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  1. #1
    Founder salmag's Avatar
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    Default Well Played, Devs... Well Played... Did We Just Have A Breakthrough?

    Thank you for the 2020 Producer Letter.
    Thank you for up coming Shifters, Feywild, etc... It sounds good.

    I must say...

    Your timing was spot on releasing the Producer letter. It re-energized some of the forumites, myself included, and distracted the player base from the travesty that will be Update 45. Especially, if the IPS nerf goes through...

    So here I am again -

    PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT RELEASE THE NEWEST UPDATE WITH A NERF TO IPS.

    The Inquisitive nerf is a good start to balance. Hold off on changing IPS, at least until a proper range pass is done. One that includes buffing up long- and shortbows.

    I just don't want you all to forget all the pleas that have been ongoing as of late.

    Thank you for the Producer letter.
    THANK YOU SO MUCH

  2. #2
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    Timing is everything. The last update where XP was changed had everyone up in arms, then, all of the sudden, hardcore league was announced, and the XP nerf talk dramatically died down. Hmmmmm....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by salmag View Post
    The Inquisitive nerf is a good start to balance. Hold off on changing IPS, at least until a proper range pass is done. One that includes buffing up long- and shortbows.
    We'll have details about the longbow/shortbow combat style for this upcoming Lamannia (as well as a bunch of other stuff you haven't seen yet), don't worry :)
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  4. #4
    Community Member Inanout's Avatar
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    How about boarding pass?
    It was stated it was to be brought in line with the other passes.
    But why?
    We paid top buck for it.
    Protect the Silver Flame at all costs!

  5. #5
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inanout View Post
    How about boarding pass?
    It was stated it was to be brought in line with the other passes.
    But why?
    We paid top buck for it.
    When you bought it there was nothing listed about casting time or cooldown... or was there?
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
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  6. #6
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    I too though the timing was pretty amusing. When some fans just won't let go of an issue even after they have been told 50 times it will be looked at, throw them a a shiny as distraction. Basic dog psychology :-)

    SSG seems to be working over-time trying to clarify that they are still making adjustments. Glad to hear bow is getting some love at least. It might also be worth adding more gap closers for melee (e.g. by dropping the prereqs on Spring Attack), which combined with improved melee AoE might make IPS/ranged nerfs unnecessary anyway.

    Finally, a shameless bump for my own thread on how to better communicate changes: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...alance-Changes
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 01-22-2020 at 01:33 PM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmGhandi View Post
    When you bought it there was nothing listed about casting time or cooldown... or was there?
    Depends. If it was a pre-purchase than no there was no way to know anything about it. Most people likely believed it was like the bottle of mist. If however it was purchased after release it would be fairly easy to know how it worked, and purchase the larger pack because of that. Or like me, purchased the upgraded pack for a second account simply for that alone.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default Nice Dodge...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We'll have details about the longbow/shortbow combat style for this upcoming Lamannia (as well as a bunch of other stuff you haven't seen yet), don't worry
    Either y'all don't understand (or do understand and don't care) that ACTUAL gameplay using IPS is very challenging to use effectively.

    ALL y'all dismissed the arguments illustrating OPPORTUNITY cost for even getting/qualifying for IPS.

    ALL y'all dismissed the arguments illustrating what a complete train wreck IPS can be for ANY/ALL races besides halfling/gnome/deep gnome to get hits on uneven ground with short mobs.

    AND all the mobs moving at what appears to be hasted speed or some such and weaving in and out of each other making most of the non-targetted bolts miss most mobs.

    IN ADDITION, there is usually 1-3 attack animations with the dual crossbow style that do absolutely nothing in the time between swapping targets.

    SO much goes in to using IPS effectively on ANY build LET ALONE INQ. Any nerf to IPS...ANY nerf to IPS is a heavy handed slap in the face approach to "game balance" that lacks foresight and is SO COMPLETELY TYPICAL.

    Yet you do it any way.

    WHY didn't INQ get the same HEAVY HANDED SLACK-JAWED NERFS THAT WARLOCK GOT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    NERFING IPS to balance INQ knowing that ranged DIDN'T need a nerf is comparable to cutting ALL SPELL DAMAGE BY 20% to nerf WARLOCK

    SMH

    Y'all REALLY DISAPPOINT THE ESS OUT OF ME AND I LOVE THIS GAME

    EFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We'll have details about the longbow/shortbow combat style for this upcoming Lamannia (as well as a bunch of other stuff you haven't seen yet), don't worry
    Lyn, the bringer of enthusiasm and good news.

    HYPE.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We'll have details about the longbow/shortbow combat style for this upcoming Lamannia (as well as a bunch of other stuff you haven't seen yet), don't worry
    But what about IPS? Bows need love, everyone knows that - but that's totally separate from nerfing IPS. Leaving the IPS nerf as-is and then giving Bows some secondary buff isnt actually buffing them, because they're still losing 20% DPS from IPS in everything except boss fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    Depends. If it was a pre-purchase than no there was no way to know anything about it. Most people likely believed it was like the bottle of mist. If however it was purchased after release it would be fairly easy to know how it worked, and purchase the larger pack because of that. Or like me, purchased the upgraded pack for a second account simply for that alone.
    To be fair, it doesnt matter what it was, only what it was promised to be. Things that are can always change, that's something that's understood by everyone when they play any online game; otherwise the game would never get an update. Its only an issue if they promised you that the Bottle would be instant-use and then later reneged on that (kinda like how they said that 30 would be the ultimate level cap for the game...)

