Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31
  1. #1
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,535

    Default Loot confuses me

    The way loot is set up right now confuses me greatly. All the random loot is basically terrible and drops higher than your level so you can't use it. Then you updated cannith crafting and now I don't even need named items because I can craft strength of constitution belt with insightful constitution.

    Except weapons. Because weapons can get vorpal. At level 1.
    I can have a keen vorpal with a red slot and icy burst at level 1, possibly an alchemical ritual too. Nice. But banishing, disruption etc were too strong? Named weapons are... +1 cold damage.

    So since everything is so borked anyway, why can't I have a nightmare weapon? Desert sands or mangling or toxic or crusader? Why can't I have a sundering ooze or superior stability or crippling armor? I mean, even old riptide of lacerating weapons are junk now.

    All I'm saying is, can I have a minimum level 1 invisibility guard item please. Thanks.

    PS: nobody cares about cap stuff because every new (legendary) pack, your old gear is useless and you were gonna tr anyway so it's quite possible that your level 1 or 10 items are better than your ultra umber level 28 items

    PS2: Yes, it's better than the ghostbane era but back then icy burst on wondrous reduced the minimum level into something exciting so you were still looking for them. Also, I hate you for ruining my old red fens weapons but yeah, keen of vorpal repeater is better than +2 of monstrous bane no minimum level.

    PS3: Music box should have been no minimum level, it's balanced by the level of the augments. Chronoscope trinket should have been no minimum level too, obviously!
    Social Justice W...arlock (5e toon)
    OkarisRage, Artificer with 3 druid past lives = <3

  2. #2

    Default

    Ravenloft kind of killed a lot of systems, too OP, bloated stats, free ML10 undead killer

    And it was entirely unnecessary
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (>17), Naerfelka (>21)
    wounded and burnt from many mistakes and still stumbling!


  3. #3
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somwehere where there is LOTS of rakija.
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    The way loot is set up right now confuses me greatly. All the random loot is basically terrible and drops higher than your level so you can't use it. Then you updated cannith crafting and now I don't even need named items because I can craft strength of constitution belt with insightful constitution.
    FYI CC at ML 30, power level 34 is 15 enh + 7 insight.

    Ravenloft is 19 enh + 9 insight + 4 qual at lvl 29

    Sharn is 21 enh + 10 insight + 4 qual (IIRC) at lvl 29

    And these are just ability scores. And without counting raid loot.
    This is reason many complain about power creep.

    Personally I have no issues with power creep, since if I wanna "challenge" I can always make up "rules".

  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    27,309

    Default

    I'm speculating you're on the heroic reincarnation train, as endgame loot outclasses what can be crafted for most slots.

    Not as much power creep pre-20 as it would start to invalidate post-20 gear (though there still is power creep).
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  5. #5
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,535

    Default

    I think both of you guys missed the part about 'not talking about end game'. I mentioned end game gear doesn't matter at all as it changes every new pack
    Social Justice W...arlock (5e toon)
    OkarisRage, Artificer with 3 druid past lives = <3

  6. #6

    Default

    The one thing I miss from the Feather Of Sun days were all those cool composed affixes and suffixes that added all kinds of interesting modifiers.

    Affixes and suffixes have gotten so bland and generic. No bursts, no blasts, I haven't seen banishing/disruption/smiting in forever except on the occasional legacy named item.
    Kobold sentient jewel still hate you.

  7. #7
    Community Member Mofus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    746

    Default

    The only issue I've had with gear, is mid epic gear. Not a lot of good stuff for levels 22-27. Maybe I'm missing some thing, but most e-star gear seems lack luster now a days. I would like to see some 24ish level loot quests.
    Darkwinn, Milkus, Terismina, Gothmawg, Dreylock, Drunarah, Bigbhamboo, etc on Sarlona / Brixlynn, Mofus, Curgoth, Deidlit, etc on Ghalanda.

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    The way loot is set up right now confuses me greatly. All the random loot is basically terrible and drops higher than your level so you can't use it. Then you updated cannith crafting and now I don't even need named items because I can craft strength of constitution belt with insightful constitution.

    Except weapons. Because weapons can get vorpal. At level 1.
    I can have a keen vorpal with a red slot and icy burst at level 1, possibly an alchemical ritual too. Nice. But banishing, disruption etc were too strong? Named weapons are... +1 cold damage.

    So since everything is so borked anyway, why can't I have a nightmare weapon? Desert sands or mangling or toxic or crusader? Why can't I have a sundering ooze or superior stability or crippling armor? I mean, even old riptide of lacerating weapons are junk now.

    All I'm saying is, can I have a minimum level 1 invisibility guard item please. Thanks.

    PS: nobody cares about cap stuff because every new (legendary) pack, your old gear is useless and you were gonna tr anyway so it's quite possible that your level 1 or 10 items are better than your ultra umber level 28 items

    PS2: Yes, it's better than the ghostbane era but back then icy burst on wondrous reduced the minimum level into something exciting so you were still looking for them. Also, I hate you for ruining my old red fens weapons but yeah, keen of vorpal repeater is better than +2 of monstrous bane no minimum level.

    PS3: Music box should have been no minimum level, it's balanced by the level of the augments. Chronoscope trinket should have been no minimum level too, obviously!

    Yes to virtually all of this. Its all a bit if a shambles.

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    All the random loot is basically terrible
    Yes and sad enough, it is that way for a long time now.

    Personally I dont even look at random loot anymore. No matter if I am Level 1 or 30. In most cases I dont even pick up Random loot to sell it. I just take the gold coins and gems because it does not fill my inventory.

    Back when the Underdark expansion came out, the random loot system was great (with all the interesting names and possibilitys). But the developers know that. Because we said that again and again in numerous threads here over the last 6-7 years.

    There must be a reason why they hated that loot system. What we have now is better than what we had in the ghost-bane era, no question. But compared to the great loot of the MotU era its junk.
    Orien: Drache-V36, Merkades-V6 , Askasia-Cleric

  10. #10
    Community Member Goalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Clickies.
    The problem with focusing on the most extreme of players is that that group will only get smaller and smaller... Oof
    You know you have a problem when a virtual fantasy game ruins your concept of real world money and its value.

  11. #11
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,343

    Default

    Tiered loot systems are not exciting, hard to extend and maintain, that's why most big ARPGs use overlapping systems and tradeoffs ( on the highend stuff). In the overlapping design schema no system is abandonware, and has the chance to rarely produce super amazing stuff.

    No problem with updates either, the system allows easy extension at any given level, due to the best pulls featuring tradeoffs ( no generic BiS for "all content" is produced ), and generally the stats are granular enough that a perfect affix combo + socket + metal + other system specific stat is unlikely, but it also very likely to pull somewhere in the range to get a better pull -- just by playing the game at level content, no need to farm the same quest 140 times.

    Static loot missing from RNG ( hasnt been maintained), rand loot used to drop Frostbrand, Sun blade, Gauntlets of Ogrepower, Ring of regeneration, Ioun stones, etc... if these were maintained and scaled, it would help a lot making looting a lot more interesting.
    There is no shame in pain.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,928

    Default

    Yeah random loot is an afterthought except for a few specific cases where random loot can drop with more useful affixes than named items or crafted. Like you said, low-level Vorpals are still good because crafted weapon tables dont give you many useful affixes, and named item scaling is capped very low at that range.

    I think the most valuable random items, though, would be boots with 25/30% Striding and Master Craft to get their level as low as possible...for some reason runspeed (despite being nearly entirely just a QOL affix) is kept really inaccessible through Heroic. You cant craft 30% till the end of Heroic, augments either, named items dont drop with it till L14 outside of deprecated raid items - but for some reason random boots can still have it as low as like L7

  13. #13
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    4,548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Ravenloft kind of killed a lot of systems, too OP, bloated stats, free ML10 undead killer

    And it was entirely unnecessary

    The bloat actually started in earnest with the release of Slavelords. Before that...power creep was just that...a slow creep. Now it's a race to see how powerful items they can release.
    Leader of Legion of Eberron on Cannith.

    Characters: Loromir & Baldomir....among others.

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofus View Post
    The only issue I've had with gear, is mid epic gear. Not a lot of good stuff for levels 22-27. Maybe I'm missing some thing, but most e-star gear seems lack luster now a days. I would like to see some 24ish level loot quests.
    Agreed. Nobody complains because they craft all their mid epic gear.
    Toon on cannith

  15. #15
    Community Member glmfw1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,964

    Default

    The main problem that I see with random loot is that it is too random.

    DDO has 9 alignments, even if we can only play 6 of them. NPCs don't have that restriction, so behind the scenes, in theory, we should have NPC crafters of all alignments making item for loot drops. This should result in 8 out of the 9 alignments (~89% of crafters) producing fairly useful items, with synergy in the abilities. That leaves 11% Chaotic Neutral crafters... most of them will be Neutral because they have no preference between Good and Evil aims and Chaotic because they don't like following Laws for the sake of them. Only a small proportion of the CN crafters will fall into to the "Chaotic because I'm completely random" category, because they still need to maintain a basic level of sanity in order to be able to follow crafting procedures correctly. So were talking (being generous) about 10% of the CN crafters crafting at random, or ~1% of the total NPC crafting population.

    On top of that, NPC adventurers and monsters (the presumable original source of most of the random loot) would either have self crafted their loot or bought it from the NPC Auction House or direct from the crafters, meaning even less of the loot would be generated completely at random, as they would pick from the 99% of useful stuff rather than the 1% completely random.

    This means only ~0.5% maximum lootgen should be completely random. All the rest should be with abilities that are synergistic or of use to the same character class/build. This means that, just because an effect can go on a suffix slot it shouldn't go there if it doesn't fit with the prefix.

    Each ability needs to be linked with other abilities that make sense. Rather than a random roll on Prefix, Suffix and Extra, there should be limits, e.g.
    • Roll 1d400
      • If result is 1 or 400, roll all abilities at Random
      • If result is 2-200 roll prefix first, then roll suffix from list of linked abilities, then roll extra from list of linked abilities if ML10+
      • If result is 201-399 roll suffix first, then roll prefix from list of linked abilities, then roll extra from list of linked abilities if ML10+
    • Roll for augment slots

    Lists of linked abilities could ensure you don't end up with Healing Amp on random docents or Repair Amp on random armours or boosts to perform (bard specific) and light spells (Divine specific) on the same item, except in the rarest of cases. Generally niche items for specific builds are needed for multi-classes played by expert players who already have the crafting levels to be able to make the items themselves.
    The lists of linked abilities could be fairly expansive, but at least exclude options that made no sense - you'll still end up with unusual items, but you shouldn't end up with pointless ones (or that only have one relevant ability) as happens at present.
    If the abilities make sense, then the people who get them can save them for when they would be useful OR sell on the Auction House and find people wanting to buy them to actually use, rather than burn to gain crafting levels.

    If the system already contains this functionality, then the lists definitely need to be seriously reviewed, as pointless combinations come up way too often and useful ones far too little.
    Last edited by glmfw1; 01-31-2020 at 10:07 AM.
    Bettayne Brah'dukcc, Cleric of Lathander
    Today is the first day of the rest of your life

    For DDO Queries, check out ddowiki.com; New to the game? Head to the Newbie Guide

  16. #16
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Ravenloft kind of killed a lot of systems, too OP, bloated stats, free ML10 undead killer

    And it was entirely unnecessary
    Yup, one of the stats hit hard is Accuracy (to hit),

    before: Accuracy is useless
    now: Can't have enough Accuracy

    Max CC values: 23+11
    Current named values: 33 + 16 + 8 (+2 if raid gear but that is totally fine)

    The real kicker tho is deception in RNG and CC ...where things get really downhill. 16+8 ( +4 only on raid gear thats ...ok)


    I am fairly sure the debuffer proc also used to drop in RNG ( at one point if i recall correctly), checking wiki:

    Quote Originally Posted by ddowiki.com
    Destroying
    Found on: Armor as a Prefix

    Base price modifier: +4

    Effect: On Hit: Your target gains a stack of Armor Destruction.
    There is no shame in pain.

  17. #17
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,343

    Default

    Looted these running epic wheloon . I would expect more useful items from expansion content's loots... they are also RNG rolled so useful combinations are very limited. I would say they are roughly <15 heroic loot level in power right now, they bind to character (super bad thing alone), dont know if they can come with augment slots and metal flags but i guess it does not matter until they are up on par with similar level drops.

    I know everyone gets excited for new stuff, but honestly these things need healthcare badly.

    There is no shame in pain.

  18. #18
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,535

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Looted these running epic wheloon . I would expect more useful items from expansion content's loots... they are also RNG rolled so useful combinations are very limited. I would say they are roughly <15 heroic loot level in power right now, they bind to character (super bad thing alone), dont know if they can come with augment slots and metal flags but i guess it does not matter until they are up on par with similar level drops.

    I know everyone gets excited for new stuff, but honestly these things need healthcare badly.

    Oh, those were recently nerfed to oblivion. I actually got a mythic +4 greatsword out of there but there are not even vendor trash.
    Social Justice W...arlock (5e toon)
    OkarisRage, Artificer with 3 druid past lives = <3

  19. #19
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Posts
    2,507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    PS2: Yes, it's better than the ghostbane era but back then icy burst on wondrous reduced the minimum level into something exciting so you were still looking for them. Also, I hate you for ruining my old red fens weapons but yeah, keen of vorpal repeater is better than +2 of monstrous bane no minimum level.
    Thinking back, the ghostbane era wasn't so bad after all, was it? It kinda killed random armors, but at least the weapons were still fun...
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Tiered loot systems are not exciting, hard to extend and maintain, that's why most big ARPGs use overlapping systems and tradeoffs ( on the highend stuff). In the overlapping design schema no system is abandonware, and has the chance to rarely produce super amazing stuff.

    No problem with updates either, the system allows easy extension at any given level, due to the best pulls featuring tradeoffs ( no generic BiS for "all content" is produced ), and generally the stats are granular enough that a perfect affix combo + socket + metal + other system specific stat is unlikely, but it also very likely to pull somewhere in the range to get a better pull -- just by playing the game at level content, no need to farm the same quest 140 times.

    Static loot missing from RNG ( hasnt been maintained), rand loot used to drop Frostbrand, Sun blade, Gauntlets of Ogrepower, Ring of regeneration, Ioun stones, etc... if these were maintained and scaled, it would help a lot making looting a lot more interesting.
    ARPGs tend to do much better with this approach. I'm not sure how it'd work in to DDO.

    I think the whole thing ran off track with the cannith crafting change. Crafted should never have been top tier every craft, that makes random useless. Also it paved the way for slavelords being OP and fully craftable, which made every thing after pure number bloat.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload