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  1. #41
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    So, question. Would you like there to never be a high single target ranged build to ever exist? When your AoE damage is identical to your single target damage for an entire archetype of play, because it is never worth it to change stances, is that ok? I am not saying that ranged was OP, divine melees were not OP yet the divine might change needed to happen. This is the same thing.
    On my melee, my single target damage IS the same, I'm not seeing an actual point there. Why can't ranged do it, with the huge feat tax they have to pay?
    On our ranged casters, if my spell hits one target or 72, my damage doesn't change. Should it? According to this idea, it should.
    STR Divine builds lost so much our FvS can't even pull levers now, what change in there was "needed"? He lost around 25 STR. Sure, damage is similar, but functionality isn't.

    If the idea that IPS has existed for over a decade, only just NOW gets people's panties in a knot, is a concern... Drop it entirely, and make a series of THF-style ranged feats, for Shoot-through.

    No prereqs, just the same.... 4 feats. Would replace dodge, precision, etc etc, and totally take the place of the current setup people seem to be whining over.
    Similar end result, goes through X number of mobs. No toggle, no (hey a ranger can shoot rhough 47 monsters lying BS people keep spouting). Just a "ranged cleave".
    Last edited by DRoark; 02-14-2020 at 11:48 AM.
    NO MORE MONEY UNTIL IPS NERF RETRACTED... Ranged of the World Unite!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Lord_Mary View Post
    I think some of the above posts are a stellar example of how the anniversary gift was a cleverly spun giant nerf to the game.
    Technically they haven't told us what the "gift" IS yet, just smugly confirmed that "there will be one" because SSG likes to troll the community instead of getting us excited. That said I definitely agree with everything you're saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Lord_Mary View Post
    Unlike LOTRO, which really sets the mark for festivals and events, over here in DDO we just get crapped on.
    Yeah I'd say thats pretty accurate. Most of our events are just massive grind-fests where only the privileged few who play DDO as a full-time job get good rewards. The Anniversary party event is the highlight of the year, where dozens of hours of grinding can earn you... stuff that's worse than lootgen. The two items from it that were remotely useful have been nerfed into oblivion, and while some of the stuff was moderately good for gearing iconics fresh out the gate, it's been completely supplanted by Sharn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Lord_Mary View Post
    No anniversary reward for being committed to and playing this game since 2006? Just a bunch of nerfs?
    The reward will, in all likelihood, be another cosmetic. And the fact is, no matter how pretty you make that cosmetic, its still completely useless. In a game with as massive and glaring of inventory problems as DDO has, that's the same as nothing. Other games give out USEFUL rewards. DDO used to give out sueful rewards. Lately? We get nothing.

    I'd say lower your expectations, but the Kola Superdeep Borehole only made it to 7.619 miles down.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Lord_Mary View Post
    I stand by my decision to boycott Hardcore Season 2 - My guild ship cargo hold on Sarlona looks like a deserted DMV, my inquisitive is now a useless storage character, and there's a birthday party where I can run to the same tired loot from last year.
    I skipped HCL1 due to complete lack of interest, but I support your boycott of season 2. Granted, I wasn't going to set foot on that server in the first place, its another example of my above grip where only the super-grinders get anything worthwhile AND the whole concept is a cruel mockery of this thing called "fun".


    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Lord_Mary View Post
    Friends of mine who used to play this game, asked, 'what did they do for the anniversary?' I said 'Well, we got a new class and a bunch of nerfs to everything, oh and they made catacombs epic, but I think they'd have done that anyway.'

    They responded - 'glad I left.'
    Yep.

    People rage-quit every day. But the devs keep being smug [community guidelines violation]'s.

  3. #43
    Founder salmag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    So, question. Would you like there to never be a high single target ranged build to ever exist? When your AoE damage is identical to your single target damage for an entire archetype of play, because it is never worth it to change stances, is that ok? I am not saying that ranged was OP, divine melees were not OP yet the divine might change needed to happen. This is the same thing.
    The problem with the argument you're implying is that you are making the assumption all the mobs just line up waiting for the Archer to take them all down. This doesn't happen. Majority of the time, you will get 2-3 mobs before they start their side jumps out of the way or just never line up to begin with.

    What happens when you take down the last mob before the ones in front? You have to re-target. By that time, the enemy is on top of you and you have to kite. This upsets the melee characters you are running with more than just killing them.

    Back on topic:

    The best anniversary gift should be scrapping the Range combat changes, then work on the broken Inquisitive tree only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thar
    This year's anniversary gift will be a box providing the option to get any of the rare weapons that ddo has nerf'd to uselessness in the past.

    wounding of puncturing rapier.
    ratcatcher
    banishing anything
    smiting anything
    vorpal insta killer (pre 1000 hp garbage. what has 1000 hps nowadays?)
    etc..
    Imagine what the game would be like today if they brought back the original mechanics for Wounding of Puncturing, Banishing, Smiting and Vorpal. Melee might be happy...
    THANK YOU SO MUCH

  4. #44
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    On my melee, my single target damage IS the same, I'm not seeing an actual point there. Why can't ranged do it, with the huge feat tax they have to pay?
    On our ranged casters, if my spell hits one target or 72, my damage doesn't change. Should it? According to this idea, it should.
    STR Divine builds lost so much our FvS can't even pull levers now, what change in there was "needed"? He lost around 25 STR. Sure, damage is similar, but functionality isn't.

    If the idea that IPS has existed for over a decade, only just NOW gets people's panties in a knot, is a concern... Drop it entirely, and make a series of THF-style ranged feats, for Shoot-through.

    No prereqs, just the same.... 4 feats. Would replace dodge, precision, etc etc, and totally take the place of the current setup people seem to be whining over.
    Similar end result, goes through X number of mobs. No toggle, no (hey a ranger can shoot rhough 47 monsters lying BS people keep spouting). Just a "ranged cleave".
    So, you think THF build do the exact same single target DPS as TWH builds? That is surprising and would love to see your absolutely bonkers secret THF build that achieves this. Also, how did you make your AoE spells deal the same damage as spells like iceberg or thunderstroke?

  5. #45
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    So, you think THF build do the exact same single target DPS as TWH builds? That is surprising and would love to see your absolutely bonkers secret THF build that achieves this. Also, how did you make your AoE spells deal the same damage as spells like iceberg or thunderstroke?
    Didn't mention TWF at all, why would you assume I trained multiple melee styles? Reading is hard. Bows have one damage, not "regular arrow", and "big-freakin-arrow".

    I also didn't compare different spells, which is an irrelevent argument. I stated whether or not I hit one target or 72, my damage doesn't drop (which is true for all AOE spells),
    no more than IPS damage drops if it hits more than one target. IPS has always been the same way, rangers are paying a feat tax to get the ability to do an LOE attack.

    If the IPS-nerf logic was applied to everything, every SPELL would have two versions, "Tiny Fireball" for regular single target damage, and a toggle for "AOE Fireball" (-20%) damage,
    and casters would have to spend multiple feats to BUY the skill to hit more than one target, or else their spell would pass through a group and only fireball the guy they were aiming at.

    I'd actually find that funny.
    NO MORE MONEY UNTIL IPS NERF RETRACTED... Ranged of the World Unite!

  6. #46
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    Didn't mention TWF at all, why would you assume I trained multiple melee styles? Reading is hard.
    TWF is the predominant single target melee style. Bows have multiple combat style stances. You stated you could auto attack multiple people as a melee with no loss of damage. Therefore, the only fighting style which can hit multiple people at once clearly must not lose any single target damage when compared to other styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    Bows have one damage, not "regular arrow", and "big-freakin-arrow".
    Except they do. ranged combat is broken down based on active stance. With each ranged combat stance focusing on a single damage type. The problem is that the THF equivalent, IPS, had no noticeable damage loss when compared to the TWF equivalent, Archer's Focus. There is currently no stance which is equivalent to SWF, something that could help either side, clear and bossing, without being as good as the specialized form which is something that should change, but that is another topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    I also didn't compare different spells, which is an irrelevent argument. I stated whether or not I hit one target or 72, my damage doesn't drop (which is true for all AOE spells),
    no more than IPS damage drops if it hits more than one target. IPS has always been the same way, rangers are paying a feat tax to get the ability to do an LOE attack.

    If the IPS-nerf logic was applied to everything, every SPELL would have two versions, "Tiny Fireball" for regular single target damage, and a toggle for "AOE Fireball" (-20%) damage,
    and casters would have to spend multiple feats to BUY the skill to hit more than one target, or else their spell would pass through a group and only fireball the guy they were aiming at.

    I'd actually find that funny.
    Currently, there are AoE spells and Single target spells, why compare an AoE spell damage to the same spell's damage in single target? By that metric, when you hit a boss in your IPS you are still taking that damage penalty because you are using the wrong thing, just like how a spellcaster would. Imagine if there was a feat that could make your single target spells affect an area with only a 20% damage penalty that could be toggled out of whenever you needed to do single target damage. Fireball would be obsolete immediately and would only be used to open doors.

  7. #47
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    any word on it? Hopefully something cool and useful? Or are we getting another useless cosmetic?
    A free ratcatcher. XD
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  8. #48
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    Currently, there are AoE spells and Single target spells, why compare an AoE spell damage to the same spell's damage in single target? By that metric, when you hit a boss in your IPS you are still taking that damage penalty because you are using the wrong thing, just like how a spellcaster would. Imagine if there was a feat that could make your single target spells affect an area with only a 20% damage penalty that could be toggled out of whenever you needed to do single target damage. Fireball would be obsolete immediately and would only be used to open doors.

    THF changed. There's literally no difference in my single target and multi-target anymore. I'm guessing you don't play one.

    My main spell on my current toon is a cone. It's my highest damage spell, and as I said before, there's ZERO difference. Not everyone has Iceburg, or really high single-target anything.
    Ranged attacks generally do less damage than even an average AOE spell. Our caster is a prime example, we're not even CLOSE to the damage one fireball pops out, even in "single target mode".

    I will fully support any petition you want to make, to allow Iceburg to pass through multiple targets, if you want to pay a 4-feat tax. Then you can deal with lining up mobs as well.
    IPS has never been an AOE, it's an LOE. If you want that mechanic on spells, I will gladly hand it to you with a smile and actually cheer you on casting Iceburgs (and laughing watching you run
    in circles to line anything up).

    I'd like exploding arrows though, for 0 feat cost, so I don't have to line up anything, and get full damage.
    NO MORE MONEY UNTIL IPS NERF RETRACTED... Ranged of the World Unite!

  9. #49
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    THF changed. There's literally no difference in my single target and multi-target anymore. I'm guessing you don't play one.
    Comparing all of the ranged styles to a single melee style is disingenuous.

    IPS vs new THF

    -Both can hit multiple enemies if you line it up right
    -They both have the same damage when hitting 1 person or 3

    Ranged vs Melee

    -Both can hit multiple enemies if you line it up right and grab the feats dedicated to it,but...
    -Melee cannot change fighting styles mid-combat, meaning that their single target damage suffers if they choose to gain AoE, relative to the other melee fighting style options.

    This allows melee builds to specialize in either single target (TWF), AoE (THF) or a mix (SWF)

    Ranged has similar ability to specialize, however this CAN be done on the fly, but was completely ignored due to a negligible difference in damage difference between the two stances. The IPS change introduced an actual reason to actively change stances based on what you are doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    My main spell on my current toon is a cone. It's my highest damage spell, and as I said before, there's ZERO difference. Not everyone has Iceburg, or really high single-target anything.
    Ranged attacks generally do less damage than even an average AOE spell. Our caster is a prime example, we're not even CLOSE to the damage one fireball pops out, even in "single target mode".
    In this case you specifically chose to specialize in AoE damage. The fact that you chose to not have an single target skill is a choice you made, similar to how THF builds have to chose to have subpar single target damage. Also, yes, casters do more damage of all types compared to ranged or melee. You must first balance the styles within a school of play (caster, melee and ranged) before you attempt to balance them against each other. The changes in U45 did not appear to address school of play balance, but to set some subshools in a good spot relative to the other subschools in that school.

  10. #50
    Founder salmag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    I will fully support any petition you want to make, to allow Iceburg to pass through multiple targets, if you want to pay a 4-feat tax. Then you can deal with lining up mobs as well.
    IPS has never been an AOE, it's an LOE. If you want that mechanic on spells, I will gladly hand it to you with a smile and actually cheer you on casting Iceburgs (and laughing watching you run
    in circles to line anything up).

    I'd like exploding arrows though, for 0 feat cost, so I don't have to line up anything, and get full damage.
    There already are several LOE spells that do just that. I don't want to mention them because they'll get the same nerf as IPS...

    It's funny to watch the mobs dodge my caster the same way the mobs dodge my Archer...
    THANK YOU SO MUCH

  11. #51
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Eh, at least the IPS nerf freed up a feat slot that was previously occupied by a MUST HAVE feat for ranged classes. Actually, it eliminated two if you don't bother taking PS either. I'm really not a fan of MUST HAVE feats. Kills build diversity.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    Eh, at least the IPS nerf freed up a feat slot that was previously occupied by a MUST HAVE feat for ranged classes. Actually, it eliminated two if you don't bother taking PS either. I'm really not a fan of MUST HAVE feats. Kills build diversity.
    Actually I never had IPS on any of my ranged builds before. In fact I only speced into it when I heard it was getting nerfed, just to see what all the fuss was about. Granted, that's not claiming any of my ranged characters were GOOD........

  13. #53
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    Actually I never had IPS on any of my ranged builds before. In fact I only speced into it when I heard it was getting nerfed, just to see what all the fuss was about. Granted, that's not claiming any of my ranged characters were GOOD........
    Same. I run mostly ranged builds and never really spec'd for IPS until last year when a guildie insisted it was a MUST HAVE. It definitely made clearing trash faster (And still does to an extent) and I stuck with it after trying it. But giving up those feat slots for it has always been kind of painful and getting them back again without feeling like I'm missing out is nice.

  14. #54
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    We do have a free anniversary gift set for this year, and hopefully people will like it. Expect it as we get closer to the anniversary date of February 28th.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
    Follow DDO on: Facebook Twitter Pinterest
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    Hello from Standing Stone Games! Facebook Twitter
    For Support: https://help.standingstonegames.com



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxis View Post
    Same. I run mostly ranged builds and never really spec'd for IPS until last year when a guildie insisted it was a MUST HAVE. It definitely made clearing trash faster (And still does to an extent) and I stuck with it after trying it. But giving up those feat slots for it has always been kind of painful and getting them back again without feeling like I'm missing out is nice.
    Same experience. Cleared trash faster, but didn't see an over-all spike in DPS. Since 80% of my game play is insistently farming for loot, that's helpful - except I can clear trash a hundred times faster on my fire sorc, so why break out the ranged guy?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We do have a free anniversary gift set for this year, and hopefully people will like it. Expect it as we get closer to the anniversary date of February 28th.
    The general consensus seems to be "people will like it if it's anything other than another cosmetic". Save, of course, for the segment of the player base to whom you could give a swift kick to the face and they would still say it was the best thing ever.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    The general consensus seems to be "people will like it if it's anything other than another cosmetic". Save, of course, for the segment of the player base to whom you could give a swift kick to the face and they would still say it was the best thing ever.
    Does it help or make it worse if I say that I think it's really cool?
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
    Follow DDO on: Facebook Twitter Pinterest
    Join us on Twitch!
    Hello from Standing Stone Games! Facebook Twitter
    For Support: https://help.standingstonegames.com



  18. #58
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    The general consensus seems to be "people will like it if it's anything other than another cosmetic". Save, of course, for the segment of the player base to whom you could give a swift kick to the face and they would still say it was the best thing ever.
    I'm guessing by the use of the word "set" that it's likely going to be a set of matching cosmetics. The problem with giving everyone cosmetics is that everyone has them, so no one feels unique using them. Still, I save mine. Maybe in a few years it'll be cool to sport them after everyone's forgotten about them.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Does it help or make it worse if I say that I think it's really cool?
    Is it a mini-Cordovan non-combat pet?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    Is it a mini-Cordovan non-combat pet?
    Even this would be better than another cosmetic :P

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