means to keep a bit of novelty going.

    But repeating the same thing so soon is a mistake in my opinion.

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