Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33
  1. #21
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Your paladin is getting neutered in U45 in both heroics and epics. 30 Second cool down on Holy Retribution will cut your overall damage in half, and lack of light damage due to removal of glancing blows on THF is going to take another 5% off. You are in for a rude awakening when you load up a character that is less than half as effective overnight. You have a few weeks before it hits to reroll in advance.
    If it actually works in content over level 18, then Holy Retribution will be an improvement over today, but yeah, that 30 second cool down sucks.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  2. #22
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,800

    Default

    Reapers and or high tier Champions kill tanks
    in 1 or 2 hits. Before a healer can even cast a
    healing spell.

    There is nothing wrong with your Pally.

    There is something terribly wrong with Reapers
    in general. It utterly destroys the idea of a well balanced
    adventuring party. FYI, Well balanced party is what D+D
    was based around.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with your pally,
    reapers and champions DO NOT BELONG in D+D.
    When dealing with a devil invasion is EASIER
    then dealing with REAPER infected KOBALD dungeons,
    that should be a big clue that it should not belong.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  3. #23
    2015 DDO Players Council
    The Legendary Fighter God
    Cetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,342

    Default

    One thing worth noting, with higher stat-scaling in the THF feats (2x instead of 1.5 as of the last lamannia build), strength investments on a THF character give a larger payout now. Paladins have the advantage of having access to DM in their tree, as this ability has now become much more valuable. Fighters and barbarians who choose to fight two-handed will invariably have to splash pally or another divine in order to obtain it, essentially removing many other splash or pure builds that one may have otherwise pursued.
    Check out my Twitch Channel
    Argonnessen's DEGENERATE MATTER

  4. #24
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    One thing worth noting, with higher stat-scaling in the THF feats (2x instead of 1.5 as of the last lamannia build), strength investments on a THF character give a larger payout now. Paladins have the advantage of having access to DM in their tree, as this ability has now become much more valuable. Fighters and barbarians who choose to fight two-handed will invariably have to splash pally or another divine in order to obtain it, essentially removing many other splash or pure builds that one may have otherwise pursued.
    Capstones should be scaling 1% extra ability. So it scales with you as you level.
    Toon on cannith

  5. #25
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Cannith, usually
    Posts
    2,344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    Capstones should be scaling 1% extra ability. So it scales with you as you level.
    ...Unless you have >150 in your stat, that's less than the common standard +2, let alone the +4's.

    Highest stat I've ever seen was 202 Str, and with that build you'd still only get +2 from a 1% bonus.

    Highest stat I've ever had is 114 Int, so I'd much rather stick with the +4 Int from PM capstone.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    One thing worth noting, with higher stat-scaling in the THF feats (2x instead of 1.5 as of the last lamannia build), strength investments on a THF character give a larger payout now. Paladins have the advantage of having access to DM in their tree, as this ability has now become much more valuable. Fighters and barbarians who choose to fight two-handed will invariably have to splash pally or another divine in order to obtain it, essentially removing many other splash or pure builds that one may have otherwise pursued.
    So you going to drop those monk levels now??

  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    Paladin's roles Tank, Support, DPS.

    Pallys and THFighter sure seem to get some interesting responses in deepReap.

    Tanks are welcome in non-raids, if you can't get cc's as cc's are preferred for their helpless/debuff power, constancy and reliability.

    Paladin are not DPS in R6-10.

    Paladin are the weakest support characters in the game.

    So we the players are left with 1 niche spot for pally raid tank or if no cc's sometimes tank reap.

    The alternative is to make 1 of the options top tier while reducing others in this case 1 as support is already weak.

    So how to lower defense while increasing offense, simply give massive power to Knight of the Chalice Enhancements Core abilities 5 and 6 make them cost 4-6 points each, this will lock out the exact amount of Defense necessary to Make Paladin Great Again.
    Tanks are all in the same boat. There is no high DPS tank build in DDO, and that's OK, because high DPS tanks are broken. So, if you're in a tank build, you're doing low DPS, it's a tradeoff. The thing is, just being a tank isn't enough. Someone needs to heal you. Now you are taking your slot in the party and someone else's and turning them both into low DPS CC.

    On the other hand, a single CC caster with insta-kills can generally be just as effective in mitigating incoming damage, doesn't need to absorb hits don't doesn't need a dedicated healer, and can insta-kill to contribute "DPS". What do you do with the bosses? Exploit geometry or kite. The question is, how high up the difficulty ladder can caster based CC take you?

    The answer of course depends on the quest, but it seems there are enough legendary quests that allow R8+ in this manner to facilitate a daily high reaper grind.

    If you change content to prevent the above, then you're a "trinity game" that likely a good number of people don't want to see DDO become. So do you just jettison the tank altogether? Or do you allow tanks to become self contained and provide their own healing so they don't suck up 2 slots to CC? Or do you give the paladin/fighter defensive stances the same kind of treatment as EDF? With the stance toggled, your threat generation goes way up while your offensive stats are cratered? Then you allow Kensai, Vanguard, and KoTC all to be well balanced and good DPS trees (I think Kensai already is, it just lacks a supporting tree). Heck, add a DPS support tree for both paladins and fighters that bolster and support Kensai, Vanguard, and KoTC, give it a stance that augments your offensive stats higher you go into it, and make it exclusive with the defensive stance. Then you can finally stop worrying about people picking up huge defense on their offensive toons for a 3 fighter/pallie splash, you don't neuter fighters and pallies who want to tank, and you give them the ability to do something other than tank if they want to and the group doesn't need it.

