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  1. #1
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default PDK Vanguard of Helm (U45)

    Update 45 is making major changes to Two Handed Fighting (THF) feats and some tweaks to paladins, particularly the Knight of the Chalice (KotC) tree. You can read about them in the Lamannia forums, but the most important changes for this build are:
    • Glancing blows are being replaced by a new mechanic called Strikethrough.
    • Greater THF adds 3x your ability score to 2H weapons and 1.6x to hand-and-a-half weapons (i.e. bastard swords and dwarven axes).
    • Paladins are NOT gaining Grace of Battle like Favored Souls, so the only inherent option for CHA to-hit and damage for a paladin will remain Purple Dragon Knight's Cormyrian Knight Training (CKT).
    • Divine Might is being changed from an Insightful STR bonus to an Insight bonus to Attack, Damage, and the DC of tactical feats. While this is largely being seen as a nerf to STR paladins, it's an upgrade for a CHA-based paladin like this, especially since the DC bonuses from CKT and Divine Might should stack on Vanguard shield stuns plus Dire Charge. [Although the glass-half-empty change is that Insightful gear will no longer stack with Insight bonuses like the new Divine Might, Know the Angles, etc. Which is probably how it was supposed to work all along, but a bugfix still feels like a nerf if it eliminates a favorable bug.]
    • Sacred Defender is also getting some upgrades, like +10% Sacred HPs in the level 18 core enhancement.

    So once again, let us revisit the CHA-based PDK S&B paladin. This build as presented requires a +1 Heart of Wood (to get rid of the initial fighter level) and +3 STR/DEX/INT tomes for feat pre-reqs (GTHF, Precision, and Combat Expertise, respectively), although it can be up- or downgraded based on which tome(s) you actually have. Also it can be run as paladin 19 / fighter 1; obviously this means giving up the capstone. On the plus side, this build doesn't require a ton of racial past lives for the extra APs, though those always help.
    Code:
    PDK Vanguard of Helm
    Paladin 20
    Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight
    
    
    Stats
                   32pt     34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
                   ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
    Strength        14       14       14       +3       4: CHA
    Dexterity       10       10       10       +3       8: CHA
    Constitution    14       15       16       +3      12: CHA
    Intelligence    10       10       10       +3      16: CHA
    Wisdom           8        8        8       +3      20: CHA
    Charisma        18       18       18       +3      24: CHA
                                                       28: CHA
    
    Skills
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
             ------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Intim     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Heal               2     2     2     2     2     2     2     2     2  18
    UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
    Tumble       1                                                         1
             ------------------------------------------------------------
             12  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4
    
    
    Feats
    
     1        : Shield Mastery
     1 PDK    : Improved Shield Bash OR Force of Personality
     3        : Two Handed Fighting
     6        : Improved Two Handed Fighting
     9        : Improved Critical: Slashing
    12        : Greater Two Handed Fighting
    15        : Precision
    18        : Improved Shield Mastery
    21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic   : Combat Expertise
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction OR Empower Healing Spell
    28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
    30 Epic   : Bulwark of Defense OR Quicken Spell
    30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea
    
     1 Deity  : Follower of: Helm
     6 Deity  : Ever Watchful
    Not listing Enhancements until after Update 45 goes live and the builder gets updated. But one of the advantages here is flexibility. Want to run heroics with a Sword of Shadow and wait until epics to switch to Vanguard? Focus on KotC and Sacred Defender; CKT works just fine with SoS and you start with the full THF chain. Got a favorite longsword you want to use, like Divine Vengeance? Put 20+ APs into KotC and get Knight's Training for free. Need to go all-in on tanking? Make Sacred Defender your primary tree, run in Unyielding Sentinel, and don't forget to Twist in Improved Combat Expertise.

    The downside is this build isn't minmaxed for any one role. If you want a dedicated endgame raid tank, this isn't it. But there are always going to be tradeoffs.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 02-08-2020 at 02:47 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Im really looking forward to U45 should be a lot of fun!

    How would you suggest making room for Precision in this build? As far as starting stats go.

