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  1. #61
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Imagine designing new animations for things, rather than reusing old, unrelated ones.

    The "tome reading" animation would be cool (but would require more than 2 seconds of work so that's impossible) though at this point I'd settle for no animation at all if it meant not waiting 9 seconds to cast a 4 second spell.

  2. #62
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Ok...no, it isn't.
    Not one person dropped $130 on the Sharn Maxi-bundle for the teleport stone. Nobody.
    Hi. I am actually a person, and not a nobody. Nice to meet you.

    Now, while the boarding pass wasn't the only reason why I bought the higher-priced bundle, it was a factor in that choice. I very much enjoy and value convenience items, and the Ravenloft Bottle has been gold since I got it. After seeing how handy it and the Pass were on the HC server for the really dedicated, I saw this change/nerf/alteration/clarification (whatever you want to call it) from a mile off. I played on HC for the fun of it, so I just put those items in the bank to avoid temptation. But, I am a person who paid for those bundles because they contained the convenience item and the others did not.

    They're less convenient today, and I feel like my dollars invested in the item has diminished. Not vanished - it's still usable and faster than the alternatives. And since I never nibbled at it as an Escape Button, I don't feel like I lost out on that aspect of it. But, it was changed to be worse than it was - and as the person who spent money on it this isn't a great change for me. And as a person who will be making purchasing decisions like this in the future, I will remember. I won't make any hyperbolic declarations of Never Spending A Dime On DDO Again!, but this whatever-it-was will loom large the next time I am looking at bundles and deciding how far to open the pocket book.


    Again, it was so nice to meet you!
    Last edited by Memnir; 02-17-2020 at 01:18 AM.
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  3. #63
    Community Member Graskitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm limited to animations that have spellcasting hooks in them. Usage Device - the shoe tying animation it had while it was a 10s induction item upon launch of Sharn - is missing some parts that will actually fire off the spell, and my guess is that Read Tome is similarly nonfunctional in this scenario.

    darn.


    I do not mind the induction time for these items, but what I really would have liked to see is an item like a boarding pass that could be fed other transport items like the bottle of mist and key to eveningstar to make it like a keychain.

    can we get something like that as an exclusive pre-order incentive for the feywild expansion? It can be a toadstool, and it makes a nibbling animation that will deliriously transport you to the location of your dreams. !!!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    As someone who spends $30,000/year on DDO your opinion on what we spend our money on is irrelevant. You're the whale ruining DDO, you don't care about the boarding pass nerf because you'll just buy a stack of teleport rods or just make a new character, gold roll them as high as you want and buy new tomes. It's not that we paid money for an exploit, it's that you paid money to win and you want to be able to outspend us. You're the one without values, I won't tell you to get out of DDO though because it's essentially your game now. Hope the devs can milk enough out of you to pay their bills.
    Thats the whale that keeps the servers turned on, show some respect, these whales that are "ruining" the game ( spoiler alert they are not) is the reason the game remains profitable and running. without them the game would have died long ago

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Hi. I am actually a person, and not a nobody. Nice to meet you.

    Now, while the boarding pass wasn't the only reason why I bought the higher-priced bundle, it was a factor in that choice. I very much enjoy and value convenience items, and the Ravenloft Bottle has been gold since I got it. After seeing how handy it and the Pass were on the HC server for the really dedicated, I saw this change/nerf/alteration/clarification (whatever you want to call it) from a mile off. I played on HC for the fun of it, so I just put those items in the bank to avoid temptation. But, I am a person who paid for those bundles because they contained the convenience item and the others did not.

    They're less convenient today, and I feel like my dollars invested in the item has diminished. Not vanished - it's still usable and faster than the alternatives. And since I never nibbled at it as an Escape Button, I don't feel like I lost out on that aspect of it. But, it was changed to be worse than it was - and as the person who spent money on it this isn't a great change for me. And as a person who will be making purchasing decisions like this in the future, I will remember. I won't make any hyperbolic declarations of Never Spending A Dime On DDO Again!, but this whatever-it-was will loom large the next time I am looking at bundles and deciding how far to open the pocket book.


    Again, it was so nice to meet you!
    Hi! nice to meet you too! I plan on getting the super fan bundles of both sharn and ravenloft cause of the bundled iconics and special appearance items, seems more value for my buck, the boarding pass was actually an item i overlooked in the list of stuff, thought it was like the eberon and forgotten realms login button so was just icing on the cake for me. I am curious would this change prevent you from buying this pack at this level if you were looking to buy it now?

  6. #66
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    i personally dont care about the boarding pass because I dont have one. But what I dont like is that some of the nerfs in this update being based on the hardcore server, which I also dont play. In other words they are making life more difficult for everyone because of cheaters on the hardcore server? Just do away with the nerfs, and the hardcore server, or just nerf the hardcore server.

  7. #67
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisulven7 View Post
    Exploits can't be nerfed.

    Because they are exploits.



    But I'm surprised there is so little shame about it. Nobody has any values any more blah blah and get off my lawn!