  8. #28
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    854

    Default

    As far as high reaper goes (r8+), my observation about melee is that their DPS is largely irrelevant unless there is fabulous crowd control happening. I have seen incredibly good tanking where the melee doesn't even take damage most of the time, and can hold agro, but of course they do 0 DPS. Melee built for DPS die almost instantly. They also do 0 DPS.

    Increasing DPS options for melee will have no effect in that kind of content.

    A friend quipped that the new spring attack will boil down to being dead before they hit the ground in R10. He's probably right about that.

  9. #29
    2015 DDO Players Council
    The Legendary Fighter God
    Cetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    So you going to drop those monk levels now??
    Well, if you want to make the highest DPS version of that fighter - you'd drop 1 monk level and throw in a FvS for divine might.

    Of course with the MRR hit and loss of evasion that build will be dead everywhere, lol. But this way you'd get an 80+ charisma powered divine might with grandmaster fire stance on an 18 fighter.
    Check out my Twitch Channel
    Argonnessen's DEGENERATE MATTER

  10. #30
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Of course, ranged DPS will always be a better option than melee DPS in R6-R10. Dead does no DPS. And it is much easier to keep a ranged DPS alive. The KoTC changes to incorporate ranged might make some interesting build options.
    I'm pretty much okay with this . . . as far as I'm concerned the game part of this game pretty much stops after R5 and it becomes all about cheese. Some players are all about cheese, and the existence of stupid high-reaper cheese keeps them busy instead of inundating the forums with their whining about how the game is too easy and they want a "challenge". The quest design in this game has improved 1000% since they implemented reaper and that entire category of idiocy basically went away. Even if someone hates Reaper, they should not hate that we aren't getting quests like Tower of Frost and ToEE any more.

    This is what the difficulty scaling looks like to me:

    Casual = I'm not actually a gamer but I want to play anyway (good for you, hope you have fun)
    Normal = I just started playing *** is all this
    Hard = I've been playing for long enough to realize that I screwed up my build and I just want to level so I can make a better character next time, this game will not beat me
    Elite = Reincarnated toon's Normal
    Reaper 1 = I don't actually want a challenge but I don't want to give up all Reaper xp either
    Reaper 2-4 = I want people to die if they screw up badly enough
    Reaper 5 = basically how Elite was back before MotU came out. The Nostaligia Difficulty.
    Reaper 6-10 = the cheese zone
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 01-21-2020 at 08:34 PM.

  11. #31
    Community Member ChadB123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    I'm pretty much okay with this . . . as far as I'm concerned the game part of this game pretty much stops after R5 and it becomes all about cheese. Some players are all about cheese, and the existence of stupid high-reaper cheese keeps them busy instead of inundating the forums with their whining about how the game is too easy and they want a "challenge".
    Hey, one of those "cheese" players that enjoys a challenge here. I find it arrogant to say your voice and opinion matters but others don't. This type of rhetoric isn't beneficial for the DDO community, and you should be more understanding of players that aren't like you. We need rational conversation among the player base, not people inundating the forums with divisive posts. Logic and reason seem to have been replaced by anger and bitterness, and not much use can come from it.

    I've watched your stream, and I can say the way you play the game isn't fun to me. However, your fun isn't wrong; my fun isn't wrong. I invite you to think outside of your bubble.

  12. #32
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    27,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Post U45, the 20 Pally, 20 Fighter, and Bear splashes are on par or better than the Fighter/Arti/Wiz depending on which aspects you value the most. (HP, Saves, PRR, MRR, AC, threat, etc).

    Also, I think that the Pally DPS today is weak, but let's wait and see what the final U45 KoTC and THF situation is and then make a determination.

    Of course, ranged DPS will always be a better option than melee DPS in R6-R10. Dead does no DPS. And it is much easier to keep a ranged DPS alive. The KoTC changes to incorporate ranged might make some interesting build options.
    I can see paladin being highest saves and pure fighter being highest PRR. How are any of those being higher HP?

    The issue with paladin is basically highlighting the issue with melee. Do people want their "paladins" all running around with repeaters and double hand crossbows? While that gets the paladin icon back into the meta, its not really getting "paladins" back into the meta.

    Nerfing archers and arbalests didnt really address why the melee should want to go stand in threat range of something than can one-hit-kill them. I hope these AP line changes do a better job of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  13. #33
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Cannith, usually
    Posts
    2,344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    I'm pretty much okay with this . . . as far as I'm concerned the game part of this game pretty much stops after R5 and it becomes all about cheese. Some players are all about cheese, and the existence of stupid high-reaper cheese keeps them busy instead of inundating the forums with their whining about how the game is too easy and they want a "challenge".

    Reaper 5 = basically how Elite was back before MotU came out. The Nostalgia Difficulty.
    Reaper 6-10 = the cheese zone
    I'm playing a straight Wizard 20 using Pale Master, a bit of EK, and racial/universal trees for +Int; not exactly cheese. It's my second DC life ever, and I have like three relevant PL's and I went from ~20-27 Reaper points this life. Can run R8 fairly comfortably in a solid party, and R10 for some content.

    I'm planning on TRing into a melee toon (some sort of Paladin probs) and expect to aim for R3-5. Might be a cheese toon, I like those

    Stronk =/= cheese always
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload