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  1. #1
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Default The important question about THF and Quarterstaves

    Hello.


    Thief acrobat rogue enhancement tree is known with its Dexterity based style to hit and damage but also special active attacks that uses rogue level and dexterity level aswell as Trip bonuses to calculate the dice rolls.


    Several questions come to mind:


    How will the new THF effect Dexterity Thief acrobat style ?

    Is there any future plans to turn Thief acrobat style to work with Dexterity or as an alternative with Strength to match THF feat style;

    or to give and option to achieve THF feat with Strength or Dexterity requirement ?


    Thank you very much.

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  2. #2
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    Why would it change anything?

    The only thing you need is 17 str for the feat prereq by 15 or 18 - but that's not that much and comparable to, eg, twf ek needing dex for feats even though it's an int build. 13 starting str with a +4 tome is better than needing 19 for ips (or 21 for combat arch)

  3. #3
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Why would it change anything?

    The only thing you need is 17 str for the feat prereq by 15 or 18 - but that's not that much and comparable to, eg, twf ek needing dex for feats even though it's an int build. 13 starting str with a +4 tome is better than needing 19 for ips (or 21 for combat arch)




    Hi droid327. Exactly. Thief acrobat does not use Strength but only Dexterity. Any point spent at STR; more than 13-14 total (32 point build) is only overkill at THF Quarterstaff tree Thief acrobat.

    There should be n option to use STR for the tree or DEX remains the main stat while STR gives half the bonus etc. 17-18 STR just to grab THF line turns out an overkill for Thi?ef acrobat right now. Mind you Assasin and Mechanic has similar issues.


    Dear Developers can make just a tiny magic touch to bring STR-DEX correletion at said enhancement tree (and similar trees and issues for all other content)...Just a tiny touch...


    Thank you very much for the respond dear friend.





    Last edited by Kutalp; 01-21-2020 at 05:30 AM.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post

    There should be n option to use STR for the tree or DEX remains the main stat while STR gives half the bonus etc. 17-18 STR just to grab THF line turns out an overkill for Thi?ef acrobat right now. Mind you Assasin and Mechanic has similar issues.
    Staff Control: You can also use your Dexterity modifier to hit with Quarterstaves.

    Stick Fighting: You can now use your Dexterity modifier for damage with Quarterstaves.

    In fact this is already in the game. Enhancements like this always work in the way, that you use the highest of possible stats. If your STR is higher, you will use STR. If your DEX is higher you will use DEX.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunklerlindwurm View Post
    Staff Control: You can also use your Dexterity modifier to hit with Quarterstaves.

    Stick Fighting: You can now use your Dexterity modifier for damage with Quarterstaves.

    In fact this is already in the game. Enhancements like this always work in the way, that you use the highest of possible stats. If your STR is higher, you will use STR. If your DEX is higher you will use DEX.





    Hi Dunklerlindwurm.

    You certainly did not get what I am trying to tell.

    (17 Strength: THF line requirement. Everything at Thief Acrobat Tree works with...Wait for it: D3XT3R1TY)

    Thank you for the kind respond friend.
    Last edited by Kutalp; 01-21-2020 at 06:21 AM.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    Hi Dunklerlindwurm.

    You certainly did not get what I am trying to tell.

    (17 Strength: THF line requirement. Everything at Thief Acrobat Tree works with...Wait for it: D3XT3R1TY)

    Thank you for the kind respond friend.
    Yeah, it's a multiple attribute dependent requirement for a special setup, like 19 dex to get IPS for intelligence xbow builds (Harper Inq, Artificer, Mechanic). It's not really unique. I can promise you it isn't going away because it encourages tome sales.

  7. #7
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Yea, it's basically to encourage people to get tomes for the prereq. Though even the free +5 tome is more than enough to cover the requirement.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  8. #8
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    Strangely,
    I have never been truly comfortable building
    a character around the idea of changing base stats for
    to hit and damage.

    I understand it...then you can min/max a class important stat
    but the part I don't like is as soon as you do it you cut off
    a bunch of useful combat feats.

    trade offs I guess
    Just an observation, not a suggestion.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    17 Strength: THF line requirement.
    That really isnt a very big requirement or an excessive thing to ask...

    Like others said, a +4 or +5 tome can be acquired for free in-game fairly straightforwardly, and that puts you at merely 13 hard points. Even a Halfling should be able to max DEX and still take 13 STR while keeping their CON reasonable. Dumping STR only maybe lets you take an extra +2 CON or something at creation, its not a total game breaker.

    Its more of a problem for first-life with only 28 points no tomes, but even then it can be done if you really want a TA. You can make up for it with level-up points too, which just means maybe -2 DEX, again not a game breaker, especially on a first-life. And honestly, everyone should be running with at least 12 STR anyway just to avoid getting incapped by weakness.

  10. #10
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    That really isnt a very big requirement or an excessive thing to ask...

    Like others said, a +4 or +5 tome can be acquired for free in-game fairly straightforwardly, and that puts you at merely 13 hard points. Even a Halfling should be able to max DEX and still take 13 STR while keeping their CON reasonable. Dumping STR only maybe lets you take an extra +2 CON or something at creation, its not a total game breaker.

