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  1. #1
    Community Member Rog's Avatar
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    Default If not a cap increase then what?

    over 60% of the server has their reaper wings most are going over the 100 point mark.
    maxed power max gear. new end game content is supposed to achieve what?
    i have played ddo since the cap was 10. when the server achieves the max end of the power creep
    it is time to reset the goal post and move the chains forward.
    the only valid reason i have heard not to increase the cap.
    the last time they did so from 28 to 30 they changed the level to epic tr.
    level 30 + is past the point called epic.
    i never want a new tr added to the game.
    i am still not happy with ingame handicaps to avoid power creep as seen in the monk you are allowed to use these handwraps but not wear the glove slot at the same time.
    to keep the cap at 30 is the death of the game.

  2. #2
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    something like epic destinies or reaper trees, which carry considerable power but have nothing whatsoever to do with levels, and therefore won't invalidate gear/quests or impair grouping

    guild wars 2 has had the same level cap for 8 years, games don't NEED level cap increases to survive

  3. #3
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    over 60% of the server has their reaper wings most are going over the 100 point mark.
    I'd be interested to know where this figure came from... is that from all servers or one in particular?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    when the server achieves the max end of the power creep
    it is time to reset the goal post and move the chains forward.
    Max end of powercreep on one character? Multiple characters? Who has done this? 1% of population? 5%? 10%? Not me.

    Also I resent the whole phrasing "move the chains forward". There's so much stackable grind and power creep its leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

    Something like Legendary Destinies would be okay so long as it doesn't add yet another level of reincarnation. Enough is enough.
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  4. #4
    Community Member macubrae's Avatar
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    Default Something's Suspicious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    over 60% of the server has their reaper wings most are going over the 100 point mark.
    maxed power max gear. new end game content is supposed to achieve what?
    i have played ddo since the cap was 10. when the server achieves the max end of the power creep
    it is time to reset the goal post and move the chains forward.
    the only valid reason i have heard not to increase the cap.
    the last time they did so from 28 to 30 they changed the level to epic tr.
    level 30 + is past the point called epic.
    i never want a new tr added to the game.
    i am still not happy with ingame handicaps to avoid power creep as seen in the monk you are allowed to use these handwraps but not wear the glove slot at the same time.
    to keep the cap at 30 is the death of the game.
    60%, 100 point mark, those are numbers only the Devs have access to. So either you're making those numbers up or you snuck into SSG without them seeing you, hacked into the system and retrieved that information without being caught.

    (To be read sarcastically) The answer is plain to see with all the winged toons everywhere I look.

    I am happy with the game currently and still believe that players play for content and variety, not levels. Story lines are so much more canon then levels.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Default

    Or we could wait patiently for them to reveal their plans rather than speculating about all the terrible things that could (but might not ever) happen.

    (Also I highly doubt starting a bunch of similar threads will get them to expand on their comments at an expedited rate.)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    something like epic destinies or reaper trees, which carry considerable power but have nothing whatsoever to do with levels, and therefore won't invalidate gear/quests or impair grouping

    guild wars 2 has had the same level cap for 8 years, games don't NEED level cap increases to survive
    Gear is invalidated every time they put out an update, that's not changing just cause they increase the cap.
    Quests being invalidated could be exactly the opposite too, these new levels would give the current 67 legendary quests more then just Reaper xp to which you can use. So instead of invalidating them it gives another reason to run them.
    Impair grouping, yea Ima say you guys who could run these 67 quests before, can't run them now so declining you from group!

  7. #7
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I'd be interested to know where this figure came from... is that from all servers or one in particular?
    Rog is on Khyber and I'd be shocked if it was even 5% of the server that has reaper wings.
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  8. #8
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    I'd be in favor for "get X experience over 30" and get a token of some sort. Turn it in for something useful.

    TR tokens, hearts of whatever, old-school weapons (like raiders box), new mount and armor cosmetics, etc.
    You can grind for stuff without it being level-related, which we don't need. We already have four TR hamster-wheels.

    If you want to make the game better, work on new races, new quest lines with a saga reward, whatever. We don't need more levels to split the server more.

