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  1. #1
    Community Member Vinven's Avatar
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    Default Could the Mass Hold Monster SLA get a different icon? Hold Monster looks the same.

    It just would be nice to be able to tell them apart.

    Also could you increase Lay on Hands healing? Was trying to tank a dungeon on my paladin the cleric died and I realized how weak it is to try to keep myself alive with.
    Last edited by Vinven; 01-19-2020 at 11:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    A new icon for the Mass version would be nice (for Mass Hold Monster, and Mass Hold Person as well). Perhaps something simple like adding speckles in the background, or a different coloured border.

    The healing potential for LoH is about 30% lower than that of HH. IMO Lay on Hands should be as good or better better at that job, given that it's a class feature, rather than a race feature that many builds can make use of.

    What probably really hold LoH back is that it's dependent on CHA, which Paladins don't have much reason to invest in.

    As a quick fix, I suggest the healing be doubled in Epic.

    (from wiki https://ddowiki.com/page/Lay_On_Hands )
    The Paladin ability Lay on Hands heals a friendly target for ( 10 + Paladin level ) x Charisma modifier amount of hit points, or deals that much damage to an undead target.
    The Aasimar race also gets a similar ability, "Healing Hands", which heals ( 10 + Character level ) x Wisdom modifier. Starts with one charge per rest, optionally gains more via racial tree. Can only be used while the Bond Feat is active.
    Last edited by LeoLionxxx; 01-19-2020 at 12:59 PM.
    That's not lag, it's just DDO trying to become turn-based again.

    Feature wishlist: colour-coded HP bars; red/blue teams in raids; rez-timer in party menu; equip-able halflings

  3. #3
    Community Member K_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post
    A new icon for the Mass version would be nice (for Mass Hold Monster, and Mass Hold Person as well). Perhaps something simple like adding speckles in the background, or a different coloured border.

    The healing potential for LoH is about 30% lower than that of HH. IMO Lay on Hands should be as good or better better at that job, given that it's a class feature, rather than a race feature that many builds can make use of.

    What probably really hold LoH back is that it's dependent on CHA, which Paladins don't have much reason to invest in.

    As a quick fix, I suggest the healing be doubled in Epic.

    (from wiki https://ddowiki.com/page/Lay_On_Hands )
    Not quite the answer and also not my prefered option but HH is being nerfed substantially come next update. I can't tell you though if it's going to be still better than lay on hands or worse.

  4. #4
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_9 View Post
    Not quite the answer and also not my prefered option but HH is being nerfed substantially come next update. I can't tell you though if it's going to be still better than lay on hands or worse.
    Ah, indeed it is being brought down to the same power level as what a LV 20 paladin would have. Good to know.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    Individual Changes
    • Aasimar's Healing Hands is now capped at 20 character levels.

    P.S.
    Just to clear up any misinformation: Can't find the dev quote, but there was also acknowledgment that on Lamania, it was bugged to be doing only about 30% of its healing.
    That's not lag, it's just DDO trying to become turn-based again.

    Feature wishlist: colour-coded HP bars; red/blue teams in raids; rez-timer in party menu; equip-able halflings

  5. #5
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post
    Ah, indeed it is being brought down to the same power level as what a LV 20 paladin would have. Good to know.

    P.S.
    Just to clear up any misinformation: Can't find the dev quote, but there was also acknowledgment that on Lamania, it was bugged to be doing only about 30% of its healing.
    Not a Dev, but can confirm both of these statements.

    A Dev (don't know who was tinkering with the max level at the time) had hit the wrong button (1 instead of 2), so 20 became 10, and so any healing on Lamannia ended up being 33% as effective as it was on Live at the time. This was confirmed fixed by +Lich (if I remember right, that's Lynnabel or one of her desired alts) to have been fixed in chat after I did some tests that showed that my healing was either being halved again (a bigger nerf than just a max of 10 levels; it would have been "(Character level X Wisdom modifier) / 2" or that the max cap was 10. I changed my Wisdom numbers around and tested that it was maxing out at 10 levels so put that in chat, and bugged it in. So the next release preview and the Update itself (45) should only see Healing Hands drop down to 66% current effectiveness rather than 33%.

    :: edit ::

    Almost forgot, I also agree that some Icons need updating, and fully throw my backing behind a quick update to them to distinguish them apart more easily.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  6. #6
    Systems Designer
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Not a Dev, but can confirm both of these statements.

    A Dev (don't know who was tinkering with the max level at the time) had hit the wrong button (1 instead of 2), so 20 became 10, and so any healing on Lamannia ended up being 33% as effective as it was on Live at the time.
    This is incorrect. Believe it or not, both LoH and HH cap internally at 30 levels - the erroneous cap of 10 was due to a misplaced clamp in the level calculations. Actual LoH/HH formula: (level + 10) * appropriate mod = healing, where level cannot exceed 20.

    I can try to dig up a new icon variant for Mass Hold, you're right that it's confusing.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  7. #7
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is incorrect. Believe it or not, both LoH and HH cap internally at 30 levels - the erroneous cap of 10 was due to a misplaced clamp in the level calculations. Actual LoH/HH formula: (level + 10) * appropriate mod = healing, where level cannot exceed 20.
    So... Basically what we said already.

    Although looking at what you've listed, seems like unnecessary extras in the formula code that need extra checking, which I would have classed unnecessary. But then again, I don't work at SSG or see inside the code, so not really for me to comment on anyway. But good to have info on what's happening internally so we have a record of what to be checking on. It's a shame not more of this is available.

    As for the icon for the spells, the sooner that can be done the better, although it's not just something you want and it happens. But I totally get OP as I've got casters with multiple identical SLA, spells and abilities and they confuse the heck out other players who end up using my characters or seeing my screen.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  8. #8
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    As long as we're changing the icon, let's change the cooldown, too!

    Primary Home: Argonnessen
    Also known as: Archarias, Ishtaris, Arthies, Artharias, Astanius, and Fidgity.
    "Elder brains are a lot like bouncy castles. They just sit there, but if you jump up and down on them, things get interesting real quick." ~FlimsyFirewood

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    As long as we're changing the icon, let's change the cooldown, too!
    The cooldown for Mass Hold Monster SLA is now 5 minutes. You're welcome.

    --The Management

  10. #10
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zretch View Post
    The cooldown for Mass Hold Monster SLA is now 5 minutes. You're welcome.

    --The Management
    NUUUU!!!!

    It needs to be less, maybe 10 seconds is good. 20 seconds is way too long.
    Primary Home: Argonnessen
    Also known as: Archarias, Ishtaris, Arthies, Artharias, Astanius, and Fidgity.
    "Elder brains are a lot like bouncy castles. They just sit there, but if you jump up and down on them, things get interesting real quick." ~FlimsyFirewood

  11. #11
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post
    A new icon for the Mass version would be nice (for Mass Hold Monster, and Mass Hold Person as well). Perhaps something simple like adding speckles in the background, or a different coloured border.

    What probably really hold LoH back is that it's dependent on CHA, which Paladins don't have much reason to invest in.
    I vote for three smaller trolls (or maybe a different enemy?) instead of one big one for the Mass Hold Icon

    I'm really not sure what Paladin you're running, but I've always valued Cha all around for them? Divine Might, Divine Grace, Turns, and LoH all scaling with it make it a pretty solid investment lol. And Intimidate, if you want to tank/offtank.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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