Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 294
  1. #21
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    886

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    ~snip
    Overall good improvement to this tree however I see some issues.
    *First off when not fighting undead or evil outsiders this tree's damage goes significantly down. I would suggest making the things that trigger on undead or evil outsiders give half their effect for all targets.
    *The overal damage of this tree is still lacking, there is 7d6 light damage that scales at 200% melee power, I would encourage you to bring this up to ~10d6 light damage.
    *Their is very little melee and ranged power in this tree, add some more? Most dmg focused tree's have 30-50ish melee power.
    *Short term buffs like 10 seconds for 10 melee power are really annoying to deal with, please consider making all these short buffs last for 1 min or even passive bonuses.
    *I think you should make smites a LOT stronger, make them seriously pop! A smite should do enough damage to 1 shot most mobs. Perhaps make them an instant kill that bypasses death ward but doesn't work on red names?
    *Holy retribution was amazing pre-update. Perhaps you could make the cooldown 20 seconds instead of 30 seconds?
    *Favored weapons still feel like fluff, I think you need to increase the damage gained by using holy weapons.

    * Lastly and perhaps most importantly, I'm really disappointed that your reverting stalwart pact back to its original function. I really liked this change, I really like the idea that pally has strong buffs for combat.

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohagi View Post
    I am confused.

    Did you do internal dps testing on this and compared note's on other classes before this round 2?
    It's a good question, preview 2 kotc paladin is in a rough place, if the bonusii from 2hf worked on bastard/daxes there would be some synergy there. But even with greatsword etc as favored weapon 2hf on kotc is really sub par.

    even better divine crusader on a 2hf pally is even more dps loss than running fury on 2hf pally (which is lower dps than figher or barb still)

    as of preview 2, I have to call kotc tree DOA on the dps ladder, which is a shame cuz i love pallys and was hoping for some love
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    You like the nerf to our damage? I am interested in hearing more on why really.
    Edited my post and went more in depth on that.

  4. #24
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuzka111 View Post
    Light Damage in the Cores now scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, in addition to other changes below.


    so you guys know that on reaper its still will be like 10-15 dmg
    Yeah I really think the light imbue should be more of a focus for the tree. It should be a core component of KotC DPS. Or, like I mentioned last time, change it from Light to Good damage.

    Why cant it follow a similar progression to EK imbue damage? That's a proven commodity, and rewards nicely you for going to 18 or 20 Pal. Plus, even scaling 200% on MP/RP, its not going to get anywhere close to what EK (or VC) imbues can get by scaling with actual Spellpower, so I dont think it would be OP added to Paladin's physical damage.

    Make it a Favored weapon imbue if that helps justify upping the damage die...Favored weapons still really need to have a better-defined role. There needs to be some really awesome Favored Weapon attacks or bonuses (not just +1 hit/dam) to make people want to build around them. Otherwise people are just going to keep building around crit profile and taking whatever deities optimize that. Why doesnt every deity have a unique Favored Weapon attack in their L6 feat? Or a multiselector in KotC T5 a la Kensei's many pathways?
    Last edited by droid327; 01-28-2020 at 01:19 PM.

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuzka111 View Post
    Divine Might: Now costs 1AP per rank and no longer costs Turn Undead charges; it now charges Spell Points similar to this ability in other trees. Damage component now provides an actual Insight bonus to Damage (as its tooltip claims it do), meaning they provide damage to both Melee and Ranged attacks and do not stack with other Insight bonuses to Damage.

    pally remvamp should buff him not nerf...
    I dont like divine might changes because i like diiffence i dont want all classes with same abilities.

    Other changes seem really good. Probably blessed purpose 25 stack ( is it 75 melee power???) is too much. Ii dont want a future nerf
    In game in Cannith as
    Aborim Master (main toon) --- Nickallin (my tank)--- Jjnick (warlock 30) --- Nickpunick ()--- Nickruvido (my healer)--- Nickallinone (shuri build)
    KVP Korthos Village People

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Yeah I really think the light imbue should be more of a focus for the tree. It should be a core component of KotC DPS. Or, like I mentioned last time, change it from Light to Good damage.

