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  1. #1
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    Default Please Delay U45 Until .....

    Many concerns have been raised regarding (1) the over-nerfing of range toons as well as other builds, and (2) the OP-ness of the new class Alchemist. Would it not be better to resolve these issue before going live? No need to rush it out, right? I know you want to get this done before the next Hardcore League (humm, that is another issue all together lol), but please get this right the first time and avoid the need for later adjustments. Nerfing stuff after people have paid money for it makes people upset, and rightfully so. Thank you for your consideration.

  2. #2
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    Lynnabel's Avatar
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    Gracious, it's not like our plans are to release the update this week. We have an entire planned public preview that you folks haven't even seen the notes for before we do staging/the next release. Don't worry, this isn't our first rodeo :) we're hard at work iterating on feedback, I hope you like the next draft of changes when they're posted up for review.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Don't worry, this isn't our first rodeo
    To be fair, there have been previews where things were found to be majorly wonky, then there were a bunch of blind updates and it went straight to Live like the next week...

    In the future, if you know already you're going to give it another pass on Lama, it might be good to mention that when the first preview closes so we know we'll get another chance to offer feedback, like James Bond - U45 will return in "Public Preview 2"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Gracious, it's not like our plans are to release the update this week. We have an entire planned public preview that you folks haven't even seen the notes for before we do staging/the next release. Don't worry, this isn't our first rodeo we're hard at work iterating on feedback, I hope you like the next draft of changes when they're posted up for review.
    Great, thank you

    Look, IMO, DDO is the best game out there. Period. I spend a lot of time and money on this game (46% of my disposable income … lol … jk). I look forward to playing this game for many more years. I understand you sometimes have difficult decisions to make. Keep up the good work.
    Last edited by TheMaxpower; 01-18-2020 at 10:36 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    Wake me if they start up HCL again
    or put in a Druid scroll vendor.

    I am so over this balance thing, just do it.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  6. #6
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Gracious, it's not like our plans are to release the update this week. We have an entire planned public preview that you folks haven't even seen the notes for before we do staging/the next release. Don't worry, this isn't our first rodeo we're hard at work iterating on feedback, I hope you like the next draft of changes when they're posted up for review.
    That's what I worry about. The majority of this update doesn't sit well with me. Most of it is a bad idea, imo. And in my experience over the last years you make it worse with your corrections.
    I became a pessimist for this game. That is not my nature. But I will probably stay this way until you prove me wrong.

    The strategy you are driving and the way you execute it drives me further away with every action you take.


    Cheers,
    Titus.
    Beste, Titus. | playing since 2009 | Don't do the fun wrong | New to Orien? Join the ingame Titan Channel | Soko Irrlicht freut sich immer über neue Mitglieder | Deutscher Discord | Orien Raiding Discord Toons: Titusovid , Bruder, Upload, Zzed, (Rubbel)

  7. #7
    2016 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    To be fair, there have been previews where things were found to be majorly wonky, then there were a bunch of blind updates and it went straight to Live like the next week...
    ^This.

    When you do things a certain way for long enough... we'll tend to believe your actions far more than your words.

    Here's hoping they're working on being different this time and moving forward...
    Griglok (main)- Cleric (TRing), Duelcore- Wiz 18/FvS 2, Embezzler- Rogue, Fiergen- Ftr 8/Rgr 6/Mnk 6, Greyhead- monk, Havegun- Ftr 2/Pal 18, Jayberwocky- Ftr 8/Mnk 12, Laciolux- Clr 16/FvS 4, Prototech- Artificer, Rendorc- Barbarian, Seasharp- Bard
    Leader- The Casual Obsession ___Khyber___

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    Most of it is a bad idea, imo.
    Why? Give us your feedback. Just telling us "I don't like it" doesn't help us improve.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  9. #9
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Why? Give us your feedback. Just telling us "I don't like it" doesn't help us improve.
    Exactly!

    Going all DOOOM with super toxicity toward SSG and without even bothering to explain WHY you think something is bad will not net you good changes, it will net you 10 +2 thieves tools.

  10. #10
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Why? Give us your feedback. Just telling us "I don't like it" doesn't help us improve.
    I like the melee changes, does help from what I'm seeing so far, so long as single target DPS/glancing blows don't get reduced.

    Inquisitor universal's the only issue with ranged. Slamming IPS to reduce all ranged damage, is a kick in the head for people that actually enjoyed playing rangers/mechanics/artificers. There were no
    issues with a decade+ old feat until the INQ meta came out, they're using it as a blanket change to tone-down Inquisitor DPS, at the cost of every player in the game who's NOT the INQ Meta of Doom.

