View Poll Results: Raise lvl cap?

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  • Yes

    35 20.00%
  • No

    140 80.00%
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Thread: Raise lvl cap?

  1. #21

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    Hard to say...when 20 was Cap you either; Heroic TR or just farmed Epic gear.

    When 25 was Cap you either; Maxed out Epic Destinies, Heroic TR, or just farmed Epic gear-this gear made previous gear useless.

    When Cap was 28 you either; Maxed out Epic Destinies, Epic TR, Iconic TR, Heroic TR, or just farmed Epic Gear-this made previous gear useless.

    When Cap was 30 you either; Maxed out Epic Destines, Epic TR (extra 2 mil to do), Iconic TR, Heroic TR, Racial TR, farm Sentient Weapon food, farm Minor Artifact food, or just farmed Legendary Gear-this made previous gear useless

    With the Cap going to 35? I guess they will add Legendary TR?

    The Cap will probably be fine unless the screw over Iconic/Epic TRing (again).

    Now level 25 gutted Heroic Raids, but Epic Raids filled the void.

    Level 28 further gutted Epic Raids.

    Level 30 added some Legendary raids and now we can short man pretty much all Epic Raids.

    Level 35, well more people will be short manning Epic/Legendary raids, only for Sentient food or Favor, the gear will probably be useless.

  2. #22
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmGhandi View Post
    Is gear relevant at all? For what?
    I can get to cap with basic gear... why should I worry about more?
    Why do past lives?

    The answer to gear progression at cap is the same answer as to past lives dude.
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, Sorc Build Guide, Ghallanda

  3. #23
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    Voted No only because "HELLLLLLLLL NO" was not an option...

    There is no "good way" to raise cap. They can say they're "cognizant" of the risks all they want...if they still go through with it, then they clearly aren't cognizant.

    I'm cognizant of the risks of smoking crack. Doesn't mean I can go smoke a bunch of crack and not have anything bad happen to me. The risks are inherent and insurmountable. There is no "good way" to smoke crack.

    If you raise Clvl beyond 30, you are going to invalidate quests. You are going to invalidate gear. You are going to squander YEARS of development that assumed 30 would be cap. There is NO way around that.

    The only thing now is to push and push and push for a system that progresses without changing clvl. 30+1, 30+2, etc., where you get stronger but you're still L30. Paragon for DDO. It's a proven way to protect cap play, and IMO the only feasible way to implement character xp-based progression at cap.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpittingCobra View Post
    Yes. I would love to see new heights. Eventually our toons will join the Gods and Goddesses for ultra mythic immortal adventure.
    Ultra mythic immortal adventure ...with kobolds, oozes, wolves, skeletons, zombies.
    After the Caught in the Web raid (at level 24), nothing can be more epic than that. Even the Codex and the Shroud is not really epic. The travesty that we are experiencing with quests being "Legendary" and containing super buffed trivial monsters should not be encouraged.

    As for the lvl cap:
    - Raising the level cap means more separation of the small playerbase
    - More separation means less groups
    - Less groups means people solo
    - People soloing get bored easily
    - People getting bored silently leave the game
    - When the threshold of minimum players playing the game is reached, the game shuts down even for those happy soloers that are enjoying the level cap raise.
    My main server is Khyber. Have toons in almost every server for favor purposes. The Faltouts

  5. #25
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadB123 View Post
    Polls are dumb.

    This is an MMO and progression always continue. I look forward to the level cap increase.
    progression doesn't have to mean a level cap increase, though. guild wars 2 has had the same level cap for eight years and they're doing just fine

  6. #26
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    I had to go with no. The potential downsides are obvious. If they weren't immediately they've now been well stated by plenty of folks who articulated it better than I could.

    I don't really see the potential upside either. Seems like there are other ways to add progression systems and things to achieve at end game without a level cap increase.

  7. #27
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    This poll is entirely useless and completely premature. It's not a yes/no issue, especially considering we literally know nothing about their plans. What if they
    • Raised level cap but kept the same amount of required XP to get there?
    • Raised level cap but made it optional (not required for reincarnation)?
    • Raised level cap but with strictly cosmetic rewards?

    etc...

    We can "vote" on this when we know more than what we know now which is basically nothing.

    Devs: "Hey we're thinking of changing something in the future that might have something to do with something maybe."
    Players: "OMG NO DON'T. WHATEVER YOU'RE THINKING IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA!"
    Last edited by Clemeit; 01-22-2020 at 10:08 PM.
    Population report: December 2019, January 2020

  8. #28
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    This poll is entirely useless and completely premature. It's not a yes/no issue, especially considering we literally know nothing about their plans. What if they
    • Raised level cap but kept the same amount of required XP to get there?
    • Raised level cap but made it optional (not required for reincarnation)?
    • Raised level cap but with strictly cosmetic rewards?

    etc...

    We can "vote" on this when we know more than what we know now which is basically nothing.