    The Bottle was never meant to be an oh-s*** escape button like it was being used for, thats why its being changed. That seems like a legit balance concern to me. Its a big concern for HCL, obviously, but even for SC servers it still cheapens classes that can cast Teleport (and actually slot it, as opposed to just scrolling it) since that is meant to be an oh-s*** escape button.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    Lyn, the bringer of enthusiasm and good news.

    HYPE.
    IIIIII was hyped for U45, until I saw the actual patch notes......

    I'm tempering my excitement for U45 P2 until they actually show me something hype-worthy. They lost the benefit of the doubt, at least for this patch cycle. I'm unconvinced they have a plan or even a sincere desire to actually improve ranged combat, other than nerfing it hard and calling it an improvement. No will to fundamentally re-evaluate their vision of what ranged combat should be, vis-a-vis what players want and what's actually in the game right now. No coherent plan for delineating unique rolespace for all ranged weapons (including RXB, which has been made obsolete in all the old rolespace it used to have). Deck chairs on the Titanic are all I expect right now.

  12. #12
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We'll have details about the longbow/shortbow combat style for this upcoming Lamannia (as well as a bunch of other stuff you haven't seen yet), don't worry
    I think the community would settle down on the IPS nerf if it was changed to 100% in first target and -20% on each additional target.
    Leader of Legion of Eberron on Cannith.

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  13. #13
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    But what about IPS? Bows need love, everyone knows that - but that's totally separate from nerfing IPS. Leaving the IPS nerf as-is and then giving Bows some secondary buff isnt actually buffing them, because they're still losing 20% DPS from IPS in everything except boss fights.



    To be fair, it doesnt matter what it was, only what it was promised to be. Things that are can always change, that's something that's understood by everyone when they play any online game; otherwise the game would never get an update. Its only an issue if they promised you that the Bottle would be instant-use and then later reneged on that (kinda like how they said that 30 would be the ultimate level cap for the game...)

    The Bottle was never meant to be an oh-s*** escape button like it was being used for, thats why its being changed. That seems like a legit balance concern to me. Its a big concern for HCL, obviously, but even for SC servers it still cheapens classes that can cast Teleport (and actually slot it, as opposed to just scrolling it) since that is meant to be an oh-s*** escape button.
    I completely disagree. That said my disagreement is based on how I and others I play with play the game. Rarely is there a time in game that dumping a dungeon is meaningful in any way on regular servers. I understand the HCL issue, but don't care about it. I don't think a HCL cheese tactic should change my QoL that I paid for on the regular servers. If it needs to be addressed for HCL, it should be addressed ON HCL.

    Of course anything can change. Which is why I lobby for that change to not take place. I will certainly be thinking twice before purchasing the large pack on the next expansion for each account.
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  14. #14
    Founder salmag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We'll have details about the longbow/shortbow combat style for this upcoming Lamannia (as well as a bunch of other stuff you haven't seen yet), don't worry
    I guess we didn't have a breakthrough...

    *sigh

    The "other stuff" we haven't seen, will still lessen bow damage by 20% if IPS is changed for all range combat styles.

    The AF change is going to make that worse, as well, but it will still be useful against bosses. [sarcasm]yippee[/sarcasm].

    I'll wait for preview 2, but so far ALL this does not look good for Bow users. Even with your repeated "just wait and see" rhetoric...

    ...sad times indeed...

    oh, but thank you for the producer's letter

    *sigh
    THANK YOU SO MUCH

  15. #15
    Systems Designer
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    Quote Originally Posted by salmag View Post
    The AF change is going to make that worse, as well, but it will still be useful against bosses. [sarcasm]yippee[/sarcasm].
    Ah, just in case you missed it from a different Lamannia thread, but we definitely heard your feedback about AF and you'll see the next pass on it in the next preview, don't worry :)
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  16. #16
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    I completely disagree. That said my disagreement is based on how I and others I play with play the game. Rarely is there a time in game that dumping a dungeon is meaningful in any way on regular servers. I understand the HCL issue, but don't care about it. I don't think a HCL cheese tactic should change my QoL that I paid for on the regular servers. If it needs to be addressed for HCL, it should be addressed ON HCL.

    Of course anything can change. Which is why I lobby for that change to not take place. I will certainly be thinking twice before purchasing the large pack on the next expansion for each account.
    I agree with you and your explanation 100%.

    MANY people bought the larger pack, or additional packs, for the Sharn Transport alone once they saw how it worked. It'd be like buying a new pack because it has amazing new gear, and then a year later nerfing all the gear including items already farmed.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

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  17. #17
    Community Member Inanout's Avatar
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    So I guess adding in a dance to teleport spell is in order then.
    On HC a slotted teleport spell works as a cheese move as well.

    The thing is it was claimed that the change was because a dev just thought it would be a good idea to make the boarding pass the same as the other non spell teleports.

    So is it being changed because of HC or because someone just wants to adjust stuff?
    Protect the Silver Flame at all costs!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inanout View Post
    On HC a slotted teleport spell works as a cheese move as well.
    Its not cheese because you're paying an opportunity cost to have that ability. You earned enough levels of a caster class and are giving up some other spell of the same level.

    Pass doesnt have any opportunity cost but an inventory slot, thats why its cheese, and also P2W because its a purchased-only item.

  19. #19
    Community Member Inanout's Avatar
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    The store is open on HC, hence PTW.
    Protect the Silver Flame at all costs!

  20. #20
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    The Boarding Pass was intended as a QoL item to get you to the Sharn area quickly.

    It was not intended to be exploited as an Evade Death During Hardcore clicky.

    If you bought it anyway, thinking that loophole wouldn't eventually be closed.... well....

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