    And if you paid money for what should have been obvious as exploit? LOL. Tom Brady has all these extra football inflators and nowhere to sell them.
    So those of us that didn't use it as an exploit, ie: people not on HCL, should be ashamed?
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  8. #68
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Hi. I am actually a person, and not a nobody. Nice to meet you.

    Now, while the boarding pass wasn't the only reason why I bought the higher-priced bundle, it was a factor in that choice. I very much enjoy and value convenience items, and the Ravenloft Bottle has been gold since I got it. After seeing how handy it and the Pass were on the HC server for the really dedicated, I saw this change/nerf/alteration/clarification (whatever you want to call it) from a mile off. I played on HC for the fun of it, so I just put those items in the bank to avoid temptation. But, I am a person who paid for those bundles because they contained the convenience item and the others did not.

    They're less convenient today, and I feel like my dollars invested in the item has diminished. Not vanished - it's still usable and faster than the alternatives. And since I never nibbled at it as an Escape Button, I don't feel like I lost out on that aspect of it. But, it was changed to be worse than it was - and as the person who spent money on it this isn't a great change for me. And as a person who will be making purchasing decisions like this in the future, I will remember. I won't make any hyperbolic declarations of Never Spending A Dime On DDO Again!, but this whatever-it-was will loom large the next time I am looking at bundles and deciding how far to open the pocket book.


    Again, it was so nice to meet you!
    Pretty much the boat I'm in. Not happy about changes like this at all. Not because I cannot "get out of jail free" but because when I am doing mundane stuff in game, I like my travel to be fast. A few of us were talking about this yesterday, and likely the AP tome across my whole account was worth it, but I still don't like waiting in game for nothing.
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  9. #69
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm limited to animations that have spellcasting hooks in them. Usage Device - the shoe tying animation it had while it was a 10s induction item upon launch of Sharn - is missing some parts that will actually fire off the spell, and my guess is that Read Tome is similarly nonfunctional in this scenario.
    Thanks for looking into this btw. I railed hard against the initial change on the preview threads, and felt the halved induction timer was a fair trade.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Ok...no, it isn't.

    Not one person dropped $130 on the Sharn Maxi-bundle for the teleport stone. Nobody. Especially as when the thing was announced there was no reason at all to think it would be any different from the Ravenloft bottle or Eveningstar Key.
    Right, noone expected it to be an instant cast. Everyone bought it expecting it to have the same "tying your shoes" delay as the other options.

    The current patch seems to have it doing a conjuration spell animation which is what's so slow.

  11. #71
    Community Member ahpook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    ...
    They're less convenient today,
    ...
    Nobody wants to remember that they are also more convenient than when they were first released. When first released they only took you to one spot and they had a invocation timer the same as bottle of mist. They then added more locations to the pass to make it more convenient (and accidentally lost the invocation timer). But so many people would rather rip on the devs for petty **** I guess because that is more fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Again, it was so nice to meet you!
    With all due respect Mem, you didn't spend $130 on the pass (as you admit) so you didn't counter the claim. Your snark is not really warranted.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    That's wild. What race/gender? Sounds like the spellcasting animation is just all kinds of messed up.
    Female gnome takes just shy of 10 seconds to get to the cut screen. But I suspect this is not related to race or gender. It strikes me as more related to not even having tried it to see if it works before releasing it.

    Might I suggest a solution that would make almost everybody very happy? Require an induction bar inside dungeons, and no induction bar in public. The tech for that already exists in places. FVS wings regenerate faster in public instances. Logging out takes much longer in a dungeon than in public. You guys need a good will win here. The discontent after update 45 is palpable in game.

  13. #73
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahpook View Post
    With all due respect Mem, you didn't spend $130 on the pass (as you admit) so you didn't counter the claim. Your snark is not really warranted.
    He spent 130$ and is dissatisfied with a change to something that money purchased. I'd say the snark is warranted.

    At my house we spent 260$ (hubby bought them as a surprise present for the both of us). I happen to not be sussed about a few seconds delay but I wasn't upset about having to remount outside a tavern either (other discussion entirely). However, if I was dissatisfied with a change after money had been spent you can bet there would be snark, overflowing snark, a plethora of snark even.

    While its unlikely anyone bought the expensive package just for the teleport item, as Memnir said, it was part of his purchasing decision. I'm sure it was a factor in many, many people's purchasing decisions and that is the real crux. There was a change made to an item that many, many people purchased and that item has been made much less convenient in (some of) their estimation. I support their right to complain about it with or without snark.

    Its not a good idea to make anyone less happy about buying the supercalifragilisticexpialidocious edition. Especially, not if they want to keep raising the price each expansion.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    So those of us that didn't use it as an exploit, ie: people not on HCL, should be ashamed?
    I would just chalk this up to, "We can't have nice things... because others will figure out how to use them in interesting ways"

    Only really used the pass maybe once or twice a session, so adding 8-9s per usage is trivial time to me in the grand scheme. I had greater than a half hour pass between an appetizer and an entree yesterday without losing my ****, so I'll survive (or I've been conditioned by the Ekey not to care).

  15. #75
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisulven7 View Post
    Exploits can't be nerfed.

    Because they are exploits.



    But I'm surprised there is so little shame about it. Nobody has any values any more blah blah and get off my lawn!

    And if you paid money for what should have been obvious as exploit? LOL. Tom Brady has all these extra football inflators and nowhere to sell them.
    I'd believe that it was a correction to an exploit if SSG weren't still selling single use get-out-of-death-free items in the DDO store.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    Imagine designing new animations for things, rather than reusing old, unrelated ones.
    We do that all the time. Alchemist got like 10 new animation sets, iirc, and we just now remade 2HF. At the time, though, when I was fixing this bug, I didn't want to add more animation tasks... but maybe FreeShrugs has time now? :P either way I can try and snag a shorter animation, no problemo.

    Quote Originally Posted by bracelet View Post
    Female gnome takes just shy of 10 seconds to get to the cut screen. But I suspect this is not related to race or gender. It strikes me as more related to not even having tried it to see if it works before releasing it.
    I have no idea how you think I managed to make the first induction spell in DDO ever without testing it in game :P if you really think I bent the rules this severely in one shot and then didn't follow up and it still actually worked - well you know what, that's a pretty severe compliment. Hmmmm maybe I should keep going on my missile ricochet experiments, too

    Quote Originally Posted by bracelet View Post
    The tech for that already exists in places. FVS wings regenerate faster in public instances. Logging out takes much longer in a dungeon than in public.
    This is absolutely not how induction properties work in the slightest. These three things are completely unrelated. A Spell is an Action which needs to land on a Deliver phase to actually deploy the onspellcast effects (in this case, the appropriate teleport effect) and is very different from a Log Out call or a script that queries the area file and counts down until a charge is restored.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahpook View Post
    Nobody wants to remember that they are also more convenient than when they were first released. When first released they only took you to one spot and they had a invocation timer the same as bottle of mist. They then added more locations to the pass to make it more convenient (and accidentally lost the invocation timer).
    This is absolutely on my shoulders, too :P I suppose the joke is on me for trying to make something cooler. I was trying to add value to an item many players regarded as lackluster... and in the process broke the induction time trying to make a induction spell - something that I thought was impossible but apparently has been possible this whole time. Who knew? :)
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I'd believe that it was a correction to an exploit if SSG weren't still selling single use get-out-of-death-free items in the DDO store.
    Indeed.... and exploiting what? Dying out of hardcore server is not a big deal - I've never seen anyone using teleport of any kind to get out dying, especially not since you can't get back in on reaper. So what exploit are we talking about here?

    This change is purely based on hardcore server issues, as I see it.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Indeed.... and exploiting what? Dying out of hardcore server is not a big deal - I've never seen anyone using teleport of any kind to get out dying, especially not since you can't get back in on reaper. So what exploit are we talking about here?

    This change is purely based on hardcore server issues, as I see it.
    It's a bugfix.

    Changing the original item to make it teleport somewhere worth getting to (the first version was very lackluster given airships go directly to Sharn, you see) created a bug which removed the original timer.
    Not gamebreaking enough to warrant immediate return to the item's original functionality, but still, a bug made with recent code, which makes it much easier to squish before it gets old, tangles with old spaghetti code, makes a pact with Cthulhu and brings forth its brethren of the deep.

    A bug which made people use the item in an unintended manner for a while, which is considered an exploit, but was tolerated. Using that item in an unintended manner wasn't punished as much as other exploits might have been, probably for the same reasons it wasn't patched in immediately and put on a high priority list - it wasn't gamebreaking.

    I like it when non-gamebreaking bugs get fixed.
    I'm sure there's ladders out there that still do the old ladder hitching bug, but many of those got done did. There's still quests (looking at YOU, Tangleroot!) that have optionals not mention the enemy names. I can live with them existing. I won't complain when they're fixed.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have no idea how you think I managed to make the first induction spell in DDO ever without testing it in game :P if you really think I bent the rules this severely in one shot and then didn't follow up and it still actually worked - well you know what, that's a pretty severe compliment. Hmmmm maybe I should keep going on my missile ricochet experiments, too
    I am sure you did a fine job of that. But it still takes 10 seconds to do what was supposed to happen in 4. I could have made the same mistake though. Delighted to get it working, but then forgetting to actually time it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is absolutely not how induction properties work in the slightest. These three things are completely unrelated. A Spell is an Action which needs to land on a Deliver phase to actually deploy the onspellcast effects (in this case, the appropriate teleport effect) and is very different from a Log Out call or a script that queries the area file and counts down until a charge is restored.
    Regardless of how it is implemented, you are still able to distinguish public from private. This could be a starting point to changing the behavior based on where the spell is invoked. Perhaps the code that determines whether a certain spell can be cast in public or not would have been a better example.

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