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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    A DPS buff that needs to be applied once per minute is an actual strategic active ability. When applied at the right time you dont lose DPS.
    A 1 minute buff that has no real cost to cast is just an annoyance. You can keep it all the time, not situationally, that makes it not an active ability.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    So the Chai/anti-chai standard derailment / ****ing contest asside I figured I should toss an update in there now that U45 is out.

    I have had an opportunity to play my Barbarian after the changes. My "Boss" DPS seems to be a little better but in general it's an effective nerf.

    I didn't realise how much damage glancing blows added up to when you are in a dogpile. What used to take 2-3 cleaves to clean up now takes 4-6 depending on mob density. Over 3 is a extra cleave at least, more than 10 and it's easily 2+ extras. Tack on the curent issue with the hit boxes around 2HF requiring you to nearly be IN the mob's modle and it's that much more painful. Even when the hitbox issues are resolved though I see this as a net DPS loss.

    It took much longer to clear a dungeon before U45 and post-U45 things did NOT speed up, if anything it's slower yet again. Realistically it all depends on how many red names I have to kill.

    So let's sum up 2HF and melee in general.


    • Generally lower DPS than ranged / caster
    • SLOWER DPS than ranged / caster
    • Forced to take more risk
    • Forced to take more damage
    • Forced to take more CC effects
    • Less CC options available, particularly group CC
    • Now with reduced AoE damage for funsies


    So ... yeah pretty sub optimal in every respect. What should be one of the most enjoyable playstyles for me, and one I thoroughly enjoyed on the HC server in a group is one of the most painful. Soloing as a Melee pretty much sucks and U45 was not the boost I had hoped it would be.

    We shall see what the hitbox changes do and I am adjusting how I play the barbarian (wading into a mass of 10+ mobs is no longer optimal) and we shall see if it finds a happier place but I don't anticipate that happening right now.
    Hi, I would like to ask for some details on your barb build if you don't mind. The reason for this is I'm playing a human barb atm that I have just got to lvl 15. I've taken up to T5 in ravager for the healing & crit boost and am currently working on the FB tree and have just got the 2nd 20% added to ST. I have also taken heal amp and the ST bonus from the human tree. I'm currently finding that with the 3 2hf feats the 200% ST total I now have is enabling me to tear through dungeons at a hugely accelerated rate over what I was able to do previously on a similar build. However my old dorf con based build (18 points in dorf for tywa, 41 in ravager and 21 in OS) is considerably slower due to the lack of ST support (he only has 170 at cap as am playing in LD).

    For both of my barbs boss damage has improved (around 30% at best guess) but for the dorf I think the best that can be said is in trash fights he can (with luck) do about the same. This though is purely down to 2 factors. 1) the lack of ST outside the 1 enhancement and 1 ED tree, and 2) being con based his tactical attacks like trip don't work very often due to low str. For my str based human though its a very different scenario. being able to trip or stun 3 mobs at a time means she isn't just doing more damage she is also taking a lot less as well.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You did misunderstand.

    My entire point is it is a false equivalence.



    Doesnt sound unneeded to me, You even said so yourself that it will always be used.

    So use it. /shrug.

    Frenzy and Death Frenzy are not an exception as claimed. You are casting a buff, then you are buffed. Wheres the exception?



    If thats your justification then they should give it charges. Or increase the cooldown to twice that of the duration. It seems that you believe because these things are not true, that automagically means it should be a passive buff where no player action needed to be taken, which is not true. The duration can be longer than the cooldown and you can still be required to cast the buff to play your class.

    As described before: Duration being longer than cooldown so therefore must be passive so I dont have to cast the buff, is a false equivalency.
    Other cores are passive so this one should be too, is another false equivalency.
    Sorry Chai but on this subject you are completely wrong. There is a very simple reason why frenzy and death frenzy were given a 1 min uptime and are not passive buffs and that fell by the wayside a loooong time ago. When these 2 buffs were 1st introduced viscous damaged the player as well as the mob you were attacking. Now no one would want a passive buff that damaged you every time you started hitting the training dummy (especially as you didn't have the barb self healing back then) so the 1 min duration made sense. Now however it really is just hotbar bloat and serves no purpose whatsoever to be a 1 min duration on 2 separate timers.