    Its more of a problem for first-life with only 28 points no tomes, but even then it can be done if you really want a TA. You can make up for it with level-up points too, which just means maybe -2 DEX, again not a game breaker, especially on a first-life. And honestly, everyone should be running with at least 12 STR anyway just to avoid getting incapped by weakness.






    Dear friends.

    The question is why would the players have to buy a tome that does not count as a permanent bonus towards account based needs.

    As a note I do not pick up THF at my acrobat rogues anymore. 12-14 str (carry limit + items boost vs magical effects) ; 14-15 other required stats except char and wisd. All in to dex. (Mind you that is a 32 point build)

    The best enhancements at the tree is all about rogue level and dexterity. Just imagine you keep casual gameplay at all servers with these types of builds. How many mains would you leave parked; how many alts you run delete for permadeaths and favor runs ?


    This really doesnt help anyone but make good (and intelligent) players leave afterall. Supporting the game and balancing through our needs is allright. (Adventures, expansions, banks, fast travel etc) Logical. Meanwhile being unintelligent w,th temporary boosts does not support our personal, real world economy afterall.


    Dont you think it would be wise and helpfull for players if these types of details were reworked ?
    Last edited by Kutalp; 01-21-2020 at 11:48 AM.

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  11. #11
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    Because DDO and DnD have always been about complete chars that have strengths and weaknesses and balancing all your attributes.

    Two stat all-in-one builds are the exception, not the expectation.

    When you can get over 100 main stat by endgame, asking for 17 off stat is not a big deal. It's not like THF strike through is going to scale based on your str or anything, where you'd need to actually build for it.

    Also you don't have to buy tomes, you can get them in game.
    Last edited by droid327; 01-21-2020 at 12:27 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Because DDO and DnD have always been about complete chars that have strengths and weaknesses and balancing all your attributes.

    Two stat all-in-one builds are the exception, not the expectation.

    When you can get over 100 main stat by endgame, asking for 17 off stat is not a big deal. It's not like THF strike through is going to scale based on your str or anything, where you'd need to actually build for it.

    Also you don't have to buy tomes, you can get them in game.



    Yeah. Thanks. See you around.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    Yeah. Thanks. See you around.
    No, for real. I feel like you're getting hostile, but I really just think you're not seeing how its not a problem, and I'd rather you be satisfied than upset

    New Build
    Rogue 20
    Halfling


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 15. . . .4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 16. . . .8: STR
    Constitution. . 15. . . 12: STR
    Intelligence. . .9. . . 16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . 24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX


    That will give you a perfectly workable first-life TA. Its not ideal, but of course you're going to see incremental improvements once you are able to incorporate tomes and higher starting stats:

    New Build
    Rogue 20
    Halfling


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 13. . . .+4. . . .4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 20. . . .+4. . . .8: DEX
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+4. . . 12: DEX
    Intelligence. . 10. . . .+4. . . 16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+4. . . 20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+4. . . 24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX


    Not really that much difference, just incremental improvements.
    Last edited by droid327; 01-21-2020 at 02:07 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    No, for real. I feel like you're getting hostile, but I really just think you're not seeing how its not a problem, and I'd rather you be satisfied than upset

    New Build
    Rogue 20
    Halfling


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 15. . . .4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 16. . . .8: STR
    Constitution. . 15. . . 12: STR
    Intelligence. . .9. . . 16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . 24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX


    That will give you a perfectly workable first-life TA. Its not ideal, but of course you're going to see incremental improvements once you are able to incorporate tomes and higher starting stats:

    New Build
    Rogue 20
    Halfling


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 13. . . .+4. . . .4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 20. . . .+4. . . .8: DEX
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+4. . . 12: DEX
    Intelligence. . 10. . . .+4. . . 16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+4. . . 20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+4. . . 24: DEX
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX


    Not really that much difference, just incremental improvements.








    Ok Thanks for the time. I appreciate that. I was serious when I said see you around. It was not sarcasm and I wasnt hostile towards you lol.


    Anyhow I prefer all for Dexterity (a bit more of cons optional when False life and vitality and Cons items are there even if still squishy) for Acrobat.

    Starts with 12 Str if 28 point, 14 Str for reasons if 32 point one. 16 Intell, 14 Cons, 16 Dex. Becasue of the active clicky mechanics, all level ups; or 6 level ups in to Dexterity and +1 to cons. (Same goes for Assasin even somehow works for non alchemical trap Mechanic rogue for to hit with GCbow) Precision, Improved feint and goes like that...

    However all my melee rogue/fighter/barb multiclass (and similar) builds are built upon Strength and cons. (Mostly THF or Shield style...Except Rog/Swash/- builds) All my warriors also starts as 14-16 Intell (18 for Wiz). 14 cons, 12-14 dex, 16 Str. (Allways 2 rogue)


    Most favorite Races: Human, Half Orc, Drow.


    Thanks and see you around.
    Last edited by Kutalp; 01-21-2020 at 04:49 PM.

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