    Devs: "Hey we're thinking of changing something in the future that might have something to do with something maybe."
    Players: "OMG NO DON'T. WHATEVER YOU'RE THINKING IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA!"
    We know they’re increasing the number of levels. We know it will need additional XP for those additional levels. That was right in the producers letter.

    More levels to spread al already spread-thin player base is not a good thing.

    More grind is not a good thing for any of the player base except for the .1% that have “run out of” grinding to do even with all of the heroic class and racial and epic lives that we can do and the continued Reaper XP that they can earn either with additional reincarnations after having all the completionist stuff or hanging out at cap

    More levels is not good.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  9. #29
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    We know they’re increasing the number of levels. We know it will need additional XP for those additional levels. That was right in the producers letter.

    More levels to spread al already spread-thin player base is not a good thing.

    More grind is not a good thing for any of the player base except for the .1% that have “run out of” grinding to do even with all of the heroic class and racial and epic lives that we can do and the continued Reaper XP that they can earn either with additional reincarnations after having all the completionist stuff or hanging out at cap

    More levels is not good.
    It could be good, or it could be bad. That entirely depends on implementation, and I won't waste any more time arguing over something that nobody here knows anything about.
    Population report: December 2019, January 2020

  10. #30
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Would it not make more sense to build a reason to stay at 30 for a long period of time before you consider raising the level cap?

    I could see creating level 40 dungeons but that would likely bring complaints about them not being able to be completed by shortman groups (groups less then 4 members). But then with enough of this level there would at least create a reason to raise the level cap.

    Now what they may want to consider is adding an additional tier to the EDs, or maybe 4 new EDs or even an additional sphere. That would be a direction I would prefer before raising the level cap.

  11. #31
    Community Member ChadB123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    progression doesn't have to mean a level cap increase, though. guild wars 2 has had the same level cap for eight years and they're doing just fine
    It doesn’t have to be, no. However, most games I’ve played increase level cap regularly to some extent. DDO now has a lot of content at level 30+. I don’t think continuing to release a lot of new content at level 30 is a good idea. I’m not asking for more grind, necessarily. I do look forward to what they introduce, and I think we should withhold judgement.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadB123 View Post
    It doesn’t have to be, no. However, most games I’ve played increase level cap regularly to some extent. DDO now has a lot of content at level 30+. I don’t think continuing to release a lot of new content at level 30 is a good idea. I’m not asking for more grind, necessarily. I do look forward to what they introduce, and I think we should withhold judgement.
    Actually continuing to release content at L30 is the best idea. The more content you have, the better. There's no such thing as too much content available at any given time, but especially when you're not leveling up anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    • Raised level cap but kept the same amount of required XP to get there?
    • Raised level cap but made it optional (not required for reincarnation)?
    • Raised level cap but with strictly cosmetic rewards?
    There's no way to implement it that doesnt have all the problems people are citing....

    • Then that's just a cosmetic change. You're just subdividing the existing levels up more. Might as well just add more bonuses to the 10 Epic levels we already have. Plus, that still leaves you with a huge bottleneck in content after you level past current cap.
    • Then people are going to complain about "wasting" XP or not actually wanting to do L31+ stuff until they're "done" with a character. SSG doesnt have the fortitude to ignore those complaints - thats what happened with EDs. They used to wipe your progress on destinies when you ETRed, people complained about having to lose progress, now it just wipes your Karma and your spheres stay full permanently. They'll make it so that you "get something" for those extra levels when you ETR, and then its de facto not optional anymore.

      Or if they dont, L31+ will be a ghost town only for Epic Completionists and perma-cap alts, everyone on the TR train will loop back at 30. Plus, that still leaves you with a huge bottleneck in content after you level past current cap.
    • There's no point in adding numerical levels if there's not going to be some kind of actual power growth with it. Else why bother making it a numerical level increase? If you just link it to cosmetic unlocks, why not just introduce a new currency you could grind? Plus, that still leaves you with a huge bottleneck in content after you level past current cap.
    Last edited by droid327; 01-23-2020 at 12:15 AM.

  13. #33
    Community Member Katalissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    This poll is entirely useless and completely premature. It's not a yes/no issue, especially considering we literally know nothing about their plans.
    OK, think of the most basic, cynical, money-grubbing way of doing it you can possibly imagine. Now remove any lingering respect for the player base you might have, and any sense of accountability.

    What you are now thinking of is almost certainly a fairly accurate representation of what we'll get...

  14. #34
    Community Member macubrae's Avatar
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    Default Where is the creativity in that?

    I buy expansions for my family, points when they are on sale so the whole family gets the races, classes and packs that they want to have fun playing. We all have a stable of builds. A majority are at cap while we work on TRing a few at a time to keep them relevant. Give us more content. Get new ideas from old modules, new puzzles, more creatures, more pets, more racial variants, more universal classes, more cosmetics, more Monster Manuals, new locations, new weapons, new augments, new sentient voices, new mounts, new traps (log trap in Smash and Burn in the Cogs), more quests where torches light the way, more humor like the Roar Bear in the slave lords quest, more creepy story lines like Dead House, more good guys doing bad things like Running with the Devils, just get creative. Players don't play games because they have more levels, they play for content.
    DDO has, as far as I know, the most race to class options available. Anyone can be anything. Not to mention splash builds, dual or tri-classed builds to customize exactly what a person wants to play. Maybe it'll work, maybe it wont but try it out to 20th level and TR if it didn't. Reach out to old and new players alike and let them know that a 64-bit client is coming with videos to show off how it looks. Let gamers know that DDO didn't go free to play to die a slow death but to make it available to everyone with a good enough gaming rig.
    I don't know what content has to be approved by WotC, but get them involved and go to PAX. Use voices to narrate the quests so that it feels like a tabletop game, give more options in conversation so that murderhobo isn't the only way through and let the Devs get creative with the lighting, weapon design and armor.

    I want spikey armor and a returning throwing drinking mug (no alcohol mentioned).
    My wife wants a unicorn mount and a fairy dragon pet.
    My son wants more things to be mimics.
    My daughter wants to be a fairy princess and also plays DDO.
    Every time mankind makes something new, improved and idiot-proof... nature comes out with a new idiot.

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  15. #35
    Community Member Mofus's Avatar
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    Default Only if they consolidate servers

    No, unless they consolidate servers first..
    Darkwinn, Milkus, Terismina, Gothmawg, Dreylock, Drunarah, Bigbhamboo, etc on Sarlona / Brixlynn, Mofus, Curgoth, Deidlit, etc on Ghalanda.

  16. #36
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    Please no, so many ways this can go so wrong so few ways this can go right.

    As it is it feels like there are so many half finished ideas and systems.

    Also as it is their is still so many grind cycles left untapped if that what they want to do.

    There is also so much untapped potential for at cap horizontal progression.

  17. #37
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    Voted no for obvious reasons (like there's no need to raise the xp needed to cap or tr, but it will)

    Same way there're obvious reasons for dumbine to raise it, mainly selling higher tomes (without changing the upgrade tomes price lol), new otto's and adding 50-100 more pl in a hit (like they added 36 epl without doing much, in fact they could have tweaked existing pl instead of lazy adding 1 per sphere)
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  18. #38
    Community Member Vancy's Avatar
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    I also voted no. I'd prefer horizontal progression options, more levels is not the way to go.

    It seems that the results of the poll are pretty one-sided. I really hope SSG considers them and adjusts their roadmap accordingly. Probably not gonna happen though.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    Voted no because:

    • Endgame will likely consist of 1-2 packs for quite a time after the cap raise.
    • Invalidation of massive amounts of gear.
    • Spreading the already low population out even further.




    Counter arguments, though I'm sure no devs care what I say or what this poll says.

    • Just add more to current endgame/cap content. There's no reason to make higher levels. I'd actually like higher level quests, but keep player cap at 30 for some extra challenging content.
    • You can add to the pile of endgame gear, and if you add well thought out gear, it will be just as desirable as if it had +1 or +2 to all of its effects. You can even make ML30 gear or something if you really have to. The likely scenario will be there are now 10ish quests that have endgame gear, and everything else is trash in comparison.
    • You should be spending time figuring out how to consolidate the player population, not spread it even thinner. Add some method that allows players at cap to earn heroic/racial past lives. Just a spitball idea, but once you hit 30, you start amassing "past life xp". 10 million past life xp can be spent for the heroic, racial or iconic past life of your choice. Something along the lines, feel free to tweak rules/numbers. Either way, get more people in the same level range.




    One nugget of advice to the devs would be, at this point, DO NOT ADD ANY more quests/raids to the game until the level cap has been raised. Please do not add content that will be invalidated before the end of 2020. Get the level cap figured out first, and release that prior to any new quests/gear.
    These arguments are extremely reasonable. I still think there's nothing we can do to stop the level cap from increasing, but this isn't SSG's first rodeo.

    I just hope they digest all of the thoughtful feedback players give - take some liberties of their own - and ensure this next frontier does not invalidate, but strengthen existing content (and player interaction!) in this game.

    I voted no, not because I object to more levels inherently, but because the tentative prospect of "another" level expansion worries me. Gear invalidation, content invalidation... everything that seems to happen between levels 20-28 currently. Obviously I don't expect the results of this poll to affect anything regarding the choice to add more levels. But it can show the gut concern many have when they hear this news.

    I'd like to see the results of this poll months in the future, as we know so little now.
    Last edited by Drachmoril; 01-23-2020 at 03:50 AM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpittingCobra View Post
    Yes. I would love to see new heights. Eventually our toons will join the Gods and Goddesses for ultra mythic immortal adventure.
    Also reasonable. I hope new level 30+ content truly feels as legendary as that level would imply in pnp.

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