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  1. #21
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    Theres 20 players in each servers at any time and they all only play reaper.

    How a new player can play norm or hard?

    And all of those doing reaper are soloing.

  2. #22
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's a double edged sword really with no actual solution.

    People want to run each quest once to make the most favour+xp/minute. Most old vets can just solo r1 and they can do it faster if they don't wait for people to join. In some situations it's even worse to run in a group because of dungeon scaling. The aptly named 'heroic TR wheel'. Thus most of these LFMs are people hamstering their wheel and just looking for company, not for help.

    So unless you are in a guild or playing with friends, you'll never get a group for normal or hard. Heck, even the old favourite dailies are being ran at EE or R1 now because no matter how hard we try to explain to the devs, after a certain number of reaper points R1 becomes easier than EE and outside of certain raids, epic hard is a joke anyway.
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  3. #23
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    may they should not allow opening of r1 until completed elite .... normal ,hard.....
    this way all levels would be opening up.
    Do away with BB.< that's the cause

    and in order to pen the quest r1+ you have to complete it hard , elite 1st or something.
    even after a tr or as vip

    but that's not going to happen.

    best bet is to support the new player in raising and healing him while he pikes along
    trying to remember when you zerg past stuff he encounters it.

    it is better the new toon plays reaper with a healer either way let him bring one along of there is room
    better than having to rise 4 or 5 times let his healer do it

    he gets great xp points but virtually no experience paying the game.

    what is the solution?

  4. #24
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    your buddy can die 11x and you'll still get the bonus
    11 times or more…. (personal experience)
    Just make sure you die either in range of a shrine, or somwhere where your soulstone is accessible or you can get to the quiet spot for the raise.
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  5. #25
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    Give me max favor on normal then I will run normal.
    if not
    then I will have to do the run AGAIN later on elite to get the favor.
    so if you want to unlock favor awards, you really have no choice but to do elite.

    This WAS never a problem, until they added champions to hard and elite.
    There are a number of players that would like champion removed from hard and elite
    and restrict them to Reaper.

  6. #26
    Community Member Spl1tz's Avatar
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    Lately i have seen a surge of players on Cannith doing Hard and Elite...

    Would it help if new players were locked out of doing Reaper before having done a 3rd life?
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  7. #27
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    some tend to make it sound like having to run on normal or hard is a bad thing.
    I believe that thois is the problem with forum talk these days : EVERYONE SILENTLY assumes quests are run in Reaper difficulty. This assumption - or is it a prejudice ? - is so strong that normal mode isn't even called out nowadays. Everyone means Reaper in these forums. There's no doubt about that.

    Plus people who do nothing but Reaper difficulty have probably already begun badmouthing everything below that dificulty. Next step will probably like "you don't run Reaper ? Then you aren't a real mean" or "you are too weak, then", something like this. Badmouthing something goes that way.

    It is a fact that everyone here discusses Reaper difficulty, nothing else.
    Hence my satire : "@Devs : Delete normal and casual dificulties. No-one runs them anymore."
    "No, it doesn't say 'Lifeling' "

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by archest View Post
    Do away with BB.< that's the cause
    This was sort of done a while back but most players don't seem to realize. The whole streak dynamic is now gone so you wont lose any xp for running lower difficulties as if u run norm u will still get full xp 1st time u run the same quest on elite or reaper as you would have if you had run that 1st. This imo is one of the best changes the devs have made in recent times but it really needs a lil more publicity.

  9. #29
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The problem is multi-faceted: DDO has a relatively small player base which is fragmented across 8 servers (we'll pretend Wayfinder counts as a "real" server ), scattered across 30 character levels, with widely varying power between the first-life newbie vs the multi-TRed veteran at the exact same level, with 13 different difficulty settings (N/H/E, R1-10).