  4. #84
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post

    Also Shadar-kai Assassin's ... I honestly don't think I have ever melee'd them before but that chain attack is BS. Essentially a straight up -80% damage WITH a -40% attack speed hit in about 3 seconds.

    THIS is the kind of thing that makes melee so bloody unfun. I didn't even realise they HAD this ability playing casters and ranged, the where cc'd or dead before they got to me to use it OR in the case of the casters it didn't do a **** thing anyway. No reasonable amount of DPS add for melee is going to make up for that.

    I know this sounds like the old man yelling get off'a my lawn but **** SSG you boned Melee HARD.

    Not sure if anyone else responded to this...but...you just need to deal with these assassins properly.

    Engage them then when they start their chain attack....back out of melee range. Once their attack is done. Hit them hard and fast. Don't try to stand toe to toe when they break out the chain.
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  5. #85
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    Not sure if anyone else responded to this...but...you just need to deal with these assassins properly.

    Engage them then when they start their chain attack....back out of melee range. Once their attack is done. Hit them hard and fast. Don't try to stand toe to toe when they break out the chain.
    Not going to disagree, the point (that I made poorly) was this was a massive and fast debuff attack that ONLY melee's had to deal with. Basically it was an example of how anti-melee the play is on top of the fact that you have to be in there taking damage.

    To me the first time it surprised me as I didn't even know they had that ability when I was playing ranged and caster builds. I literally had NO idea they could do that though I had seen the animation in the past. I thought it was more a flavor attack sort of deal.

    But even dealing with it, say jumping out when they start and then back in after they are done, which works, it way behind the caster / ranged option of just mow them down and keep going. It was more a complaint against the anti-melee game that that specific monster.

  6. #86
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weemadarthur View Post
    Hi, I would like to ask for some details on your barb build if you don't mind. The reason for this is I'm playing a human barb atm that I have just got to lvl 15. I've taken up to T5 in ravager for the healing & crit boost and am currently working on the FB tree and have just got the 2nd 20% added to ST. I have also taken heal amp and the ST bonus from the human tree. I'm currently finding that with the 3 2hf feats the 200% ST total I now have is enabling me to tear through dungeons at a hugely accelerated rate over what I was able to do previously on a similar build. However my old dorf con based build (18 points in dorf for tywa, 41 in ravager and 21 in OS) is considerably slower due to the lack of ST support (he only has 170 at cap as am playing in LD).

    For both of my barbs boss damage has improved (around 30% at best guess) but for the dorf I think the best that can be said is in trash fights he can (with luck) do about the same. This though is purely down to 2 factors. 1) the lack of ST outside the 1 enhancement and 1 ED tree, and 2) being con based his tactical attacks like trip don't work very often due to low str. For my str based human though its a very different scenario. being able to trip or stun 3 mobs at a time means she isn't just doing more damage she is also taking a lot less as well.
    I'll try and remember to look that up and post it here when I get home. As I recall though I am DEEP in Ravager and it's my primary tree for the same reason. Not sure if I ran down the Frenzied Breserker tree or not. I suspect I have but it might now have, assuming I didn't though an extra 20% strike through will be nice but not really change the issue I have with packs of 10+ mobs, doublestrike helps a LOT more there. My build is a dwarf though and I don't think I took anything at all from the Dwarf tree, again I will try and remember to x2 check and post it here.

  7. #87
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weemadarthur View Post
    Sorry Chai but on this subject you are completely wrong. There is a very simple reason why frenzy and death frenzy were given a 1 min uptime and are not passive buffs and that fell by the wayside a loooong time ago. When these 2 buffs were 1st introduced viscous damaged the player as well as the mob you were attacking. Now no one would want a passive buff that damaged you every time you started hitting the training dummy (especially as you didn't have the barb self healing back then) so the 1 min duration made sense. Now however it really is just hotbar bloat and serves no purpose whatsoever to be a 1 min duration on 2 separate timers.
    Citation needed that this was the ONLY reason.

    I still contend (and am 100% correct) that anyone complaining about 2APM to buff str and dmg should steer clear of the entire RTS genre as well as most MMOs (especially the newer MMOs). FPS is probably off the table too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    A 1 minute buff that has no real cost to cast is just an annoyance. You can keep it all the time, not situationally, that makes it not an active ability.
    Better hope the response to this kind of feedback isnt to keep it 2APM but cut the CD in half. Now you have the same "annoyance" of buffing your str and dmg while not being able to verbally fence your way out of having to actively play the character by your own definition.

    I mean its hilarious how the advocacy that has no issue of 90WPM-ing out posts with lawyerism after lawyerism that its not an active ability (and youre not the only one doing this btw) has NEVER mentioned actually making it an active ability. They all want to maintain the "run forward and hold down mouse1 = win" that already describes too many classes in DDO.

    The response should be: Not an active ability eh? OK we'll make it an active ability. 30 sec uptime, 1 min CD. taaah daaaah!
    Last edited by Chai; 02-24-2020 at 03:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  8. #88
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Absolutely, I don't know exactly where that is right now but I know I have some gear and all the sources I can get from his AP. That is why I am seeing boss fights faster as they usually only have a couple or 3 guys with them. MOST boss fights don't have 10+ trash with them.

    So in the cases where there are 1-3 guys it's a faster fight for sure. In the cases where it's 4-5 it's about even. More than 5 though and it's definitely behind the curve than it was. Now I am REALLY hoping most of that is due to the hitbox issues they have right now but I don't think that it's affecting cleaves so it might not be. We shall see for sure as I progress with the toon, assuming I can tough it out to 30 and not just TR him for the extra HP.
    Alright fair. I didn't have my current toon at 30 for long prior to U45 compared to after, so it seems pretty fine to me. I'm also looking forward to the hitbox fix, but from my viewpoint typically in mass-mob fights I'm mostly kiting between cleaves so I don't mind losing a little GB damage compared to my cleaves being twice as effective. Probably biased though since I'm running EK; Arcane Tempest frequently hits ~13k base and doubling that is nice

    I guess it seems to me that since I'm hitting 3-4 enemies at full strength it comes out ahead of one enemy at full strength and 5 to a percentage thereof? Like GB's couldn't crit or doublestrike, but ST does. I'd have estimated 1-4 as faster, 5-6 as even, and only in the 7+ range where it falls off; and the DS on cleaves means it feels faster overall?

    Probably depends a bunch on how much you rely on cleaves vs auto-attacking trash. I feel like Barbarian (being a Cleave-heavy build) should do better post-U45 just because of that for mass combat regardless of ST vs GB's.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Citation needed that this was the ONLY reason.

    I still contend (and am 100% correct) that anyone complaining about 2APM to buff str and dmg should steer clear of the entire RTS genre as well as most MMOs (especially the newer MMOs). FPS is probably off the table too.



    Better hope the response to this kind of feedback isnt to keep it 2APM but cut the CD in half. Now you have the same "annoyance" of buffing your str and dmg while not being able to verbally fence your way out of having to actively play the character by your own definition.

    I mean its hilarious how the advocacy that has no issue of 90WPM-ing out posts with lawyerism after lawyerism that its not an active ability (and youre not the only one doing this btw) has NEVER mentioned actually making it an active ability. They all want to maintain the "run forward and hold down mouse1 = win" that already describes too many classes in DDO.

    The response should be: Not an active ability eh? OK we'll make it an active ability. 30 sec uptime, 1 min CD. taaah daaaah!
    Sorry, but always clicking a buff every 30s doesn't give DDO deeper gameplay or increase the skill ceiling, it's just annoying.

    If you want the scientific explanation of why this is bad design, in game theory it's known as a dominated strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance

    If you want depth, you give people more strategic options that they have to select between depending on what the enemies do.

  10. #90
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    Sorry, but always clicking a buff every 30s doesn't give DDO deeper gameplay or increase the skill ceiling, it's just annoying.

    If you want the scientific explanation of why this is bad design, in game theory it's known as a dominated strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance

    If you want depth, you give people more strategic options that they have to select between depending on what the enemies do.
    This has zero to do with what you linked. Its not remotely that complex of an issue.

    It has to do with asking players to actually cast buffs in order to receive them. You can have whatever subjective view point on this you like (its an annoyance/inconvenience etc...), but it doesnt change the fact that this is true in pretty much every MMO/RPG etc.

    You want the buff? Cast the buff.

    Theres another even more fundamental issue with your premise here:
    Its not the skill CEILING we are talking about at this point. Its the skill FLOOR. If people complain about the negligible rise in skill FLOOR of 2 APM to buff the character, there is zero hope in ever raising the actual skill CEILING.
    Last edited by Chai; 02-24-2020 at 04:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  11. #91
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    Re shadarkai spiked chain attack.

    It is true that it's a problem for melees and not for ranged or casters; really it would be nice if ranged/casters had more (any) issues of this kind that melee didn't have to deal with.

    But besides that there are a lot of ways for melee to deal with the spiked chain, and walking away from the mob is only 1 of those ways. AC, displacement and dodge all work against the spiked chain; which is my favorite way to deal with it - when the chain only has a 20% chance to hit you on any given tick; the debuff really doesn't stack up on you. Killing the mob is a great one. And I'm pretty sure trip and stun will both stop the spike chain pretty quickly.
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  12. #92
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Do you have Doublestrike? Cleaves now can Doublestrike, which is a pretty huge damage buff especially in lategame (and even early on, Reaper DS boost is great).


    THF changes seem to heavily favor active attacks (instead of previous where you'd active one enemy and glance to five others, now you active three of them). Are you using those as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    I'll try and remember to look that up and post it here when I get home. As I recall though I am DEEP in Ravager and it's my primary tree for the same reason. Not sure if I ran down the Frenzied Breserker tree or not. I suspect I have but it might now have, assuming I didn't though an extra 20% strike through will be nice but not really change the issue I have with packs of 10+ mobs, doublestrike helps a LOT more there. My build is a dwarf though and I don't think I took anything at all from the Dwarf tree, again I will try and remember to x2 check and post it here.
    So ravager all the way to T5 (42 AP)
    FB goes to tier 4 (con) with 31 AP in there but I see it was HP build more than DPS (welcome to HC baby) so I will swap that around for the strikethrough
    OS has 7 AP in it for 50% longer rage and 3% dodge ... can probably take the dode out of that.


    Right now doublestrike is at 7% and Strikethrough is at 150% I can get those better I am sure.


    All in all I have some adjustment to do and we will see if that helps. Thanks for putting that bug in my ear.

  13. #93
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    Hope that's not aimed at me. I don't want them changed it was more that they stack almost instantly and are a complete NON-ISSUE if you aren't melee. There are few to no mobs that have this kind of massive debuff that hits a caster or ranged toon, **** even mobs that are immune can be bypassed in many cases.

    Melee is brutally broken right now, and I enjoyed playing melee with trips and stuns and cleaves and all on the HC server. Tactics where my thing, **** it's why I loved it so much on that server, it was the first time I played melee in a long time and it was good. Then to come and find in a solo environment it's just so, so, so brutally slow and tedious while virtual every other playstyle (minus healbot I guess) have better tools, tactics and options to either avoid, mitigate or outright destroy these same challenges.

    The Shadar Kai are just an EXCELLENT example of the vast imbalance that Melee's are forced to deal with.
    Know your enemy.
    When he starts swinging his chain just move back wait for him to break the animation. The spinning chain does not immediately inflict any debuffs. Just pay attention. You have legs, use em. Shadar Kai are easy. And I've played melee the last five lives. Standing there like a buffoon and soaking up the debuffs, KNOWING what the debuffs are and still playing the role of artificer's turret only proves the dump-stat.

    That said, I wouldn't mind seeing them snag a caster by the ankle for a change. (But with a save unlike that web trip bs plants, drow and the spinner us.
    Last edited by Jerevth; 02-24-2020 at 06:58 PM.
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  14. #94
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    Doing well on HC so far with pure Barb ... have to be fast to get the kills before the pew pew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It has to do with asking players to actually cast buffs in order to receive them. You can have whatever subjective view point on this you like (its an annoyance/inconvenience etc...), but it doesnt change the fact that this is true in pretty much every MMO/RPG etc.

    You want the buff? Cast the buff.

    Theres another even more fundamental issue with your premise here:
    Its not the skill CEILING we are talking about at this point. Its the skill FLOOR. If people complain about the negligible rise in skill FLOOR of 2 APM to buff the character, there is zero hope in ever raising the actual skill CEILING.
    This might have relevance if DDO were a skill based game, it's not, and never has been. This is defining skill as - precision, positioning, timing. DDO is a game where Quest knowledge/monster abilities > build strength > precision, positioning, timing. DDO in my opinion has a low skill floor AND a low skill ceiling. In the few cases where skilled play might actually make a difference, it mostly doesn't matter. This is because monster AI, no matter how good or bad it may be can never equal a reactive, intelligent, opponent. Mostly, the situations that can be defined as challenging, occur when elements of chaos over-power the player (champs and reapers).

    I once soloed a legendary R10 quest on a level 20 neked first life character with no epic destiny. Was it hard? I can only say it was tedious, but not hard. Quest knowledge and build strength made this possible, it had nothing to do with precision, positioning, timing, except at low skill floors.

    Clicking a button once per minute regardless of positioning, or timing, is not skilled play, it is just tedious.

    I am all about making the game more difficult, and more rewarding to active, well timed, and well positioned abilities. I am also on board with removing pointless APM and hotbar bloat.

    These are my opinions and thoughts and I will not position them as anything other than that. So feel free to text-wall your OPINION at me but don't expect me to take it as anything other than that in the context of another person's perspective and experiences.

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    If you cant even get through R1 on your main, how are you doing r10. People know who you on Khyber...Why don't you have another beer Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Kotharsjach View Post
    This might have relevance if DDO were a skill based game, it's not, and never has been. This is defining skill as - precision, positioning, timing. DDO is a game where Quest knowledge/monster abilities > build strength > precision, positioning, timing. DDO in my opinion has a low skill floor AND a low skill ceiling. In the few cases where skilled play might actually make a difference, it mostly doesn't matter. This is because monster AI, no matter how good or bad it may be can never equal a reactive, intelligent, opponent. Mostly, the situations that can be defined as challenging, occur when elements of chaos over-power the player (champs and reapers).

    I once soloed a legendary R10 quest on a level 20 neked first life character with no epic destiny. Was it hard? I can only say it was tedious, but not hard. Quest knowledge and build strength made this possible, it had nothing to do with precision, positioning, timing, except at low skill floors.

    Clicking a button once per minute regardless of positioning, or timing, is not skilled play, it is just tedious.

    I am all about making the game more difficult, and more rewarding to active, well timed, and well positioned abilities. I am also on board with removing pointless APM and hotbar bloat.

    These are my opinions and thoughts and I will not position them as anything other than that. So feel free to text-wall your OPINION at me but don't expect me to take it as anything other than that in the context of another person's perspective and experiences.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Citation needed that this was the ONLY reason.

    I still contend (and am 100% correct) that anyone complaining about 2APM to buff str and dmg should steer clear of the entire RTS genre as well as most MMOs (especially the newer MMOs). FPS is probably off the table too.



    Better hope the response to this kind of feedback isnt to keep it 2APM but cut the CD in half. Now you have the same "annoyance" of buffing your str and dmg while not being able to verbally fence your way out of having to actively play the character by your own definition.

    I mean its hilarious how the advocacy that has no issue of 90WPM-ing out posts with lawyerism after lawyerism that its not an active ability (and youre not the only one doing this btw) has NEVER mentioned actually making it an active ability. They all want to maintain the "run forward and hold down mouse1 = win" that already describes too many classes in DDO.

    The response should be: Not an active ability eh? OK we'll make it an active ability. 30 sec uptime, 1 min CD. taaah daaaah!
    Sorry again Chai but your now just talking BS! I did not say it was the ONLY reason I said it was A reason and one that made sense.

    No one is saying 2 APM is to difficult to manage. However 30 APM is believe it or not a little bit easier to manage than 32 APM (and no that isn't some magical number i made up its the amount of clickies for various things I actually have on my hotbars on my Barbs at cap). People here have been trying to explain that its 2 EXTRA APM for no real reason that is now outdated and pointless that's the problem. A minor one to be fair hence people have been describing it as an annoyance rather than a deal breaking I don't want to play this game any more its too hard problem. This is especially annoying as there are other enhancement trees with equivalent PASSIVE abilities.

    Now to the false equivalency you keep spouting out. How is it a false equivalence to compare 2 things that do exactly the same thing? That's just an equivalent ability in a different tree. There is nothing false about it.


    So to sum up for you as a QoL fix some (and I expect most) barbarians would be happier if frenzy and death frenzy were changed to be more in line with how more recent trees apply their damage bonuses in their cores. No one is asking for all boosts to be made passive. No one is asking for extra power. No one is saying that having these 2 extra clickies is a game breaker or making the game too hard.

    Personally I think they should make them passive bonuses linked to rage. I'm not saying that's the right idea just my personal fav.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    So ravager all the way to T5 (42 AP)
    FB goes to tier 4 (con) with 31 AP in there but I see it was HP build more than DPS (welcome to HC baby) so I will swap that around for the strikethrough
    OS has 7 AP in it for 50% longer rage and 3% dodge ... can probably take the dode out of that.


    Right now doublestrike is at 7% and Strikethrough is at 150% I can get those better I am sure.


    All in all I have some adjustment to do and we will see if that helps. Thanks for putting that bug in my ear.
    Hi again.

    Just as a bit of a breakdown for you here is where you can get strikethrough from on your character.

    Base is 20%

    4x THF feats will give an extra 150% (170 total)

    angry arms and mad munitions from FB will give a total of 40% (210% total)

    Malicious weapons and wild weapons in FOTW will give 40% (250% total).

    If you then combine those with a DS heavy gear setup (sharn part of the family set is good here) you will be reliably hitting 3-4 mobs per swing with a good chance of double strike on each hit.

    When you combine that with trip and/or stunning blow though is where things really start to get fun :P

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    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You can have whatever subjective view point on this you like (its an annoyance/inconvenience etc...), but it doesnt change the fact that this is true in pretty much every MMO/RPG etc.

    You want the buff? Cast the buff.

    Theres another even more fundamental issue with your premise here:
    Its not the skill CEILING we are talking about at this point. Its the skill FLOOR. If people complain about the negligible rise in skill FLOOR of 2 APM to buff the character, there is zero hope in ever raising the actual skill CEILING.
    Got any example abilities from other MMOs? I've played a lot of MMOs and I don't recall any such spells of buffs on the top of my head. They're either shorter duration (with same CD), or longer CD with the same duration. Usually there's a strategic choice involved somehow.

    It's a bit asinine to ask for a quote on Dfrenzt and frenzy being relics of an old era of vicious. We know this is true. You know this is true. The devs knows this is true.

    As for skill ceiling or floor. Only way that would ever be an argument were if cd was shorter, or duration was longer. That would mean a nerf to barb, however. Which may or not be needed, but definitely has to be taken into account.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  20. #100
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It has to do with asking players to actually cast buffs in order to receive them.
    Ninja-buffing IS FUN !


    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    If you cant even get through R1 on your main, how are you doing r10. People know who you on Khyber...Why don't you have another beer Rage Mage
    I don't care about Reaper. Why should I ?


    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    When they take away tactical play, all that remains is how fast you pwn content.
    Yes, but you can't blame the developers for that, or only partially, because that's a play style invented by Blizzard and now called "Action-RPG" and "zerging".

    The success of Blizzard was SO OVERWHELMING ( via buying and adapting players ) that nearly every developer followed that formula (aka "follow the trail of money"), and players worldwide widely accepted this play style.

    And everything else was gone.

    There was no tactical play style anymore,
    all that remained worldwide were speedruns after Blizzard's formula.

    Well, and then came Divinity : Original Sin.

    Nowadays, most companies still adhere to "the Blizzard formula", because it still generates more profits with - compared to real tactical game play - less programming.

    Real tactical play style programming is just more work. And since everything is so much profit-oriented these days, what is less work rules.

    Even then around 2012 I had found too much Action-RPG in DDO for my personal taste.
    But, when I'm comparing that against what's being delivered by bigger publishers these days, DDO is still better than anything else - only what Indoes do is often better.

    So ... you really can't blame developers when it is in fact the mass of players jumping onto the train of speedruns, zerging and Action-RPGs in general.

    If we really want a change, then we must do it ourselves.
    We just can't wait until "the industry" reacts. It just doesn't go like that.

    Alrik
    Last edited by Alrik_Fassbauer; 02-25-2020 at 04:26 AM.
    "No, it doesn't say 'Lifeling' "

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