    Why cant it follow a similar progression to EK imbue damage? That's a proven commodity, and rewards nicely you for going to 18 or 20 Pal. Plus, even scaling 200% on MP/RP, its not going to get anywhere close to what EK (or VC) imbues can get by scaling with actual Spellpower, so I dont think it would be OP added to Paladin's physical damage.

    just as a comparison , there is 14d6 -17d6 law dmg in inquis tree, which to be fair did get cut to scale only to 150% of range power.

    Also the divine might is a dmg nerf because it used to stack with insightful damage items, and now it won't in response to Lagy.
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  7. #27
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Everfull Flagon w/ my Eternal Mug of Mead
    Posts
    6,826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Paladins can’t turn undead at level 1.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Under no circumstances will tomorrow's work "fix lag".

  8. #28
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    just as a comparison , there is 14d6 -17d6 law dmg in inquis tree, which to be fair did get cut to scale only to 150% of range power.

    Also the divine might is a dmg nerf because it used to stack with insightful damage items, and now it won't in response to Lagy.
    But it now works with ins strength items, so the overall change is minor. Itemization might be the only issue as a lot of artifacts have ins accuracy and deadly on them.

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I felt that changing its functionality to be too far removed from Pen and Paper would be a disservice. If there's a way I can make the current functionality more fun numbers-wise, I'm all ears.
    Give it better scaling then? 5 hp/level is pretty minor even in low heroics, in epics it's a single hit. Also get us back that 10 mp somewhere? Also cleaves.... can you make them scale properly?

  10. #30
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    game/cdb/effect/effects-property-2.cdb
    Posts
    2,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Give it better scaling then? 5 hp/level is pretty minor even in low heroics, in epics it's a single hit. Also get us back that 10 mp somewhere?
    Sure thing. 10/level? That would be 4x its current value. Unlikely to give Melee Power due to conflicts with Divine Crusader... I'd much rather keep this spell as a defensively oriented safety measure than a generic offensive buff.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    489

    Default

    Yeah these changes are a significant nerf to Paladin.

    Please put the melee power back on Stalwart Pact, the community at large really liked it and only a few idiots complained. At level 30 it gives 150HP which is less then one hit from a monster, and 2AC won't do anything for ya, thus this spell is 100% useless in this form.

    Please for the love of god fix Divine Might, that is a really big nerf to paladin's damage. Previously it gave 75% Charisma Bonus to Damage / Attack, now it's giving 50% Bonus and has been changed to a bad category.

    And yes 7D6 divine dice is laugh worth, especially as a core ability.. Inquisitive gets huge stacks worth, even after the nerf.

    Unfortunately guys this is probably what they are going to go to live with. This is a group of Dev's who are notoriously resistant to positive change, especially if it wasn't their idea to begin with.

    The KoTC "damage upgrade" turned into a "damage nerf".

    Hey Guys, lets go foward by going backwards

  12. #32
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    8,515

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thar View Post
    a 4th level pally can, and this isn't worth a 4th level enhancement as it rarely would work vs undead...
    Clearly, you're correct.

    However, my goal wasn't to comment on it being moved to 4th tier. It was to comment on why it was moved out of the 1st tier.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hi Welcome

  13. #33
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Sure thing. 10/level? That would be 4x its current value. Unlikely to give Melee Power due to conflicts with Divine Crusader... I'd much rather keep this spell as a defensively oriented safety measure than a generic offensive buff.
    That wouldn't be close to a good value. Your using Character Level without any other sort of scaling and thus game goes through HUGE power jumps.

    1~9 is one range
    10~20 is another
    21~25 is the third
    26~28 is the forth
    29~30 is jesus level where everything is 2~4x stronger then the previous range.

    If you want Pack to be "defensive" then change it to +1 PRR/MRR per caster level for entire duration. If you want a "temp HP" once per cast type situation then it needs to be at least 1,000 HP at level 30. That might save someone for a few seconds against content they actually do. Really should just use Positive Spell Power / Heal Amp as some sort of multiplier, then it could in theory scale up with character power.

    The KoTC tree sorely needs melee power, other DPS builds get tons of melee power thrown at them while KoTC gets a little bit.

    As of right now, the proposed updates are largely a nerf to the current KoTC tree with a minor increase during Heroic levels. Or in other words, the Paladin today is stronger then the Paladin of next update.