  9. #9
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post

    If you want to make the game better, work on new races, new quest lines with a saga reward, whatever. We don't need more levels to split the server more.
    So you want to split the player base more by making them TR, but not by increasing level range. Everyone keeps imposing that this will split the player base through more levels. But ignore that unless they go over 6 levels added that nothing changes for end game players running the same content they can run. The splitting of playerbase would then not be the levels but the players themselves saying who can and can't come for the very same quests you're running at end game now.
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  10. #10
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    So you want to split the player base more by making them TR, but not by increasing level range.
    This made no actual sense, but we know what you were trying to say. We didn't say people weren't going to TR, what we're
    saying is the higher the cap gets, the thinner the grouping gets. It's happened every time, this won't be different.

  11. #11

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    if you have all PLs, reaper wings etc you win DDO

    I would give an option for players to build alts in some weird way like anytime you have a toon bank levels, let them build up an xp stone that is BtA. Hey we get xp stones on daily rolls for doing nothing so make them earnable

    I would also create alternate endgame so anytime a character parks at any given level, their reaper xp begins to double

    btw expansions are where the money is for them now and each one will thin the player base out too. So at some point this whole approach of theirs will collapse. They need to focus on new players and new player retention and how new toons can bridge the gap a little in a fun way
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  12. #12
    Community Member Rog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Rog is on Khyber and I'd be shocked if it was even 5% of the server that has reaper wings.
    yes i am on Khyber and this is a year down the road 60% might be a little high.
    with the people i run with it seems i will be at the end of the pack to get my wings i have only 70 points.
    well before the end of the year i will be one of the winged folk have all my etr done heroics iconic and tr's
    granted i have most of them already done i only slowed down to get my wings. it seems i am always last
    5% i think it is much higher since who and who do not have wings can be counted by guilds not individual people.
    mojomsucle

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    yes i am on Khyber and this is a year down the road 60% might be a little high.
    with the people i run with it seems i will be at the end of the pack to get my wings i have only 70 points.
    well before the end of the year i will be one of the winged folk have all my etr done heroics iconic and tr's
    granted i have most of them already done i only slowed down to get my wings. it seems i am always last
    5% i think it is much higher since who and who do not have wings can be counted by guilds not individual people.
    mojomsucle
    Yeah, no way it's anything like 60%, I'd put the figure at more like 0.5%, though that 0.5% represents 10% of the playtime on the server, and >50% of the composition of endgame R10-type groups and common in most raids. So I'm very willing to believe you're seeing 60% while you're trying to finish off your wings.

    Tricky position for SSG, adding more grind for you guys to do is a major turnoff to the rest of the population who are further and further behind, but you want something more to do as well. Less backloading of power in each new system would help. It certainly doesn't seem like a good time for a higher level cap yet, both for the people a million lives behind (a non-trivial number of whom will see another grindy stacked legendary-TR system as the sign to just quit entirely), and for the people who enjoy an endgame where there's a bit of vitality and raiding given there's now enough quests and raids to have variety while staying at cap and a level raise would kill that.
    Nistafa on Khyber

  14. #14
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    Gear is invalidated every time they put out an update, that's not changing just cause they increase the cap.
    Quests being invalidated could be exactly the opposite too, these new levels would give the current 67 legendary quests more then just Reaper xp to which you can use. So instead of invalidating them it gives another reason to run them.
    Impair grouping, yea Ima say you guys who could run these 67 quests before, can't run them now so declining you from group!
    not at all, for example people still highly prize loot from Ravenloft such as the Legendary Burnscar Sash, which was released two years ago. how long do you think ML29 gear will hold up in a level cap 40 world? put another way, when was the last time you used ML19ish gear on a level 30 character?

    and if they do increase the cap to 40, 0 current quests will give reaper XP

    more levels for the same number of people means less people at any given level, which means less grouping

  15. #15
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    Or we could wait patiently for them to reveal their plans rather than speculating about all the terrible things that could (but might not ever) happen.

    (Also I highly doubt starting a bunch of similar threads will get them to expand on their comments at an expedited rate.)
    when it's a certainty that the level cap will be increased, we absolutely should consider the terrible things that could happen and make it absolutely clear we won't like them

    maybe SSG will care, maybe not, but they definitely won't care if we say nothing

  16. #16
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    yes i am on Khyber and this is a year down the road 60% might be a little high.
    with the people i run with it seems i will be at the end of the pack to get my wings i have only 70 points.
    well before the end of the year i will be one of the winged folk have all my etr done heroics iconic and tr's
    granted i have most of them already done i only slowed down to get my wings. it seems i am always last
    5% i think it is much higher since who and who do not have wings can be counted by guilds not individual people.
    mojomsucle
    and if you had all your etr heroics iconic and trs done when reaper was released, you would have had a brand new avenue for advancement that would have taken you a long time to complete WITHOUT changing the level cap in any way

    that's all we need, ANOTHER new way to advance characters WITHOUT advancing levels

  17. #17
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    when it's a certainty that the level cap will be increased, we absolutely should consider the terrible things that could happen and make it absolutely clear we won't like them

    maybe SSG will care, maybe not, but they definitely won't care if we say nothing
    I might be in favor of a level increase. Of course there's an equal chance I would be against it. Since that's implementation dependent, I've yet to decide. Unfortunately, it's clear that hasn't stopped people from expressing knee-jerk reactions. If it's a system that runs perpendicular to the current leveling progression, it could bring new excitement and purpose to players who prefer staying at cap while not disenfranchising the current "TR, cap, repeat" system. Players could use some new end-game projects; this might provide that. In that case, I'd be for it. It could also spread players out across a greater range of levels (further exacerbating problems caused by a stagnant population) and invalidate current end-game mechanics. In that case, I'd be against it.

    Speculating about what it might or might not be is a fun exercise, but nothing more. Until further information is revealed, I believe the hysterics are a premature. In either case, I highly doubt player disapproval of a system they know so little about would stop SSG from releasing a more comprehensive description of their plans later this year. If those are met with such partisan disapproval, I have no doubt they'd be scrapped (unless, of course, it would bring a significant opportunity for monetization, in which case I'm sure they'd happily turn a blind eye and proceed anyways. Judging by recent activity, SSG has absolutely no problem spreading out the population if it means a solid revenue stream).
    Last edited by Clemeit; 01-25-2020 at 04:17 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    I might be in favor of a level increase. Of course there's an equal chance I would be against it. Since that's implementation dependent, I've yet to decide. Unfortunately, it's clear that hasn't stopped people from expressing knee-jerk reactions. If it's a system that runs perpendicular to the current leveling progression,
    if you would, let me stop you here

    after the peculiarly vague initial announcement that absolutely could have been interpreted as horizontal advancement, it has been confirmed that this is a straightforward cap increase. i would link you to this, but the initial confirmation occurred on Twitch (which is in itself pretty peculiar)

    with that settled, as well as DDO's history with level cap increases, i see no precedent to weight the odds equally for your (or anyone's!) stated parameters being for and against

    and i think that is the place where we disagree

    .

    as to what SSG takes into account, to me it feels unfair to speculate without more data. if we could, let us consider the THF changes: we're still getting Strikethrough, but we're getting a less facially worse version of Strikethrough (that is almost certainly better!). a pessimist would say they always intended to release Strikethrough V2 and only publicized Strikethrough V1 to make it more palatable. i would say that kind of second-to-third order thinking is pretty exhausting for both sides; better to leave it alone

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Max end of powercreep on one character? Multiple characters? Who has done this? 1% of population? 5%? 10%? Not me.

    Also I resent the whole phrasing "move the chains forward". There's so much stackable grind and power creep its leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

    Something like Legendary Destinies would be okay so long as it doesn't add yet another level of reincarnation. Enough is enough.
    ^^^ This

    I've been playing since Gianthold was cap, still haven't done a Shroud Raid. I have years of content to still enjoy.

    Back then I warned all the zergers racing to cap to TR to race back to cap to TR (ad nausuem)... that they shouldn't be in such a hurry, they they would be occupying barren terrain.

    I would prefer a year of maintenance and new lateral content to raising the level cap. Even the wilderness of KOTB has lots of room for expansion.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rog View Post
    over 60% of the server has their reaper wings most are going over the 100 point mark.
    Maxed power max gear. New end game content is supposed to achieve what?
    I have played ddo since the cap was 10. When the server achieves the max end of the power creep
    it is time to reset the goal post and move the chains forward.
    The only valid reason i have heard not to increase the cap.
    The last time they did so from 28 to 30 they changed the level to epic tr.
    Level 30 + is past the point called epic.
    I never want a new tr added to the game.
    I am still not happy with ingame handicaps to avoid power creep as seen in the monk you are allowed to use these handwraps but not wear the glove slot at the same time.
    To keep the cap at 30 is the death of the game.
    hahahaha

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