    Edit: If you had no dex tome that is.
    Last edited by Coffey; 02-08-2020 at 01:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
    How would you suggest making room for Precision in this build? As far as starting stats go.
    Most of the time, I prefer Precision over Power Attack. Even when I take PA for access to Cleave feats, the only times I use PA stance these days is if I'm running a barbarian or druid, since Rage disables Precision. And unless I missed it, PA isn't being buffed in U45. So if anything, I would sacrifice Combat Expertise to keep Precision, if I really didn't have the stat points / tomes to pull off both. Like I said, though, this isn't exactly one of my lowbie-friendly builds.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Most of the time, I prefer Precision over Power Attack. Even when I take PA for access to Cleave feats, the only times I use PA stance these days is if I'm running a barbarian or druid, since Rage disables Precision. And unless I missed it, PA isn't being buffed in U45. So if anything, I would sacrifice Combat Expertise to keep Precision, if I really didn't have the stat points / tomes to pull off both. Like I said, though, this isn't exactly one of my lowbie-friendly builds.
    I have a +8 Supreme Tome on my main but I was looking at Paladin for a HCL build next season. I played your PDK build that you made for the Naked Iconic Build ~ Test/Challenge last season and it could absorb a lot of damage but not so good on the offensive side at the time. I used PA instead of Precision to add some raw damage and to have some Strength to work with. I threw on a shield at times when i was intim tanking in a parties.

    I will probably just dump stat Dexterity next league and use PA with this build and play both S&B and THF!

    Thanks

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Not listing Enhancements until after Update 45 goes live and the builder gets updated.
    So your thinking KoTC main? Also, Force of Personality on a charisma based paladin is quite probably overkill. Maybe take improved trip before shield mastery, drop combat expertise, and definitely go for dire charge. If you are going to have such a high tactics bonus from DM and CKT, might as well make use of it. What do you think about also dropping epic DR for stunning blow? I would actually look at taking improved trip/stunning blow in heroics as well, and kicking the shield mastery feats to epics, since they are small passive bonuses instead of gameplay changing ones.

    Even though you are maxing charisma, you need some strength anyways to avoid getting tripped all the time and killed on the ground. If you have some strength, and massive tactics bonuses from charisma, might as well then have the trips and stuns to go with it.

    Mmm, maybe even drop both SM feats and bulwark (saves already overkill) and pick up dodge-mobility-spring attack. Then with KoTC and Dire Charge you will have 3 different AoE charge cleave attacks.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-08-2020 at 06:41 PM.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Maybe take improved trip before shield mastery, drop combat expertise
    Doesn't Improved Trip still require Combat Expertise?

    The Shield Mastery feats are there because they're also a pre-req for Legendary Shield Mastery for a net gain of +15% doublestrike and +25/30 PRR (w/heavy or tower shield). Since Doublestrike doesn't "wrap around" like Doubleshot, someone who has already maxed out their doublestrike and thinks they have enough PRR can drop them, so you can take e.g. Stunning Blow and Improved Trip instead of SM+ISM. Heck, make a greatsword variant which skips S&B entirely if you want, which also leaves you enough APs to grab +10% HPs from Sacred Defender, but that's a different thread.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 03-21-2020 at 03:07 PM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Galinar's Avatar
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    I can confirm that the bonuses to tactical DC’s from divine might and CKT do indeed stack. With divine might on, my CHA based PDK Paly has a 138 dc on dire charge and 148 on stunning shield.
    Last edited by Galinar; 02-15-2020 at 09:05 AM.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galinar View Post
    I can confirm that the bonuses to tactical DC’s from divine might and CKT do indeed stack. With divine might on, my CHA based PDK Paly has a 138 dc on dire charge and 148 on stunning shield.
    But, does CKT add CHA to-hit and to-damage for shields as well? Because without it, shields gonna have a lot of sad "grazing hits"...

  9. #9
    Community Member Xandez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komradkillingmachine View Post
    But, does CKT add CHA to-hit and to-damage for shields as well? Because without it, shields gonna have a lot of sad "grazing hits"...
    It does not.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    A couple of people have asked about Enhancement splits for this build. Since SpookyNoodle provided a manual update to KotC tree (with a couple of corrections from yours truly), I thought I'd take a stab at it, although this is still a work in progress.
    Code:
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Vanguard (41 AP)
    
    • To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
      1. Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III, Unbalancing Shove I
      2. Shield Specialization, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
      3. Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
      4. Shield Specialization
      5. Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash II, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength
    Knight of the Chalice (23 AP)
    • Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
      1. Extra Smite I, Improved Second Strikes III
      2. Adept Combatant, Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave
      3. Holy Combatant, Sacrificial Strike I, Lead the Charge III
      4. Knight's Training
    Sacred Defender (13 AP)
    • Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
      1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
      2. Resilient Defense II
      3. Hardy Defense III
    Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Cormyrean Knight Training
    Leveling Guide
    • Purple Dragon Knight: Damage Boost
      1. Cormyrean Knight Training
    • Sacred Defender: Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
      1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense I
    • Knight of the Chalice: Slayer of Evil
      1. Extra Smite I, Improved Second Strikes III
      2. Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave
    • Vanguard: To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II
      1. Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III, Unbalancing Shove I
      2. Shield Specialization, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
      3. Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
      4. Shield Specialization
      5. Shield to the Face, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength
    15. KoC0 Courage of Heaven; KoC0 Slayer of Evil II; SD1 Durable Defense II, III 16. SD2 Resilient Defense I, II; SD3 Hardy Defense I, II 17. SD3 Hardy Defense III; KoC3 Sacrificial Strike I; Van5 Disorienting Smash I, II 18. Van0 Vicious Shield II; KoC3 Lead the Charge I, II, III 19. KoC2 Adept Combatant; KoC3 Holy Combatant 20. Van0 Shield Champion; KoC0 Improved Courage of Heaven; KoC4 Knight's Training
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  11. #11
    Community Member Torkzed's Avatar
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    Unbongwah,

    I just found this thread; I'm not sure how I missed it when I went looking for something like this build. I posted a similar build under Strimtom's paladin vanguard thread as a variation on his theme. The main difference between what I posted and your build is that I didnt want to use a +1 heart, so I went with 18/2 Pal/Ftr.

    I have been looking over the differences and I noticed that I had not taken Combat Expertise. That looks like a good thing to have on this semi-tanky build, so I will swap out the Weapon Focus Slashing that I had thrown in because I could not think of anything better on the second Ftr level.

    I also had some minor questions related to skills --

    1) You went with concentration as one of the skills you pumped up. If you had the extra feats (as the /2 Ftr split does), would you take quicken? And if so, would you still raise concentration? I was thinking that the only spell I might throw in combat was a heal, and I probably could afford to just Quicken them.

    2) I was thinking of starting with a 16 STR because I am concerned about tactics DCs. (I have the tomes necessary to meet various feat pre-reqs.) Do you think I would be better served going down to 14 STR and pumping up INT to allow more skills (like Heal?). I kind of liked the idea of raising diplo (as in Strimtom's take), just because it is occasionally handy to dump agro, and I like to have at least one social skill to help party in various quests. But I see the value in Heal, and now I kind of want both.

    Thanks for this thread. I am looking forward to trying this out.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torkzed View Post
    I could not think of anything better on the second Ftr level.
    Drop the level, and grab 1 warlock for feigned health and magical training/echoes?
    Last edited by Tilomere; 03-24-2020 at 11:53 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Torkzed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Drop the level, and grab 1 warlock for feigned health and magical training/echoes?
    That is an interesting idea. But I would need to review my enhancement AP use. I am not sure where I would take the 4 AP from.

    I play a lot of warlock, so I am familiar with the value of temp HP but I will have heals and LOH for this guy. Is this overkill? (Although I guess temp HP work at full strength in reaper, so there is that...but it is an iconic build, and low-mid heroics is where I really love the temp HP, so again...hmmm...making me think about it, at least.)

    But if we start thinking along these lines, then would 1 Wizard and the same 4 AP for Mage Armor be even better? (Not sure about how the 10% AC boost stacks.)

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torkzed View Post
    1) You went with concentration as one of the skills you pumped up. If you had the extra feats (as the /2 Ftr split does), would you take quicken? And if so, would you still raise concentration?
    Up to you: this is a feat-starved build so I thought I would try relying on Concentration which got upgraded last year - it's literally ten times more useful than it used to be - and if it stops being sufficient I'll drop Quicken in there somewhere. You don't need to pass a Concentration check to use LoHs or ED SLAs like Renewal, so it would only be for your paladin spells.
    2) I was thinking of starting with a 16 STR because I am concerned about tactics DCs.
    You can see I went all-in on CHA as my primary stat. So I only built around Vanguard abilities + Dire Charge because their DCs use whatever's your highest stat. I also have the option of using tier-5 Holy Retribution if/when I find it useful since that's CHA-based too. If you want to follow Tilomere's suggestion about adding other tactics feats (i.e., Improved Trip, Stunning Blow) - well, best of luck to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torkzed View Post
    But if we start thinking along these lines, then would 1 Wizard and the same 4 AP for Mage Armor be even better? (Not sure about how the 10% AC boost stacks.)
    Improved Mage Armor's +10% AC is an Exceptional bonus so it should stack with everything except druid bear-form AC bonus, IIRC.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 03-24-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Helm makes PDK cool again.

    On hardcore finally running a PDK with the bastard sword...… ftw.
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  16. #16
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    Any build serious about using Vanguard needs the capstone, it's the whole point of the tree, meaning no splits.

    Paladin is feat starves but with careful planning, and realizing that shields are **** until much later, you can work around that.

    This is something I've run from 1 to 30 several times as I pound out various heroic and epic PLs. This isn't a fun or flavor build, it actually works really well and has flexibility.

    Template look something like this,

    STR 18
    DEX 10 (important, need 13 by level 3)
    CON 14
    INT 10
    WIS 8
    CHA 16

    Paladin
    1 THF + Deity (Force of Personality if Human)
    3 Precision
    6 I THF + Divine Feat
    9 I Crit Slashing
    12 G THF
    15 Shield Mastery
    18 Imp Shield Mastery

    21 Overwhelming Crit
    24 Imp Shield Bash
    26 Perfect THF
    27 Blinding Speed
    28 Perfect TWF
    29 Dire Charge
    30 Scion of Arborea
    30 Force of Personality (Whatever you Want if Human)

    Shield bashing sucks in heroics and only gets good halfway through epics when solid DPS orientated shield start showing up. At level 29 we get the BFG of DPS shields, Legendary Best Defense with it's Impact V + Sov Vorpal, ridiculous base dice of 2D10+10 and +31% bash chance. Vanguard adds more +3W, +2 Thread Range and +1 Multiplier. That shield already has 18-20/x3 so it just become 16-20/x4, unfortunately Holy Sword doesn't work with shields. The cool thing with this progression is we can easily use Great Swords in heroics where they own everything, especially if we have a Sword of Shadows, and once we hit epics look to convert to Bastard Sword + Shield with no changes.

    For PDK, all we need to do is adjust the initial stats and give ourselves Force of Personality as the level 1 bonus feat.

    For AP distribution, this is where things get tricky. Vanguard T5 sucks badly, but it's capstone is godly. KoTC T5 is godly while it's capstone is nice but not necessary. What this means is we want KoTC T5 (33 points) while having Vanguard capstone (41 points) leaving us exactly 6 points for PDK. Racial AP really help this build by the way, the more the better. KoTC first as we're leveling with Great Swords then Vanguard.

    Looks like this, ignore the racial / universal.


    Character name: Paladin
    Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic
    Race: Purple Dragon Knight Alignment: Lawful Good

    · · ·Start Tome Final
    Str:· · 14· · 8 · ·23 · · ·
    Dex:· · 10· · 8 · ·19 · · ·
    Con:· · 16· · 8 · ·24 · · ·
    Int:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·
    Wis:· · ·8· · 8 · ·16 · · ·
    Cha:· · 18· · 8 · ·36 · · ·
    DR:
    Immunities: Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear, Energy Drain, Magical Controls and Compulsion

    Class and Feat Selection
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Level 1 Requires a +1 Heart of Wood to switch out of Iconic Class
    1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Purple Dragon Knight Bonus: Force of Personality
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Favored by Helm
    2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
    3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Precision
    4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
    6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Ever Watchful
    7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
    8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
    11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
    12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
    14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
    15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Shield Mastery
    16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
    18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Improved Shield Mastery
    19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
    20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
    22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
    23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
    24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Improved Shield Bash
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
    26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Blinding Speed
    28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
    29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
    30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
    · · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

    Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 4, Universal 1
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Purple Dragon Knight - Points spent: 5
    1 Core ·(1) Versatility I: Damage Boost
    2 Tier1 (2) Cormyrean Knight Training
    3 Core ·(2) Adaptability: +1 Charisma
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 33
    1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
    2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
    3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
    4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
    5 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
    6 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
    7 Tier2 (2) Divine Might
    8 Tier2 (2) Divine Might
    9 Tier2 (2) Divine Might
    10 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
    11 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
    12 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
    13 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
    14 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Charisma
    15 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
    16 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
    17 Tier1 (1) Shieldbeaker
    18 Tier1 (1) Shieldbeaker
    19 Tier1 (1) Shieldbeaker
    20 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
    21 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
    22 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Vanguard - Points spent: 41
    1 Core ·(1) To the Fore!
    2 Tier1 (2) Shield Specialization I
    3 Tier1 (1) Unbalancing Shove
    4 Tier1 (1) Unbalancing Shove
    5 Tier1 (1) Unbalancing Shove
    6 Core ·(1) Shield Combat I
    7 Tier2 (2) Shield Specialization II
    8 Tier2 (1) Action Boost Melee Power
    9 Tier2 (1) Action Boost Melee Power
    10 Tier2 (1) Action Boost Melee Power
    11 Tier2 (1) Stunning Shield
    12 Tier2 (1) Stunning Shield
    13 Tier2 (1) Stunning Shield
    14 Tier3 (2) Fatal Bulwark
    15 Core ·(1) Vicious Shield I
    16 Tier3 (2) Shield Specialization III
    17 Tier4 (2) Shield Specialization IV
    18 Core ·(1) Shield Combat II
    19 Tier1 (1) Shield Smash
    20 Tier1 (1) Shield Smash
    21 Tier1 (1) Shield Smash
    22 Tier2 (1) Brutality
    23 Tier2 (1) Brutality
    24 Tier2 (1) Brutality
    25 Tier3 (1) Follow Up
    26 Tier3 (1) Follow Up
    27 Tier3 (1) Follow Up
    28 Core ·(1) Vicious Shield II
    29 Tier4 (1) Shield Charge
    30 Tier4 (1) Shield Charge
    31 Tier4 (1) Shield Charge
    32 Tier4 (1) Armor Mastery
    33 Tier4 (1) Armor Mastery
    34 Tier4 (1) Armor Mastery
    35 Tier2 (1) Missile Shield
    36 Core ·(1) Shield Champion
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    There are options in both KoTC and Vanguard to move enhancements around, the import parts are the Holy Combatant and Shield Specialization lines along with the Shield Stunning and Holy Retribution. Right now HR is amazing ... on the Strength based Dwarf I've been playing, it'll be even better on a Charisma based PDK.

    For Epic destinies, I prefer Divine Crusader as it synergies extremely well with Paladin and everything important from LD can be twisted.
    Last edited by palladin9479; 03-25-2020 at 11:16 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Separate post because the previous was getting long with the DDOBuilder paste.

    The reason we go Vanguard core is Shield Champion

    Shield Champion: While shield is equipped: +2 attack, +2 damage, +5% doublestrike, +1(W) to your shield, an additional +5% (total 20%) Combat Style bonus to Melee Attack Speed, and shield bash stuns 10% of the time DC (10 + 1/2 Character lvl + strength modifier + stun bonus)
    That is a lot of power, especially the combat style attack speed and +1W to that already powerful [2D10+10] die. The stun is the real beauty, approximately once every 10-12s you get a stun on the enemy with a really nice DC. Remember we're already wearing +Stunning gear and getting a tactics DC bonus from both PDK and Divine Might. Unfortunately the T5's kinda suck compared to KoTC so we gotta spend AP in lower tier stuff to qualify for the capstone.
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  18. #18

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    I imagine shield grazing hits would **** me off a lot, that's a big DPS loss if you're building a build around shield bashing...
    Str-based is the only way for maximum shield DPS atm.
    If I were to try a Cha-based PDK, I would either go G.sword or SWF+Orb. Great DPS, Tactics and max Holy Ret DC.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komradkillingmachine View Post
    I imagine shield grazing hits would **** me off a lot, that's a big DPS loss if you're building a build around shield bashing...
    Str-based is the only way for maximum shield DPS atm.
    If I were to try a Cha-based PDK, I would either go G.sword or SWF+Orb. Great DPS, Tactics and max Holy Ret DC.
    Yeah generally speaking Cha PDK builds are best on THF or SWF, but they specified PDK Vanguard so I built a viable one.

    Just confirmed, A Dance with Flowers +1W works with Shields. That makes Legendary Best Defense 7.8W[2D10+10] or 163.8 base damage, before anything else is added to it. For comparison by Blackrazor has 8.3W[2D6+4] or 91.3 base damage.

    Also Confront any Foe is amazing, each of it's three swings get a double strike chance, I'm usually hitting 5 to 6 swings per activation.
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