    Considering the already steep learning curve to DDO vs other MMOs, it's hardly surprising that new players have an incredibly hard time finding PUGs running quests at a difficulty they find acceptable. Too low and it's a boring cakewalk; too high and you're either piking or a soulstone in someone's backpack. Plus it's incredibly frustrating to be trying to learn a new quest but the veterans just zerg thru on autopilot. And you can't even count on everyone owning every quest pack.

    Not that I have a solution to this situation. Server merges would increase per-server populations, but given the lagginess of the current servers at times, I'm not sure making them bigger helps. Plus you still have all the other issues brought on by power creep etc. dividing players into the Haves and Have-Nots. Forming a static group or joining a newbie-friendly guild definitely helps...but first you have to find one that's recruiting. The hardcore server generated a lot of interest because everyone starts from a level playing field; but (A) it's VIP-only and (B) not everyone enjoys the roguelike permadeath mode, so it still only appeals to a subset of players.

    I rekindled my interest in DDO by starting over on a new server. But I don't mind soloing and I don't mind not raiding anymore. In a sense, I don't really care about the "MMO-" side of DDO anymore, or at least I got sick of where the long-term meta has been going for years, so I just gave up on it. But I'm a long-time player who (mostly) knows what he's doing. Newer players who actually want to play with others are perpetually thwarted by all the barriers to entry which DDO throws in their way.
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  10. #30
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    First lifers are perfectly able to run R1+. It won't be easy but its possible. There are players I know with first life toons with 90+ reaper points
    theres a big difference between a first life toon of a pro that has been playing for 10 years and a new player. gear + game knowledge

  11. #31
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    theres a big difference between a first life toon of a pro that has been playing for 10 years and a new player. gear + game knowledge



    Game knowledge and Ranged feats (+Left clicking the mouse)

  12. #32
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    Game knowledge and Ranged feats (+Left clicking the mouse)
    left clicking the mouse is a noob move, pros will just hold it down

  13. #33
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawel_San View Post
    from the perspective of Thelanis, (YMMV on other servers). NO.
    The reason why the answer is NO is that there are exactly 0 LFM's for normal or hard quests up, and if you put up even an elite LFM while leveling 95% of the time you get zero bites. That's from my experience while leveling my first life after coming back 5 months ago. Until I realized that I had to be running R1+ to get anyone to join my LFM
    I seriously wish Cannith had that issue. Almost everything I see is just "EN/EH daily repeats". I started out doing EE as a brand new player on my 1st day as a L1. I really don't see any point in the lower difficulties. I was pleasantly surprised that EE for a newbie was actually not the push-over I expected from other MMO's and I love that you can crank reaper way up into absurd difficulty.

    What I don't like is that reaper specifically punishes solo play. I can't get people to join reaper groups or rather not low-20's reapers. My ranged can solo r3+. My melee has a rough time in r1, but can do it. My ranged doesn't need much self-heal and thus wouldn't be helped by increasing it, but my melee do and hire AI is just plain too stupid to cover it.

    There are other changes I'd prefer that might fix the situation by increasing the potential group pool (I'd far FAR rather group), but the easy fix is to eliminate the self-heal penalty from reaper because honestly, EE is too easy. If I'm not dying every 3rd quest, it's not hard enough.


    BTW, from a meta-game standpoint and population spread, the goal should be to get newbies up to mid-reaper capable ASAP. The reason is that it's not healthy for either the vets or the newbies to have a small group pool. The ideal is that everyone is able to group with everyone else. The "old vet carries" situation we have now is boring for both vets and newbies alike when mixed together.

    One way to help is "account-wide completionist" feats. Earn it on one character, then all your characters have it. Another is bonuses for newbies in group and hefty bonuses for newbies themselves. But but, players would just make new chars to mule for bonuses! They wouldn't be able to make a bonus character due to account-wide progress and the bonuses should not apply to F2P. If they want to buy accounts for the bonus, let 'em.

  14. #34
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    Speaking as new(ish*) player I have some perspective on this:

    -First off, I can't solo elite or R1. I'm sure there are those that can, but the difficulty jump between Hard and Elite is just too huge. For me it mostly comes down to not having enough hit points/being under geared/etc. A few of my better characters can manage elite on certain quests, but by and large I just run epic-hard when soloing.

    -I also never see LFMs for anything under elite. When I post an LFM for something lower, I either get tells saying "i'll join if you run on reaper" or if its a chain the first thing people as is "can we do the next one on elite/R1?"

    -All that being said, two players with reasonably decent characters can *usually* 2-man on elite. Its tough, and depends on build(for example: when I'm at an under-geared stage of leveling like 26/27 yes I am completely useless). Pretty much any quest can be 3-manned by a party that isn't utterly hopeless.

    Deficiencies I see that need to be addressed:

    -Various "gear deserts", level-ranges where there's no good equipment available without ungodly amounts of farming**. Since I started playing I've taken 7 characters from lvl 20 to 30 first-life. At lvl 21 you have KotB items. Then starting around 24/25 they start not feeling powerful enough, and by 27 you're still mostly wearing lvl 15 sharn gear because the ONLY halfway decent loot is raid gear and you haven't started raiding yet because you're a new player. 27 tends to be the hardest level, Slavers gear at 28 helps, then at 29 the power jump is absurd.

    -Hit points. I'd have a much easier time surviving if I could get about 500 more HP. On a first-life character with tomes it's not easy. Currently my highest HP guy is a con-based dwarf barbarian. He has 85 CON and only 2268 hit points at lvl 30. I don't know how people get 5k HP but I suspect it involves liberal use of TR.

    -Drop rates. These are clearly bugged. There's no freaking way they're as high as the devs have them listed. What we need is some kind of mechanic like the raid runes so you don't need to spend months ransacking the same dungeon on elite to get a specific piece of supposedly common kit. It'd make it a **** of a lot easier for new players to get elite/reaper ready if they could get geared faster.

    **"without ungodly amounts of farming" definition(because I know some people will be confused): "can be obtained in an afternoon of farming" IE, not raid loot, not slavers crafting, etc. Stuff you can get in 7 or 8 runs on hard. How else are new players ever going to get good without enormous grind?

    *I say "newish". I played a bit now and again going back 5 or so years, but never had the time to sink into establishing myself in the game. Mostly I watched my friend play while we were hanging out(something I always enjoyed for some reason), so I've seen a lot of the game going back 8 years or so but have only personally been playing a short while. About a year back that friend rage-quit(mostly over drop-rates) and gave me his account. Since it had several substantial upgrades and a few strong characters, it was enough to get buy until I developed the game knowledge and gear needed to build new characters.

    So, thats apparently what it takes to keep new players: a vet's cast-off account.

  15. #35
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    -First off, I can't solo elite or R1. I'm sure there are those that can, but the difficulty jump between Hard and Elite is just too huge.
    You made a number of fantastic points. The step from N to H is miniscule. I can't really tell the difference. H to E is large in heroics, huge in epic, and profound in epic raids. IMHO, I'd replace N with what H is now (difficulty-wise). Then rework H to be midway between where it is now and E. The goal should always be "if it's EASY for you, then one step up should be hard, but not too hard." If it's hard, then one step up might be too hard. There should never be a hard slap-down stepping from an easy difficulty to the next one up.

    BTW, you may not want to do what I did, but it is effective. I spent about a month doing nothing but making trial iconic builds and running them solo through Disciples of Shar on HE using pretty much only the gear it's born in. It is a very hard test. If a build passes, it means it can handle low or no-shrine quests, packs of melee+ranged, handle traps, etc. etc.. Once you gear such a build, you're absolutely good for solo'ing all Elite content.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    "gear deserts", level-ranges where there's no good equipment available without ungodly amounts of farming
    IMHO, it's worse than that. This is the ONLY MMO that lacks any form of gear progression whatsoever. INT, for instance, might and does show up on any item. You can't get an item with higher INT, /cheer, and pop it on as an upgrade. This is true for every single stat. You have to minutely plan the gear from L1 and every upgrade is a nightmare mishmash of idiosyncratic drops. Changing a single item typically means replacing at least 3 or 4 others as well.

    Cannith crafting helps to some extent, but the stats available there are all FAR lower than available on drops. Your character will be gimpy in that stat. If you're not wearing it long or doing harder content, this is probably OK, though. Unfortunately, CC is "vet" only. You won't have enough resources to craft until your 2nd or 3rd life (be that PLs or characters).

    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    -Hit points. I'd have a much easier time surviving if I could get about 500 more HP. On a first-life character with tomes it's not easy. Currently my highest HP guy is a con-based dwarf barbarian. He has 85 CON and only 2268 hit points at lvl 30. I don't know how people get 5k HP
    Wow, that's a lot (2k). The lowest HP character I have that can solo R1 only has 1K (1200'ish under EDF). Most are around 1200. There are other routes to survival than soaking damage. If you kill them fast, they can't hurt you. If you CC (stun/etc), they can't hit back. A 5K character is a special build that is stacking many different sources of %HP boosts: LGS + Stance + Enhance and probably also has a CON focus.

    Many of the characters I see in even as high as r7/8 don't have 2K, either. Maybe rethink build strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    Drop rates. These are clearly bugged.
    Heh. They are ridiculously low and this is coming from someone that played Korean grinders (the notorious low-drop MMOs). IMHO, it's deliberate to force crystal buys rather than bugged. However, I do agree. I would be MUCH happier spending crystals if doing so would not lead to another empty chest, but guarantee a choice from the full selection of potential drops. I don't mind spending, but when I buy something, I buy it. I don't buy a chance of getting it.

    This isn't like other games where one drop is just an upgrade or where upgrades come from normal play. It's a game where you can't play the build at all until that house-of-cards called a gear-set is complete. Pull one item out, and it's highly likely to collapse.

    I don't want to farm to play. I want to play.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    OP you make good points that I mostly agree with, however...


    What new players?

    I wish DDO was bringing in players, but my experience on Khyber is pretty much the same as yours. 90% of LFMs are R1+, with maybe 10% being Elite. I can probably count the Normal/Hard LFMs I see each week on 1 hand.
    Hi, new player here.... althou that being said i run elites solo... i bring hirelings and i try and kite everything... so i guess i cant say i count... although im too scared to try even low reaper...

  17. #37
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    I assume that everyone who is able to solo Reaper has several TRs behing the character plus various guild buffs.

    I just want to see a first-life level 1 character whith NO buffs being able to solo R1 or higher.
    "No, it doesn't say 'Lifeling' "

  18. #38
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    It's definitely easier with some classes than others. E.g. Inq/AoV FvS builds. Also, Mech Rogue, PM, wf sorc, maybe (new) Paladin and Ravager melee.

    Assassin rogue? Maybe not. A first lifer usually doesn't really have the durability or healing amp to take hits in reaper, but you can build around that. This is why the recent argument about Sorc/EK being OP is a bit skewed, without support from PL/RPs/items or other trees, they wouldn't last 3 seconds.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 02-18-2020 at 11:46 AM.

  19. #39
    Founder Roman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The problem is multi-faceted: DDO has a relatively small player base which is fragmented across 8 servers (we'll pretend Wayfinder counts as a "real" server ), scattered across 30 character levels, with widely varying power between the first-life newbie vs the multi-TRed veteran at the exact same level, with 13 different difficulty settings (N/H/E, R1-10).

    Considering the already steep learning curve to DDO vs other MMOs, it's hardly surprising that new players have an incredibly hard time finding PUGs running quests at a difficulty they find acceptable. Too low and it's a boring cakewalk; too high and you're either piking or a soulstone in someone's backpack. Plus it's incredibly frustrating to be trying to learn a new quest but the veterans just zerg thru on autopilot. And you can't even count on everyone owning every quest pack.

    Not that I have a solution to this situation. Server merges would increase per-server populations, but given the lagginess of the current servers at times, I'm not sure making them bigger helps. Plus you still have all the other issues brought on by power creep etc. dividing players into the Haves and Have-Nots. Forming a static group or joining a newbie-friendly guild definitely helps...but first you have to find one that's recruiting. The hardcore server generated a lot of interest because everyone starts from a level playing field; but (A) it's VIP-only and (B) not everyone enjoys the roguelike permadeath mode, so it still only appeals to a subset of players.

    I rekindled my interest in DDO by starting over on a new server. But I don't mind soloing and I don't mind not raiding anymore. In a sense, I don't really care about the "MMO-" side of DDO anymore, or at least I got sick of where the long-term meta has been going for years, so I just gave up on it. But I'm a long-time player who (mostly) knows what he's doing. Newer players who actually want to play with others are perpetually thwarted by all the barriers to entry which DDO throws in their way.
    Agree 100%

    I can't blame people for zipping through on auto pilot after they've memorized every square inch of a dungeon. But, as a returning player after a long layoff, I can relate to new players wanting to take their time and enjoy the journey. Dungeon randomization would go a long way to bringing parity between the two. But, really, I'd like to see more flavors. The game mechanics are really fun. But the hamster wheel approach is tiresome. Would love to see some Specialized servers to explore the game meta with less time commitment. Example,

    Build Server: Offer tokens (maybe in older, less popular content/raids) that give access to a build server expressly for the purposes of creating and testing new builds. All levels, classes, actions points, etc.. immediately available. These builds would exist only on the build server and would give experienced vets something fun to do and may possibly be shared with the community. win/win.

    Permadeath: A full time server with content and raids suitable for modestly equipped permadeath toons.

    PvP (with a twist): Server that allows Players an option to play as NPC's. This would certainly add some randomization, and give vets something interesting to do. Possibly set it up as 6v6 (players vs monsters) in certain quests.

    --

    Modes:

    Unbuffed Mode: Remove or scale down all equipment effects. What a fun achievement to complete difficult content with the least amount of equipment. Just skill, strategy and teamwork.


    On a positive note, really loving reaper mode (still getting routinely murdered on R1, but still lots of fun). Reminds me of how the game felt when first playing it back in 2006.
    .: Reaper :.
    Kongo - TR | Brolik - Warforged Ranger | Bonemender - Clerimonk | Torqata - Warforged Sorcerer | Fresco - Tempest III UMD | Ognok - Intimi Guard Tank

  20. #40
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawel_San View Post

    Unless there is some very serious change to either population size or the way people run quests telling newbies "Just run normal/hard" (and even elite) is just telling them "Go away and play alone". That's a very bad thing for an MMO.

    Just my 2 cents,
    Rawel
    Except that's EXACTLY the point . . . new players should play normal or hard on quests they can't do on elite/reaper . . . IF they are soloing. If they're playing in a group, simply getting a completion is TRIVIAL, unless it's something dreadful like Temple of Elemental Evil or Terminal Delerium.

    If they weren't trying to solo, they'd have no cause to complain. The source of their problem is that they're TRYING to solo quests on elite or reaper that they're not ready to do and failing. Thus, the advice "do the quest on normal or hard if you insist on soloing it" is EXACTLY what they need.

    For some reason a LOT of the people who play this game REALLY REALLY want to solo EVERYTHING, even when this is not in their best interest, and when they fail they come complain on the forums. It's kind of amusing that you take the advice that is aimed at these hardcore anti-social persons and complain that it is ONLY for hardcore anti-social persons. Their anti-social tendencies are the CAUSE of their problem.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 02-18-2020 at 01:14 PM.

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