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Thread: Pvp!?

  1. #1
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    Angry Pvp!?

    When will you guys implement more pvp into the game? this has been rather bothersome to me. I dont see your game ever being successful strictly being a PVE game. there are alot of people who would like to see this game have more PVP expansions. Gear, Battlegrounds or skrimishes, BIS GEAR! please answer this question for me without being closed minded..

  2. #2
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    This game ?

    Likely ---> never

    Justification: The amount of effort needed to create a credible
    D+D PvP game expansion FAR exceeds the money they would
    make from it. Dead in the water.

    sorry
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  3. #3

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    Not just no: HELL NO. An incredibly bad, ill-conceived, waste of time and resources which will bring absolutely nothing to the game: No fun, no players, no interest, no content. Just more e-peen waving schmucks in the Lobster throwing death spells at level 2s and bragging about how great they are, polluting harbor chat and forcing me to block them in droves.

    That's me being open minded about it.

    BIS GEAR!
    That would be the worst idea yet. The worst idea imaginable.
    Kobold sentient jewel still hate you.

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    [QUOTE=Matuse;6285584]Not just no: HELL NO. An incredibly bad, ill-conceived, waste of time and resources which will bring absolutely nothing to the game: No fun, no players, no interest, no content. Just more e-peen waving schmucks in the Lobster throwing death spells at level 2s and bragging about how great they are, polluting harbor chat and forcing me to block them in droves.

    That's me being open minded about it.





    closed minded actually because im saying to make it alot better than the taverns.. thats not the only pvp out there in this world. that like open world pvp but in a 10 foot area.

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    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    closed minded actually because im saying to make it alot better than the taverns.. thats not the only pvp out there in this world. that like open world pvp but in a 10 foot area.
    this is best explanation as why no.
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    This game ?

    Likely ---> never

    Justification: The amount of effort needed to create a credible
    D+D PvP game expansion FAR exceeds the money they would
    make from it. Dead in the water.

    sorry
    If you wanna pvp, you're in wrong game.

    I suggest Guild Wars 2, pvp scene is QUITE active there.

    And personally, one of best parts of DDO is utter lack of pvp (other than tavern).

    Played number of MMO's which were more or less concentrated on pvp development, and each and every one of them had horrible pvp community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    When will you guys implement more pvp into the game? this has been rather bothersome to me. I dont see your game ever being successful strictly being a PVE game. there are alot of people who would like to see this game have more PVP expansions. Gear, Battlegrounds or skrimishes, BIS GEAR! please answer this question for me without being closed minded..
    I would never take part.

    SSG would not implement something unless they can monetize it. Lack of interested players means no monetization.

    You can get a general sense of what players will engage with from the number of forum threads. PvP gets about one thread every couple of years. There is no groundswell of support for it, and it really isn't hard to see why: Just check the millions of threads about class balance.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    And personally, one of best parts of DDO is utter lack of pvp (other than tavern).
    Pretty much this ^.

    One of the most common reasons I give up on other MMO's I try is too much emphasis on PVP.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    closed minded actually because im saying to make it alot better than the taverns.. thats not the only pvp out there in this world. that like open world pvp but in a 10 foot area.
    Incredibly open minded about it, actually. This discussion has come up before - many times. The initial bout of forum whining gave us our current PvP. It was used like crazy for the first...month? And then became the realm of trolls and spammers.

    Now the only thing people use it for is testing DCs of abilities.

    Here's an already existing thread from July 2018 which covers the topic exhaustively. I don't feel like retyping the same arguments I made then, since nothing has changed.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ncentivise-PVP

    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    The only incentive I wanted added for PvP is that your characters are permanently deleted if you are killed in PvP.

    Anything else is a complete and total waste of what is already limited developer time.

    PvP is garbage in every single RPG ever made. Without exception. And "But game X!" replies won't change that. Game X has garbage PvP too. Worse, the garbage PvP always makes its way into PvE with unwanted and unneeded changes to classes, spells, and skills to satiate the never-ever-satisfied-soggy-diaper whine brigade that composes the PvP community.
    Kobold sentient jewel still hate you.

  9. #9
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    as a clarification

    I have absolutely nothing against PvP in the right context.

    but, as said, there just would not be money in it for the
    game company.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

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    You may as well play Rock > Paper > Scissors. You'll either be able to kill your opponent in one shot or you'll die. Not much point really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    I dont see your game ever being successful strictly being a PVE game.
    And yet it has for the last (almost) 13 years. And Pvp still exists, it's been there since Day 1 and no one plays it.

    Please show me any of the PnP D&D modules that came out all the years D&D has been around that include Pvp. The game was never designed for Pvp, but always as a group 'questing' game.
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    I think we just found the theme for the next Hardcore Event.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

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    U know, there're the same reasons to say no to HC league yet ppl are awaiting for a 2nd season, so far:
    - it's all about e-peen (you know, HC ladder, and ppl even asking to remove the store to have more chances to climb it)
    - waste of time the brings nothing to the game (true, PD didn't exist before HC, it was a brand new concept)
    - it would bring no money to DDO(i also thought nobody would spend $ in disposable HC toons and... Well, gimps tried to have some advantage with +8 tomes yet they died before 20)

    So for the pvp in DDO? Why not? I don't like it but at least it would make more sense for balancing than screwing the normal servers "for balancing HC", it would also had some mean for the nerfs

    And the most important things, DDO is closer to have some pvp than having endgame, so it was a shorter route to success lol i would be happier with a server merge and alternating between HC season and pvp season, leaving the merged servers for non whales
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

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    I think that the Hardcore League with the leader board competitions is the direction they are going for people who want a more "PvP" feel. These kinds of competitions use the PvE environment and the cooperative play that the mechanics are built around while creating objectives, rewards and rankings to give the community a feel of achievement and competition.

    I think that is the right direction for this game. I wouldn't mind seeing these sorts of leaderboard competitions done on live. For a weekend or week or something. Turn the Mimic Hunt into an actual Hunt, for example. Have a leaderboard that counts the number of mimics you kill. Offer a special reward for killing 50 or 100 in a week.

    Stuff like that. I'd prefer that to the straight up PvP combat/battle royale deal. The game is not suited for that at all.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer in Loreseekers and Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  15. #15
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    When will you guys implement more pvp into the game? this has been rather bothersome to me. I dont see your game ever being successful strictly being a PVE game. there are alot of people who would like to see this game have more PVP expansions. Gear, Battlegrounds or skrimishes, BIS GEAR! please answer this question for me without being closed minded..
    Where to start?

    There is no "Open World" for Open World PVP. All explorer zones are instanced. But here's what happens in OW PVP games: A group gets to a grind spot in a dungeon, pops all their buffs, and starts their grind. X amount of time into their session, another group decides they want the spot, so, when they're fully engaged with a group of mobs, the other team, with only the Tank and DPS flagged in the group, attack the other team. It doesn't bring anything to the table that's appealing here. I love PvP, loved it more when I was a bit younger, but I love PvP. I completely avoided it in swtor, because it doesn't mean anything. In Rappelz, we had weekly dungeon sieges, where a guild that won a siege could make money off the dungeon, until someone sieged them out. In Aion, we got fortresses with instances we could run, until someone sieged you out. What's the incentive here? More "nerf x" threads? No thanks.

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    Zero interest from me. There is already too much PVP-in-disguise in the form of competing for who can make the most OP character via PLs and RXP.

  18. #18
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    I've always thought that the Community should create its own Community PvP Seasonal League and for each player who joins to earn points for each "win" their group scores through Match Points. With the player at the end of the season with the most Match Points being named Champion PvP'er of that season.

    So for example:

    Each player is only allowed to register (post what their character name and levels are) and bring 1 character (Max level to be determined by the League) and must remain the same basic class as when they join the league (ie if you're level 20 Monk + 10 Epic, you can't change the class structure of 20 Monk to anything else if you want to continue in the league matches, but you may LR).

    X week season; reduce or increase total weeks for the season as necessary depending on number of players and matches desired

    Capture the Flag runs only

    Each team is made up of 2 (two) or 3 (three) players (depending on league player numbers that have registered and joined, but 2 or 3 ideal to keep players on their toes), randomly drawn from all available players. With no player being allowed to join a group for more than the amount of weeks for the league. This means that you're less likely to make alliances with players if you want to be "Champion", and you can never be sure any "alliances" made will not turn on you (especially if you get all your runs done early get to 1st place, but then is screwed over by other players). So it's everyone for themselves.

    Capture the Flag rules as primary way to win points within a match, with each side having "optionals" that are randomly determined that only your Team Leader Ref knows (who is not part of the match; they'll just hang back) that could score even more for successfully completing during the match (randomly determined between the two Team Leader Refs so players cannot take advantage of the other side). But note, other team also has such an optional given to them. Which means that the only sure fire way to "win" is to Capture the Flag as many times as possible throughout the league Season. Killing to stop the enemy may not be the best option (unless if you got that optional for your team, etc) but it might be the best option if you and your other team members are nukers for example (since that optional to gain points is unlikely to have come up anyway for the other team with so many possible optionals; but it could happen). Also, you can't any "friends" on the other side anyway, since they could be leading you to earn them extra points to win the Match Point. Again, it makes it that everyone is going for themselves.

    This forces players to either take risks and go for optionals (that may also get countered by the other teams optional; eg your Team is to get X player on other team to die the most +5 times more than the others on their team. But the other team is also X player must die the most and +5 more than the rest on their team). So you and they get bonus points for completing that task to win the Match Point, or work on ways to improve and adapt as they run the Capture the Flag portion against random opponents who have capabilties that normal enemies do not, as well as learn to work with players with abilities they can not rely on before hand that could be a liability or a boon depending on their skills in adaptive play vs players rather than random mobs in Normal/Hard/Elite/Reaper Mode that we learn to just walk over.

    At the end of each match, the side with the total earned points (from number of Captures, and optionals succeeded at) of greatest value, are all given 1 (one) point, the losing side is deducted 1 (one) point.

    At the end of the League, the player(s) with the highest point scores win that Seasons League and announced as Champion.

    Yeah, very basic and missing more complex details at each stage, but if players form that, you can then have PvP matches where players need to think on their feet and not just roll up the next greatest dps/cc/healing/sprinting toon. Since that could end up being a liability for each match and the chances to win it. Capture the Flag (PvP) is only real safe way to win. In short, bring your A game in every match, as you never know who you play against, what you play against, or who you run with, so you need to help each other.

    That's my take on PvP for DDO. More work on it from Devs that help that might be nice, but otherwise wasted effort considering the Devs are having a tough time with certain updates as it is. And I'd rather PvE content over PvP, since I like shiny new things to play around with in game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    closed minded actually because im saying to make it alot better than the taverns.. thats not the only pvp out there in this world. that like open world pvp but in a 10 foot area.
    Never going to happen.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by motni321 View Post
    When will you guys implement more pvp into the game? this has been rather bothersome to me. I dont see your game ever being successful strictly being a PVE game. there are alot of people who would like to see this game have more PVP expansions.
    Does anyone use the extensive PvP systems we already have? The Capture the Flag, assorted Death Match arenas, et cetera? You can already do PvP, and nobody does. It's not appropriate in this game anyway, but it would be a total waste of time to develop even more of what's already there and doesn't get used.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

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