  14. #34
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Here's our current plan for KOTC for Update 45. Our goals are to:
    • Increase the overall viability of DPS Weapon-based Paladins
    • Move abilities in the tree that augment Paladin feats out of tiers where you don't have the feat yet (Remove Disease, Turn Undead, etc)
    • Provide some incentive to use Favored Weapons as well as add synergy with alternate Favored Weapons from Wood Elf, Inquisitive, Divine Crusader


    Basic Paladin:

    • Remove Disease now starts with 4 charges/rest.
    • Level 1 Paladins get a Ranged version of the Smite Evil feat.



    Overall Divines:
    Changes to Deity Feat Structure have been made to bring alternate-Favored-Weapons up to speed with "traditional" ones, and to make respeccing into a new Deity easier. For Divines using their Deity's Favored Weapon, these changes should be a net zero change in Attack/Damage.


    • "Follower" Deity Feats (usually obtained with your first Divine level) now designate your Deity's weapon as a "Favored Weapon", grant proficiency with that weapon, and grant +1 to Attack with all Favored Weapons.
    • "Child of" Deity Feats (the level 3 Deity Feats) have been replaced with a single new Feat, "Child of Faith: Your connection to your Deity strengthens. You gain bonuses to Attack and Damage rolls with all Favored Weapons you wield. Simple and Martial Favored Weapons gain +2 to Attack and Damage. Exotic Favored Weapons gain +1 to Attack and Damage." Players with existing "Child of" Feats have had them replaced with this Feat. This feat is gained by the same methods and has the same prerequisites as the old "Child of" Feats.
    • "Beloved of" Deity Feats (the level 12 Deity Feats) have been replaced with a single new Feat, "Beloved of the Divine: Your connection to your Deity strengthens. You gain bonuses to Attack and Damage rolls with all Favored Weapons you wield: Simple Favored Weapons gain +3 to Attack and Damage. Martial Favored Weapons gain +2 to Attack and Damage. Exotic Favored Weapons gain +1 to Attack and Damage." Players with existing "Beloved of" Feats have had them replaced with this Feat. This feat is gained by the same methods and has the same prerequisites as the old "Beloved of" Feats.
    • Characters with at least 6 Divine levels can now take a new feat in place of the Active feat related to their Deity: "Search the Soul: You are seeking guidance to new paths of Faith. Passive: You gain +3 to the Concentration skill. As this Feat has no particular required Deity, while you have this feat (and assuming you meet all other requirements), you can exchange your Deity with a Feat Exchange (using normal Feat Exchange rules and costs).


    Knight of the Chalice:

    Cores:

    • Light Damage in the Cores now scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, in addition to other changes below.
    • Core 1: Unchanged.
    • Core 2: Unchanged.
    • Core 3: In addition to what this already does, you also gain +3 Remove Disease Charges and your Remove Disease now applies Greater Restoration to your target.
    • Core 4: In addition to what this already does: Sealed Life: Immunity to Energy Drain.
    • Core 5: Unchanged.
    • Core 6: In addition to what this already does: Your Aura of Courage now grants allies a +3% Sacred Bonus to melee and ranged damage. Blessed Purpose now stacks up to 25 times. +10 Ranged Power.


    Tier 1:

    • Extra Turning: Removed, added to Tier 4.
      • Replaced With: Holy Combatant: +1 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons.

    • Extra Smite: MOVED but otherwise unchanged
    • NEW: Shieldbreaker: +1/2/3 to Sunder DCs. (Sunder DCs are now used in Holy Retribution).
    • Extra Remove Disease: Removed, Added to Core 3
      • Replaced With: Knight's Authority: Multiselector: Active that debuffs Will, Fortitude, or Reflex. (This is a copy of Swash's Insults with different flavor, multiselector that lets them debuff enemy saves.)

    • Attack Boost: Removed, made multiselector with Power Boost in Tier 2
      • Replaced With: Knight's Command: +1/2/3 to Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Concentration. Rank 3: +1 to Fortitude Saves


    Tier 2:

    • Improved Turning: Removed, added to Tier 4.
      • Replaced With: Adept Combatant: +1 to hit and damage with all weapons. Longswords, Battle Axes, Heavy Maces, Morningstars, and War Hammers are considered as favored Weapons regardless of your religion.