    Simply adjusting the fire rate on the contition that two crossbows are equipped (when two xbows are equipped fire rate is reduced by "x"%), would most likely solve the entire problem. You don't need
    rapid fire, reload, or any other change. I have played the INQ builds and they are quite OP in the current state, and I suggest that's the simplest solution. Try small, before you tactically nuke the game.

    My 2 and 1/2 cents.

  11. #11

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    can we get blood hunt to work with eldritch blast while your making changes? and some lvl 9 druid spells as im an elemental fire druid and have to take spells i cant use.

  12. #12
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    Just deploy the all-powerful alchemist for now, and hold off on all of theses nerfs for a little while. It is likely that in a few months, the Alchemist will be the powerful build everyone wants to use, and the other stuff won't seem, or be, that OP anymore. Kind of like Mortal Fear. It was nerfed a while ago b/c it was too OP. These days, with power creep the way it is, it would not be that OP anymore. lol

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    That's what I worry about. The majority of this update doesn't sit well with me. Most of it is a bad idea, imo. And in my experience over the last years you make it worse with your corrections.
    I became a pessimist for this game. That is not my nature. But I will probably stay this way until you prove me wrong.

    The strategy you are driving and the way you execute it drives me further away with every action you take.


    Cheers,
    Titus.
    This ... I totally agree.... seems like things just keep going downhill after every "balancing" session...not to mention the xp and now the buff nerfs.

  14. #14
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Why? Give us your feedback. Just telling us "I don't like it" doesn't help us improve.
    My feedback, ok

    Wiz, Sor, Cleric, FS, War, Arty all have at least 1+ dedicated scroll vendors

    Druid has 0 scroll vendors

    Druids need a scroll vendor with common druid spells like summon animal
    and flame blade etc.. If arty has a specially dedicated scroll vendor, druids should
    have one as well.

    my feedback

    It also gives half-elf Dil Druid a reason to exist.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  15. #15
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Signed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Why? Give us your feedback. Just telling us "I don't like it" doesn't help us improve.
    Speaking for only myself, I gave up on supplying any specific feedback a long time ago. I gave up on the test or preview servers, too. As well as reporting bugs.

    I was once extremely passionate about this game. The term "fanboy" was pretty much created for the degree I was drinking the DDO Kool-Aid. But, the game has had Devs in the past who would create punitive measures in response to feedback. There is one particularly hideous piece of armor that was created in direct response to players asking for better looking armor. A Dev once worked on their own time because he hated that you used to be able to spin your character while sitting at rest shrines, implemented it, and when players complained about the suddenly missing quirk... they were told to shut up. I also had a Developer tell me on the invite-only test server that he was glad I didn't like something being tested because "It wasn't for you." There are a multitude of other examples, sadly...

    Now, I just take the game as it comes. My initial reaction to changes hasn't dulled over the years - but my impulse to be vocal about it (outside of very rare occasions) has been. And while it is true that the current Dev team has gotten much better... there is still a perception among players that y'all don't measure twice and cut once. Vocal negative feedback has gone unacknowledged and changes unmade. New features are regularly either nakedly overpowered necessitating future nerfing (and prompting complaints of bait-and-switch tactics, since the nerfs seem to come just before the next OP thing we will need to buy) or harsh nerfs to existing features that seem to be blown out of proportion to the general population in response to very niche and narrow examples of over-performance.

    My enthusiasm for the game has waxed and waned over the intervening years. U45 is looking like it's going to be waning cycle, because I am also really unhappy with a lot of what I've seen on the docket. I'm poking my head out of my shell of self-imposed ennui just this once to say so, since you asked and I very much respect what you have done as a developer, Lynn. But, I don't expect any actual change to occur as a result. For a long time, I used the image of Charlie Brown getting dumped on his butt trying to kick the football as the summation of how I felt towards DDO Development. I got a fair share of my Legendary Reputation status from those posts because a lot of folks agreed with it. . I'm tired of ending up on my butt... and, rightly or wrongly, I still feel like that will be the only result from trying to alter any future development.



    Last edited by Memnir; 01-18-2020 at 02:53 PM.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .57460.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    Druids need a scroll vendor with common druid spells like summon animal
    and flame blade etc.. If arty has a specially dedicated scroll vendor, druids should
    have one as well.
    Arti can inscribe scrolls, Druid cant, that's one difference

    Also, looking at the first few levels of spells...it looks like all the Druid spells are either already offered as scrolls in the Divine or Arcane list, would be pointless to add in because no one would use it, or would be OP to have as a scroll and/or would circumvent needing to ever slot it in your actual spellbook and/or would give too much Druid functionality to anyone with enough UMD.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Vocal negative feedback has gone unacknowledged and changes unmade. New features are regularly either nakedly overpowered necessitating future nerfing (and prompting complaints of bait-and-switch tactics, since the nerfs seem to come just before the next OP thing we will need to buy) or harsh nerfs to existing features that seem to be blown out of proportion to the general population in response to very niche and narrow examples of over-performance.
    Isnt it weird how they can simultaneously seem to be both completely tone-deaf to their playerbase and also hyper-reactionary about its perceptions?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I am also really unhappy with a lot of what I've seen on the docket.
    Such as? If you don't tell us what you don't like, we don't have a way of knowing what you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    But, I don't expect any actual change to occur as a result.
    I can tell you that the best way to ensure your feedback isn't respected is to provide no feedback whatsoever. I'd like to give you what you want, but without specifics, telling me that "you're unhappy" doesn't give me anything to work with.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  19. #19
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I can tell you that the best way to ensure your feedback isn't respected is to provide no feedback whatsoever. I'd like to give you what you want, but without specifics, telling me that "you're unhappy" doesn't give me anything to work with.
    Oh, I get that. I just haven't seen enough positive changes in that regard without my input to give me faith again to try again. I've actually been a happier player by reducing my expectations and my input here beyond being a goofus. I just stop playing the parts of the game I find odious - be it classes or quests or features - and focus on the parts of the game I have fun with. I have found a way to have my own fun despite overall direction changes, nerfs, and other problematic issues as I see them.

    While the request for input isn't quite the honeypot trap I used to see it as - it's still a degree of investment I can't yet bring myself to reattain. I feel bad about that, but I just can't.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

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  20. #20
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Signed.

    Speaking for only myself, I gave up on supplying any specific feedback a long time ago. I gave up on the test or preview servers, too. As well as reporting bugs.

    I was once extremely passionate about this game. The term "fanboy" was pretty much created for the degree I was drinking the DDO Kool-Aid. But, the game has had Devs in the past who would create punitive measures in response to feedback. There is one particularly hideous piece of armor that was created in direct response to players asking for better looking armor. A Dev once worked on their own time because he hated that you used to be able to spin your character while sitting at rest shrines, implemented it, and when players complained about the suddenly missing quirk... they were told to shut up. I also had a Developer tell me on the invite-only test server that he was glad I didn't like something being tested because "It wasn't for you." There are a multitude of other examples, sadly...

    Now, I just take the game as it comes. My initial reaction to changes hasn't dulled over the years - but my impulse to be vocal about it (outside of very rare occasions) has been. And while it is true that the current Dev team has gotten much better... there is still a perception among players that y'all don't measure twice and cut once. Vocal negative feedback has gone unacknowledged and changes unmade. New features are regularly either nakedly overpowered necessitating future nerfing (and prompting complaints of bait-and-switch tactics, since the nerfs seem to come just before the next OP thing we will need to buy) or harsh nerfs to existing features that seem to be blown out of proportion to the general population in response to very niche and narrow examples of over-performance.

    My enthusiasm for the game has waxed and waned over the intervening years. U45 is looking like it's going to be waning cycle, because I am also really unhappy with a lot of what I've seen on the docket. I'm poking my head out of my shell of self-imposed ennui just this once to say so, since you asked and I very much respect what you have done as a developer, Lynn. But, I don't expect any actual change to occur as a result. For a long time, I used the image of Charlie Brown getting dumped on his butt trying to kick the football as the summation of how I felt towards DDO Development. I got a fair share of my Legendary Reputation status from those posts because a lot of folks agreed with it. . I'm tired of ending up on my butt... and, rightly or wrongly, I still feel like that will be the only result from trying to alter any future development.


    You just reminded me why I have such bitter taste when hearing about WAKFU MMORPG.

    Was really fun game, but Ankama hates non French player base so much I quit game over their behavior. (form claiming major issues were fixed, and completely ignoring those who said they were not, ignoring griefers for weeks, and straight up trolling paying players)

    And BELIEVE me, even if we take some of the worst actions taken by SSG (Amber temple mess, for example) it does not even come close to minor issues Ankama had.

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