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  1. #1
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    Default U45 Preview 2: Alchemist Bombardier Tree

    Hello, all! This is the First Look thread for Alchemist's Bombardier enhancement tree.

    If you haven't looked at the Base Class and Spellcasting threads yet, I suggest you do that first, then come back here.

    Bombardiers create and throw powerful elemental concoctions; these Spellvials have a variety of effects, from massive damage to stopping enemies in their tracks. Bombardiers primarily take an offensive role, dealing with large groups of enemies effectively.



    Core 1: Field Expertise: +2 MRR
    Core 2: Arcane Oil: All equipped weapons are considered Spellcasting Implements.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +5 Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Power. (No longer grants +1 Burning Ambition Dice)

    Core 3: Pick one of the following elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Poison). You gain +1 Caster Level with spells of that element. (No longer grants +1 Burning Ambition Dice)
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +5 Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Power. (No longer grants +1 Burning Ambition Dice)

    Core 4: Pick one of the following elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Poison). You gain +1 Caster Level with spells of that element.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +2% Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Critical Damage

    Core 5: Pick one of the following elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Poison). You gain +1 Caster Level with spells of that element. You also gain 1 Burning Ambition Dice.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +1 Conjuration DC

    Core 6: Multiselector: SLA for Multivial of (Element)
    • Passive: +4 INT. You also gain +2 Burning Ambition Dice.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +2 Conjuration DCs.


    Tier 1:

    • SLA Multiselector: Level 1 Vials: Crimsonite SLA
      • Venom Vial
      • Vial of Flame
      • Vial of Acid
      • Vial of Frost
      • Vial of Sparks
      • Empty Vial
    • Skills: +1/2/3 Spellcraft and Use Magic Device
    • Magical Subtlety: -20/40/60% threat with spells
    • Spell Crit Chance: Elemental & Poison (+1% spell crit Chance with fire, cold, electric, acid, and poison)
    • Wand & Scroll Mastery (as in other trees)


    Tier 2:

    • Rapid Condensation: Giltleaf SLA
    • Efficient Metamagics: Multiselector
      • Maximize
      • Empower
      • Quicken
    • Stone of the Savant: Alchemist's Stone Toggle: While wielding an Orb in your off-hand, you gain +1 MRR and MRR cap per Alchemist Level. You also gain +5 Elemental Resistance to Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Sonic, plus an additional +5 for every 5 Alchemist levels you have
    • Spell Crit Chance: Elemental & Poison (as above)
    • Elemental Defenses: When you take Elemental Damage, you gain 10/20/30 Temporary HP.


    Tier 3:

    • -
    • Efficient Metamagics: Same Multiselector as Before)
    • Swift Ambition: When your reaction is Pyrite, you gain +1 Reflex Save, +1 for every 5 Alchemist Levels you have
    • Spell Crit Chance: Elemental & Poison (as above)
    • +1 INT


    Tier 4:

    • Smoke Bomb: Giltleaf SLA
    • Efficient Metamagics: Heighten
    • Burning Ambition: When your Reaction is Pyrite, your offensive Crimsonite and Gildleaf Alchemist spells will ignite your enemies with magic, dealing additional damage. This damage determines its element based on the element of the spell cast. This ability begins at 1d4 damage, adding another 1d4 for each Burning Ambition die you get from other abilities. This damage scales with Spell Power.
    • Spell Crit Chance: Elemental & Poison (as above)
    • +1 INT


    Tier 5:
    • Elemental Obliteration: Crimsonite SLA Multiselector: Deals 1d6+3 (Chosen Element) damage per Caster Level to all enemies in an AOE. (MCL: 10) (Activation Cost: 12/8/6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 20/14/8 seconds.)
      • Fire
      • Cold
      • Electric
      • Acid
      • Poison
    • Augmentation: Passive: +2 caster levels with Crimsonite or Gildleaf.
    • Inferno of Creation: When your Reaction is Pyrite, you gain +1 Burning Ambition die, and your harmful Crimsonite spells apply vulnerability to enemies that have at least 3 different elements of Burning Ambition.
    • DC Boosts: Multiselector
      • Conjuration Focus: +2 Conjuration DC's
      • Transmutation Focus: +2 Transmutation DC's
    • Weakening Mixture: Multiselector: Pick a damage type (Fire Cold Acid Lightning Poison). When you damage an enemy with a Crimsonite or Gildleaf spell of that element. When cast on a creature that is immune to that Element, it makes them vulnerable to that element for a short period of time.





    Known Issues
    • Wand and Scroll Mastery ranks are giving the DC boost to offensive wands cumulatively
    • Some passive enhancements have square icons in the character sheet


    Bugs Fixed Since Preview 1
    • Efficient Metamagics in Bombardier are now 2AP, as they are in other classes.
    • Bombardier's Efficient Enlarge enhancement has been removed, as none of their spells benefit from Enlarge
    • The "Ambition" enhancements in each Alchemist Enhancement Tree that grant bonuses to saves now properly grant their +1 base bonus as described
    • "Stone" toggles in each of the Alchemist Enhancement Trees now properly add and remove their effects when you equip/unequip Orbs and toggle the stance on/off.
    • Bombardier's Elemental Defenses now only apply the highest rank you have, and enforces the described 12-second cooldown.
    • Bombardier's Elemental Defenses effect is now correctly named
    • Bombardier's Arcane Oil now turns weapons to Implements as described.
    • Bombardier's Augmentation now adds Caster Levels as described.
    • Enhancement-based bonuses to Poison Spell Critical Chance now work as described.
    • Bombardier's Stone of the Savant no longer erroneously grants elemental resistance
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 01-28-2020 at 12:25 PM.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo[*
    Burning Ambition: When your reaction is Pyrite, your Crimsonite and Gildleaf spells will ignite enemies struck with a damage over time that lasts for 12 seconds and procs every 2. This begins at 2d4 damage, scaling with appropriate spell power. Each element (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison) corresponds to a different element of damage over time, and enemies can have all 5 different DoTs on them at a time. They will each proc and count down independently.
    This is way off from what it says and does in game. Further off than last preview.

    According to in-game: While in Pyrite, Your offensive Crimsonite and Gildleaf spells ignite enemies with magic, dealing additional damage. This damage determines itself by the element of the spell cast. This damage starts at 1d4 damage, adding another 1d4 for each burning ambition die you receive from other sources. This damage scales with spell power.

    Is it meant to be a DoT as the two previews patch notes have said, or simply added on hit damage as it has been functioning in both previews. Personally, the DoT seems more thematically fitting with the character and the name of the skill, but looks like its being changed to just a small added on hit effect 5d4 total once you hit capstone rather than 5d4 stacking DoTs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezom View Post
    This is way off from what it says and does in game. Further off than last preview.

    According to in-game: While in Pyrite, Your offensive Crimsonite and Gildleaf spells ignite enemies with magic, dealing additional damage. This damage determines itself by the element of the spell cast. This damage starts at 1d4 damage, adding another 1d4 for each burning ambition die you receive from other sources. This damage scales with spell power.

    Is it meant to be a DoT as the two previews patch notes have said, or simply added on hit damage as it has been functioning in both previews. Personally, the DoT seems more thematically fitting with the character and the name of the skill, but looks like its being changed to just a small added on hit effect 5d4 total once you hit capstone rather than 5d4 stacking DoTs.
    It is meant to be a small added on-hit effect, not a DoT. We'll get the notes updated.
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    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  4. #4
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Arcane Augmentation II from gear does not seem to increase caster level on multivial ( looking at combat log report) with Legendary Firestorm Conduit equipped/unequipped. Took Master of Spellvials +10 MCL with multivial. It seems to be working well with Draconic otherwise adding +5 Arcane and +3 from element. Capping at 40 for the choosen element.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Arcane Augmentation II from gear does not seem to increase caster level on multivial ( looking at combat log report) with Legendary Firestorm Conduit equipped/unequipped. Took Master of Spellvials +10 MCL with multivial. It seems to be working well with Draconic otherwise adding +5 Arcane and +3 from element. Capping at 40 for the choosen element.
    Arcane Augmentation's description says "This item increases your caster level when casting (first through ninth) level sorcerer or wizard spells by two.", right?
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  6. #6
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    True

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Arcane Augmentation's description says "This item increases your caster level when casting (first through ninth) level sorcerer or wizard spells by two.", right?
    Any chance we could get something for elemental druids like this? some of the best elemental druid weapons have Arcane Augmentation which sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    ~snip
    It would be cool if the SLA in this tree where Pyrite . It would be a good way to re-set the alchemical reaction to Pyrite .

    I notice that there are +5 caster levels to Pyrite in this tree but no increases to max caster levels. How do you see the +5 caster levels benefiting players when all the spells are capped at lvl 10 or 20 caster levels?

    How do these caster levels interact with epic destiny spells?

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    does burning ambition apply to all the elements of the level 6 spell elemental reaction? If yes that seems stupidly OP. Like inquisitive level of stupidity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blah2 View Post
    does burning ambition apply to all the elements of the level 6 spell elemental reaction? If yes that seems stupidly OP. Like inquisitive level of stupidity
    Yes it does. it applies the relevant three burning ambition hits based on the three damage types it chooses. Basically adds an extra 15d4 (5d4 of each element chosen) total damage with the capstone to the spell. It's a nice bit of added damage but far from OP especially for the 30 spell point base cost of the spell. (not one you want to spam).The best part of it is the vulnerability stacking potential IMO

    It's stronger on multivial if you are going for the controlled damage as that way you can control what damage type the burning ambition does AND you get it as a SLA at 20 (20d4 of your chosen element you're specializing in vs 15d4 split into three different types).

    In actual application burning ambition is pretty lackluster on this iteration while leveling. Level 7-11 you get a grand whopping 1d4 from it. 12-18 you get 2d4, then 20 it goes to 5d4. Leveling, you barely notice its there as it's basically like adding a ruby of X to a weapon.
    Last edited by Xezom; 01-28-2020 at 07:56 PM.
    I'm a Bard... I don't just take down enemies... I do it with style!... oh and lots of Music Buffs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Arcane Augmentation's description says "This item increases your caster level when casting (first through ninth) level sorcerer or wizard spells by two.", right?
    Instead of creating separate kinds of augmentation item effects for each of Alchemist, Artificer, Bard, Clr/FvS, Druid, Warlock, and Wiz/Sorc, how about you change the existing Arcane Augmentation effect to "Spell Augmentation" and have it apply to all spells from all classes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    When cast on a creature that is immune to that Element, it makes them vulnerable to that element for a short period of time.
    This isn't thematic to D&D group play experience, since it produces no reliance or even benefit to grouping when the alchemist can solo anything with no high or low points with true damage. You are making an evasive, self-healing, AoE dps casting, AoE CCing, true damage dealing character, that sounds great, but has no reason for interaction with any other character.

    It also isn't going to lead to interesting play choices on a class with a variety of abilities. Oh, a giant, I cast fireball. Oh, a fire elemental, I still cast fireball. Hey, a fire giant, let's still cast fireball...

    Kill everything with max dps fire because it isn't fire, but instead true damage, isn't going to lead to interesting game play, grouping, and character building experiences. Maybe when a fire alchemist runs into a fire elemental, it should be the barbarian in the parties time to shine, and the alchemist should swap up to support the barbarian, and maybe, just maybe, even buff or heal the barbarian.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-30-2020 at 01:11 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Coalesced Magic filigree set says: +1 Caster level with Arcane Spells, seemingly not affecting Alchemist Vial spells. Just putting it here no expectation, clean up in the description if it is only meant for arcane spell books of Wiz, Sor is certainly helpful ( except for those like me who cant read )



    Edit: It does affect spells like Goldskin however, even the AA+2 seems to work, so my bad not looking thru more of the spell selection
    Last edited by janave; 01-30-2020 at 04:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    This isn't thematic to D&D group play experience, since it produces no reliance or even benefit to grouping when the alchemist can solo anything with no high or low points with true damage. You are making an evasive, self-healing, AoE dps casting, AoE CCing, true damage dealing character, that sounds great, but has no reason for interaction with any other character.

    It also isn't going to lead to interesting play choices on a class with a variety of abilities. Oh, a giant, I cast fireball. Oh, a fire elemental, I still cast fireball. Hey, a fire giant, let's still cast fireball...

    Kill everything with max dps fire because it isn't fire, but instead true damage, isn't going to lead to interesting game play, grouping, and character building experiences. Maybe when a fire alchemist runs into a fire elemental, it should be the barbarian in the parties time to shine, and the alchemist should swap up to support the barbarian, and maybe, just maybe, even buff or heal the barbarian.
    How often do melee have the need to switch weapons? Almost never. Encountering a element immune mob is extremely common. Mobs are never completely immune to melee weapons. I can't think of a single example. Partly because mobs are never completely resistant to melee damage because criticals = true damage. Criticals are "true" damage too cutting through even DR, get rid of them as well?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    How often do melee have the need to switch weapons? Almost never. Encountering a element immune mob is extremely common. Mobs are never completely immune to melee weapons. I can't think of a single example. Partly because mobs are never completely resistant to melee damage because criticals = true damage. Criticals are "true" damage too cutting through even DR, get rid of them as well?
    Melee switch weapons VERY often when they're fighting something that has enough HP to stand there for more than a few seconds.

    It's super common for melee characters to have a few weapons to cycle through as part of their attack cycle (especially with Legendary Greensteel applying buffs to the character or debuffs to the enemy).

    I still think that Tilo's argument is very wrong for DDO because "Hey, this enemy is 100% immune to what you do" is not at all fun, but I did want to point out that melee switching weapons happens frequently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    How often do melee have the need to switch weapons?
    In reaper you have to swap weapons all the time, since DR from mobs is after reaper penalty, which basically means you hit for 0 if you aren't using the proper weapon, with the proper DR breaking.

    For example, I spent hours farming up a Sireth for my acrobat alt, just to break good and piercing DR, even though my alt is capped at 30 with a maxed sentient Staff of Shadows. Swapping from a sentient Staff of Shadows to a Sireth is necessary to hit Rakshasas and many devils/demons for more than 0 on most attacks in reaper. If SSG gave my acrobat a double bladed lightsaber instead, which did true damage and cut through anything, it would seem cool at first, but end up boring as my tactics, pacing, and weapons would never change.

    Plus, my acrobat doesn't have a lightsaber, so alchemists shouldn't have one either. Swap to a different elemental vial.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-31-2020 at 11:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    In reaper you have to swap weapons all the time, since DR from mobs is after reaper penalty, which basically means you hit for 0 if you aren't using the proper weapon, with the proper DR breaking.

    For example, I spent hours farming up a Sireth for my acrobat alt, just to break good and piercing DR, even though my alt is capped at 30 with a maxed sentient Staff of Shadows. Swapping from a sentient Staff of Shadows to a Sireth is necessary to hit Rakshasas and many devils/demons for more than 0 on most attacks in reaper. If SSG gave my acrobat a double bladed lightsaber instead, which did true damage and cut through anything, it would seem cool at first, but end up boring as my tactics, pacing, and weapons would never change.

    Plus, my acrobat doesn't have a lightsaber, so alchemists shouldn't have one either. Swap to a different elemental vial.
    A. You could use metaline if you wanted and never swap, you choose to for optimization. B. Swapping for debuffs isn't used by 99% of the DDO population mainly because the devs don't make debuffing understandable, and LGS crafting is horribly implemented and misunderstood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    A. You could use metaline if you wanted and never swap, you choose to for optimization. B. Swapping for debuffs isn't used by 99% of the DDO population mainly because the devs don't make debuffing understandable, and LGS crafting is horribly implemented and misunderstood.
    You still have to swap for piercing/bludgeoning/slashing DR and alignment DR. A melee also generally has barovian weapons for mobs with dual alignment + metal DRs.

    When players deal true damage, challenge breaks. SSG implemented constructs and forgewraiths as a measure of challenge into Sharn. Which worked against melee, which had to swap weapons, deal less damage, and deal with innate monster DR and defenses and immunities to melee CC. So we had complaints about how hard it was to play a melee in Sharn/reaper, and melee was challenged.

    The problem is that SSG gave ranged and casters (Sorcs and Warlocks and Druids) true damage via the blunted ammunition quiver, true "law" damage, and elemental immunity bypassing, as well as adamantine immunity bypassing via augments. As a result, they had no challenge, and just steamrolled everything using the same tactics and attacks. Mob and champion DR and defenses and immunities were no longer a lever that worked to challenge them or change their game play.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-31-2020 at 12:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    You still have to swap for piercing/bludgeoning/slashing DR and alignment DR. A melee also generally has barovian weapons, etc.

    When players deal true damage, challenge breaks. SSG implemented constructs and forgewraiths as a measure of challenge into Sharn. Which worked against melee, which had to swap weapons, deal less damage, and deal with innate monster DR and defenses and immunities to melee CC. So we had complaints about how hard it was to play a melee in Sharn/reaper, and melee was challenged.

    The problem is that SSG gave ranged and casters (Sorcs and Warlocks and Druids) true damage via the blunted ammunition quiver, true "law" damage, and elemental immunity bypassing, as well as adamantine immunity bypassing via augments. As a result, they had no challenge, and just steamrolled everything using the same tactics and attacks. Mob and champion DR and defenses and immunities were no longer a lever that worked to challenge them or change their game play.
    I agree with you. There are augs for alignment as well. Crits still go through most DR.

    Wizards have no blanket immunity bypassing and I play one and struggle with constructs/deathwarded mobs. I rely on party members to help or I pull out my dagger and spend 5 minutes beating down a mob or I get killed.


    Reducing the immunity bypassing would encourage teamwork/grouping.

    Kinda the wrong thread to discuss this though.
    Last edited by capsela; 01-31-2020 at 12:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    I agree with you. There are augs for alignment as well. Crits still go through most DR.
    In reaper Sharn where the DR mobs are generally also high fort mobs like golems or plant zombies with fort = 3xCR = 180 or so, you aren't breaking through the fort to crit the mob to hit high enough to bypass the DR.

    You're pulling out Sireth, and wondering if it is going to break on the high HP/CR mobs before the quest ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    I agree with you.

    Reducing the immunity bypassing would encourage teamwork/grouping.

    Kinda the wrong thread to discuss this though.
    I dunno, seems sorta appropriate for talking about Alchemist immunity bypassing.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-31-2020 at 12:53 PM.

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