    • Divine Might: Now costs 1AP per rank and no longer costs Turn Undead charges; it now charges Spell Points similar to this ability in other trees. Damage component now provides an actual Insight bonus to Damage (as its tooltip claims it do), meaning they provide damage to both Melee and Ranged attacks and do not stack with other Insight bonuses to Damage.
    • Rally:Unchanged
    • Exalted Cleave: Reduced to 1 rank at 2AP (with third rank's effects)
      • NEW: Multiselector: Ranged attack version.

    • Melee/Ranged Power Boost: Unchanged
      • MOVED: Multiselector: AB Attack



    Tier 3:

    • Improved Restoration: Removed, added to Core 3
      • Replaced With: Holy Combatant: +2 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons. Greatswords are considered as favored Weapons regardless of your religion.

    • Divine Sacrifice: Add +2[w], add in Passion's effects (upgraded): On damage: gain +15 Temporary SP and +10 Melee and Ranged Power for 10 seconds if you strike an Undead or Evil Outsider with this attack.
      • NEW: Multiselector: Ranged attack version.

    • Vigor of Life: REMOVED, rolled into T4 and T5.
      • Replaced With: Lead the Charge: +2/3/5[w], sprint forward toward your target and deliver a single-target blow. 6 second cooldown. (1ap per rank). This works like Vanguard's Shield Charge, but it's single-target and works with any Melee weapon.

    • Exalted Smite: Rolls in Empowered Smite: Your Smite Evil and Exalted Smite abilities increases Melee Power by 5 for 10 seconds.
      • NEW: Multiselector: Ranged attack version.

    • Ability Score: Unchanged



    Tier 4:

    • Passion: Removed, added to Divine Sacrifice.
      • Replaced With: Knight's Training: +1 to hit and damage with all weapons and +1 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons. You gain the Knight's Training feat.

    • Censure Demons: Unchanged (shifts right in the tree)
    • Vigor of Life: Now +30 Positive Healing Amp and -30 Negative Healing Amp.
      • NOTE: Vigor of Life now actually reduces Negative Healing Amp, as opposed to reducing Negative Vulnerability as it was doing before.

    • Empowered Smite: Removed, rolled into Exalted Smite
      • Replaced With: Improved Turning: You gain +1/2/3 use of Turn Undead per rest. You also count as 1/2/3 level higher when turning undead and add 2/4/6 to the number of hit dice turned. Finally, your Turn Undead ability now also deals 6d6/12d6/18d6 light damage to nearby undead. Scales with 200% Melee Power.

    • Ability Score: Unchanged



    Tier 5:

    • Sealed Life: Removed, added to Core 4.
      • Replaced With: Ascendacy: +2 to hit and damage with all weapons. An additional +2 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons. You gain 15% Fortification Bypass. Whenever you attack an undead or evil outsider with a Favored Weapon, you gain a stack of Blessed Purpose: +3 Sacred Bonus to Melee and Ranged Power that lasts for 6 seconds. You can acquire up to 15 stacks by continuing to attack Undead or Evil Outsiders. Switching to a non-Favored Weapon will reset your stacks.

    • Censure Outsiders: Bonus changes to +10 Melee and Ranged Power. Also adds "All other Evil creatures are instead Dazed for six seconds". Shifts right in the tree.
    • Vigor of Life: Now +30/-30, as the previous tier.
    • Avenging Cleave: Reduced to 1 rank at 2AP (with third rank's effects).
      • NEW: Multiselector: Ranged attack version.

    • Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution: No longer takes Turn Undead charges. Now only 1 Rank. "Melee Channel Divinity: Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. On Damage: Evil creatures may be forced to make a Will save (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses) or be destroyed. Evil creatures under 1000 HP must always make this save or die. Evil creatures between 5000 and 1000 HP have a 50% chance to be forced to make this save or die. Evil creatures with more than 5000 HP have a 33% chance to be forced to make this save or die." 30 second cooldown.
      • NEW: Multiselector: Ranged version


    Spell Changes:
    • Bless: Now scales with caster level - 1 debuff/buff level per 5 levels
    • Angelskin Now grants +1 Sacred bonus to AC and +1 Racial bonus to PRR per caster level.
    • Prayer: Now scales with caster level - 1 debuff/buff level per 5 levels
    • Zeal: Added 10% Doubleshot
    • Stalwart Pact has returned to its original functionality, now grants 5 temp HP per level instead of every 2 levels, and provides a +2 luck bonus to AC instead of DR 5/magic





    Known Issues
    • N/A


    Bugs Fixed Since Preview 1
    • Champion of Good (the KOTC Capstone) now properly allows Blessed Purpose to stack up to 25 times.
    • Exalted Cleave and Avenging Cleave's tooltips now properly mention their 3[w] and 5[w] bonuses.

    Hello,

    Would you be able to make shields also a part of Favorite Weapon thingy? I think there could be a choice what to have as a Favorite Weapon and it would be great if a shield could have it. It would make the vanguard a bit more useful again.

    Cheers.

  15. #35
    Community Member Khurse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Sure thing. 10/level? That would be 4x its current value. Unlikely to give Melee Power due to conflicts with Divine Crusader... I'd much rather keep this spell as a defensively oriented safety measure than a generic offensive buff.
    Are we going to get the other version you had intended to replace this one with (because as a player, I assume devs all have nothing but time on their hands to add yet more spells...)

    Also as mentioned before- I like and appreciate the changes to unify the Divine Might ability- but because this will remove the ability to use an insightful damage item, (replacing it with insightful strength) it is going to be a small nerf to Paladin DPS. And given the seeming likelihood of future Insightful damage items having higher damage values go up at a faster rate than insightful strength items, the nerf will grow every time something is added,

    Just wondering if there can be a minor additional buff somewhere to compensate for this,

  16. #36
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    really what you did to stalwart should have been done to Divine Favor, self only target dps spell. imho would have fit the flavor of the spell more.
    Silly rabbit, this is about nerfing KoTC, obviously it was too strong to be left as is.

  17. #37
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    game/cdb/effect/effects-property-2.cdb
    Posts
    2,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khurse View Post
    Are we going to get the other version you had intended to replace this one with (because as a player, I assume devs all have nothing but time on their hands to add yet more spells...)
    Honestly, yes, that's much more likely than me changing Stalwart Pact (a defensively oriented spell) into something more offensive.

    Any suggestions on the name?

    EDIT: too late, Torc approved "Righteous Indignation" so I'm going for it. It'll be the same level as Stalwart Pact and provide what Stalwart Pact did in the first preview.
    Last edited by Lynnabel; 01-28-2020 at 02:25 PM.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  18. #38
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khurse View Post
    Are we going to get the other version you had intended to replace this one with (because as a player, I assume devs all have nothing but time on their hands to add yet more spells...)

    Also as mentioned before- I like and appreciate the changes to unify the Divine Might ability- but because this will remove the ability to use an insightful damage item, (replacing it with insightful strength) it is going to be a small nerf to Paladin DPS. And given the seeming likelihood of future Insightful damage items having higher damage values go up at a faster rate than insightful strength items, the nerf will grow every time something is added,

    Just wondering if there can be a minor additional buff somewhere to compensate for this,
    Using insightful deadly is the smaller of the nerfs, the real nerf is the reduction from 75% stat to damage to 50% stat to damage.

    Before
    Charisma Bonus +30 = +30 Strength = +15 Damage * 1.5 = +22.5 Damage / Attack.

    Now
    Charisma Bonus +30 = +15 Insightful Damage

    This represents a 33% reduction in damage from Charisma sources that scales with character power

    The more powerful you are, the bigger the nerf. This change has wiped out the gains from the KoTC update.

  19. #39
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Honestly, yes, that's much more likely than me changing Stalwart Pact (a defensively oriented spell) into something more offensive.

    Any suggestions on the name?
    Divine Power for one, it's a useless short duration self cast spell.

    Any chance for you to fix Divine Might because as it stands it's a severe nerf to KoTC. Should be easy to adjust it's multiplier from 0.5 to 0.75, would put it back at it's previous power while not being breaking other builds.

  20. #40
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    Using insightful deadly is the smaller of the nerfs, the real nerf is the reduction from 75% stat to damage to 50% stat to damage.

    Before
    Charisma Bonus +30 = +30 Strength = +15 Damage * 1.5 = +22.5 Damage / Attack.

    Now
    Charisma Bonus +30 = +15 Insightful Damage

    This represents a 33% reduction in damage from Charisma sources that scales with character power

    The more powerful you are, the bigger the nerf. This change has wiped out the gains from the KoTC update.

    It is a huge nerf when you consider that nearly all 29 and 30 builds have +8 insightful deadly to begin with, so the first 8 points of trance insightful damage are overlapped.

Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload