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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    3 second animation
    Let me just stop you there. A 3 second animation of doing nothing is what enemy cc is for, why would anyone play a class where this was a "feature".

  2. #82
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    The problem really is boiled down to stat bloat and damage being way way too spikey incoming and outgoing.

    In R1: A first life Tank(paladin, fighter, barbarian, monk EK, Bear Druid Arty Tank) in decent gear should be able to HOLD AGGRO, ABSORB/DEFLECT/HP Regen thru (based on class style) the physical damage of a trash pack. In no instance should a Tank with a shield in full plate be insta-killed by "weapon damage" from dungeon trash unless they are like 5 lvls below the content. In order to farm the gear you have to be able to complete the dungeon, not carried thru it.

    The above fighter should probably be a mana sink to the party. Meaning ok its your first life but the rest of the party can work as a group to get you through it. This should != 35 res scrolls.

    I see Fighters and Monks being melee trash absorbers and barbs being more immune to magic direct damage. I see paladins being mediocre tanks on but but being absolute wrecking balls against undead & demons / extraplaner creatures.

    A Dagger Rogue should always always be the tip of the top tier DPS and top tier escape artist and be able to have a very good short CD mechanic to reliably drop aggro against all mob types and avoid incoming damage both magic and melee, they should be able to dish the damage while ducking and diving. Meaning Group play they excel and solo, they have issues but its still doable.

    Ranged DPS should be about on par or slightly DPS lower than a rogue, at the cost of mobility and survival to melee or magic attacks or a bit of all of it.

    Nerfing ranged will not make the game more playable for Melee. Nerfing ranged will not make the game more playable for Melee. Nerfing ranged will not make the game more playable for Melee.

    I said that three times because its true and if you say something 3x its magic or so I've heard.

    Nerfing the Range of Ranged missile damage is a pretty damn good idea. No hitting past 30M. Ive played a tank in a group with ranged missile characters its not great chasing mobs down unless everyone has their **** together. Also There are some dungeons that Ive just quit out of because my DPS wasn't there to kill the mobs, but I couldn't die when playing solo.

    Tanks need to be able to more reliably Aggro and Keep Aggro. The CDs lowered and aggro generation needs tuning. If tanks can hold aggro and survive via team work it yet still make the game challenging for the party. rogues constantly doing tricks to drop aggro intermixed with their DPS abilities. Casters making using tricks to make mobs more susceptible to taunting abilities and metering their DPS / Assisting with CC / Damage ect. Missile ranged shouldn't have the full tool set to drop the aggro of fuol CC of casters but should have thematically per char class abilities to get them thru a dungeon, mixture of snare/stunning CCs that actually work.

    All this requires that Combat slows down a little. One Lag spike or one tiny mistake by a person should not equal instant death unless its in a raid boss fight situation.

    If your going to NERF the snot out of ranged damage and give 2HW fighters a side grade, this patch is going to be hot garbage sans the new shiny alchemist, which everyone and their mom will flock to.

    Every raid boss should be designed around a different set of rock paper scissors, with trash requiring the others styles that aren't as key to the boss. IE if you have a hard swinging boss you have magic intensive trash and vice versa. Or if you have magic Boss maybe a lot of undead. Make every class archtype feel useful and a reason to be brought.
    Last edited by scut207; 01-21-2020 at 09:20 AM.
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  3. #83
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    Let me just stop you there. A 3 second animation of doing nothing is what enemy cc is for, why would anyone play a class where this was a "feature".
    Really? You'll stop me there? Slow your roll, Skippy.

    These are suggestions to discuss. Because you don't like the idea doesn't mean it lacks merit.

    It wasn't suggested as a feature: it was suggested as a risk.

    A repeater jam makes sense. Tap-rack-bang is a realistic solution for a firearm jam. It took me all of a second to clear a jam but pulling a splintered bolt from a repeater mechanism could be argued to take longer. Things don't always work perfectly, any reality has its share of troubles or there wouldn't be a Good vs Evil, Players vs SSG, etc. (kidding on the last.)

    I don't believe ranged is off balance, however. My ranged toons have died plenty; kiting isn't the flawless armor many make it out to be and if you're moving you aren't lining up the IPS kill shots.

    Inquisitive however, throws a lot of extra bonuses in there that, when stacked with the regular ranged enhancement trees, makes a build that kill kill 2-3 in one shot and move to the next. But I can accept a logical risk of jamming repeaters or tripping because I'm running backwards through a debris strewn dungeon. Plenty of cracks, crevices and bodies to fall over because I'm not watching where I'm going. But SSG seems unwilling to nerf their golden child. The proposed nerfs will make Inqui just about mandatory for any ranged toon. I don't like that. It removes the diversity of builds that the game allowed and let's be realistic- a world full of Inquisitives with the law on their side? Sounds like a corrupt bureaucracy.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    Really? You'll stop me there? Slow your roll, Skippy.
    Why not just add a stupidly long animation to NHB while you're at it... oh, wait.

    Let's add a 3 second animation to your fave class/playstyle and see if you take it on the chin.

    A 3 second animation of anything is not fun and your suggestion is to nerf fun.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    A repeater jam makes sense. Tap-rack-bang is a realistic solution for a firearm jam. It took me all of a second to clear a jam but pulling a splintered bolt from a repeater mechanism could be argued to take longer. Things don't always work perfectly, any reality has its share of troubles or there wouldn't be a Good vs Evil, Players vs SSG, etc. (kidding on the last.)
    This is the same sort of mindset that, in tabletop, thought a fumble roll on a 20 for melee attacks was balanced/acceptable.

    Someone who trains enough with a weapon that their entire career is based around using it in deadly earnest having a 5% chance to completely drop their weapon every time they swing.

    So the better they got at using it (more attacks), the worse they got at basic competence with it (likelihood of dropping their weapon per turn).

    People based the arguments on stories with characters occasionally dropping weapons, but the stories are generally a snapshot of a larger life spent adventuring. They may drop or fumble 5% of "screen time", but that doesn't mean it's actually 5% of their overall career.

    Making it into a 5% chance is roughly akin to thinking that, say, Harry Dresden deals with monster invasions all the time, when the books are explicitly listed as "worst weekend of the year" for most of the years we see.

    While possibly "realistic", in a sense, that sort of thing of self-CCing randomly on attack with no control over it has no place in an MMO. Or a videogame in general, really.

    And since hand crossbows are all open-topped (unlike repeaters), you could conceivably just have the "jam" fall out during the reload animation.

    So it'd likely end up punishing repeaters even more harshly (which isn't needed).


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    The proposed nerfs will make Inqui just about mandatory for any ranged toon.
    Not at all.

    The problem with Inquisitive, right now, is adding a bunch of other stuff onto it (Sneak Attack, EK Imbues, etc).

    None of that is being touched by this update. They even specifically said that on-hit effects weren't going to take the damage hit from the new IPS.

    So the builds that are overperforming (Inquisitive mixed with Rogue or Wizard) will still overperform.

    Builds that aren't doing that are going to underperform relative to what you can get by building off a Rogue base. And the Rapid Reload/Doubleshot nerfs mean that if you aren't doing Roguequisitive, you'll likely be doing GXBow Mechanic (which comes away untouched).

    Bows take it in the teeth (which may eventually be "fixed", I dunno, I'll believe it when I see it) and Repeaters are off in their own little corner that they've been in since being nerfed prior.

    But that's why the IPS changes are a bad idea and shouldn't go through, at the very least not in their current form.

    They don't fix the base problem (mixing Sneak Attack/EK Imbues with stupid-high attack speed) and will hurt builds that are nowhere near "overpowered".

    Funny thing is that some of that latter category can even include some variants of Inquisitive. With no Sneak Attack, no EK Imbues and less than full Bab (without EDs or Divine Power), stuff like pure Cleric Inquisitive (which you'd think would've been a thing due to the Diplomacy component) aren't exactly threatening, given that the only reason to play a Cleric is Positive Energy Aura (which is a T5 and thus precludes Inq t5). Still better than Warpriest or Divine Disciple though, but that's because those are easily the two worst class trees in the game.

    I'd, personally, argue that Law on your Side should be mutually-exclusive with EK Imbues, and Dual Shooter should be unable to benefit from Sneak Attack, but I'm the type of crazy that thinks a Universal Tree should actually be a viable option on its own, and that AP spent in a tree should be roughly worth as much as AP spent in any other tree (class or no).

    There should just be constraints on how much you can double-dip with a Universal Tree and a Class Tree.

    Really, though, it doesn't matter. Everyone who played Inquisitive for performance will just end up swapping to Sorcerer anyway.

    Which I'm sure will totally make melee more competitive!
    Last edited by FuzzierSage; 01-21-2020 at 10:26 AM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzierSage View Post
    SNIP

    Really, though, it doesn't matter. Everyone who played Inquisitive for performance will just end up swapping to Sorcerer anyway.

    Which I'm sure will totally make melee more competitive!
    This is the entire problem, they've made it entirely too difficult gearwise/statwise for melee to survive, Whilst requiring heavier RP investment than ranged DPS to compete at the same level.

    If you had 10 RP would you roll a melee toon and wanted to do Rs at level or would you roll a ranged char? the answer is really easy. Ranged till you get the RP to wade in there.

    When the game design pushes you out of melee, going ranged is the result.
    Last edited by scut207; 01-21-2020 at 10:37 AM.
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  7. #87
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    In general I believe an enhancement tree should enhance the base class. It shouldn't BE the base class where the actual class only enhances.
    Three seconds is a place holder, however, do you honestly believe a mechanical device that can spew a hundred rounds in the space of a few seconds should work 100% of the time? I suggested a 2% risk of incurring a few seconds down time. 1% chance then? But we can table that.

    Do you think a character can run backwards over any debris as if it were a paved and polished dance floor? While focusing their aimed shot, no less?

    Rolling a 1 on the twenty-sider is a 5% chance. Even professionals get a rare chance of oops, but I do agree 5% is high.

    The question was raised asking for alternate ideas. I enjoy brainstorming, and I look at most of the responses but I tend to ignore the condescending and closed minded ones.

    As for Inquisitive... I think it's too much. I bought it, I played it and I think it conveys a hellacious advantage which now results in SSG slashing 20% damage from the most demanding heroic feat in the game, in a manner that affects every ranged class. I don't like the decision. And this decision is hot on the heels of people complaining about IPS being too powerful. IPS is fine. It does not kill or incapacitate 6+ monsters in a shot/volley. The solution they propose skirts around the instance that created the problem and subsequent complaining.

    And a nebulous, "We're looking at improving bows in a later update" statement is a pinch of bull dung. Essentially we're getting empty promises of improvement for an under performing weapon category as a salve for the loss of a feat around which a ranged toon is built.

    Already, people are lining up their next target in the "OMG, too OP" category: Sorcerers. I don't like witch hunts or arguments of holding everyone down to a standard. It's hypocritical and holding others back does not benefit us as melees. (Yes, I play melee on my main- more challenging, more fun, but I have plenty of experience with ranged rogues and arties).

    Finally, if SSG nerfs IPS, they need to bring the requirements down to match the loss of traction. Dex 15, BAB 8.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

  8. #88
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Melee needs work; Weapon types should be allocated specific focus areas.
    -Light weapons (Daggers, kukris, etc) should be fast lower damage to a single target with an increased potential of debuffs as a result and an occasional huge damage source or instant kill- assassins (And similar). Allows for increased armor/sheltering because of the board aspect.
    -Medium weapons single target great DPS and moderate damage (AOE); allows for increased armor/sheltering because of the board aspect.
    -Large weapons (THF) should be great AOE damage sources along with great single target DPS. You're sacrificing defense in order to swing a chunk of dense enchanted matter around. It absolutely should hit 2 targets, possibly three, as a matter of course.

    TWF: Needs more damage considering the sacrifice of a shield.

    An established, weighted system needs to be developed so that all buckets are accounted and values are equally distributed. (Inherent Defenses, DPS, Reach(Melee, magic, missile), Resources (SP, Monk bliss, etc.). Until then, DDO will always be unbalanced. Tweaking the classes, styles and enhancements will never provide balance, just a guess. You're shooting blind with these changes. Sometimes it lands close to the mark but many times not.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

  9. #89
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Easy access in context was referring to ease of use, not ease of acquisition. IPS is much easier to use effectively than other forms of AoE in the game, and unlike other forms of AoE it does not correspond to a DPS loss.
    What? IPS requires you line up mobs and target the one in back. As mobs move, and in wide open areas, it actually takes some work to use IPS effectively.

    Meanwhile a casters meteor swarm or a cone of cold spell just hits everything in front of you without a lot of aiming. And there's no DPS loss there.

    THF cleave has DPS loss, but it's a lot easier (although more dangerous) to use than IPS.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 01-21-2020 at 02:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    What? IPS requires you line up mobs and target the one in back. As mobs move, and in wide open areas, it actually takes some work to use IPS effectively.

    Meanwhile a casters meteor swarm or a cone of cold spell just hits everything in front of you without a lot of aiming.
    Agreed. IPS is the most difficult form of AoE to use effectively, This is especially true when considering latency and the tiny window of confirmation for IPS. The mobs might finally all appear to be in line, but the games engine sees it differently from you by the time you pull the trigger. If you were one step to the left, AoE goodness. But you were not, so all that effort resulted in another single target hit.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    In general I believe an enhancement tree should enhance the base class. It shouldn't BE the base class where the actual class only enhances.

    Do you think a character can run backwards over any debris as if it were a paved and polished dance floor? While focusing their aimed shot, no less?

    Rolling a 1 on the twenty-sider is a 5% chance. Even professionals get a rare chance of oops, but I do agree 5% is high.

    The question was raised asking for alternate ideas. I enjoy brainstorming, and I look at most of the responses but I tend to ignore the condescending and closed minded ones.
    I agree with about half of what you said, but I'm addressing the fluff stuff because I love stuff like this.

    I always figured that a natural 1 (and the miss that usually comes) or failing to confirm a crit were the equivalent of the weapon jamming/the person messing up the attack/etc. Without adding a penalty like fumbling on top, because the 1's punishment enough. Usually.

    Especially missing crit confirms. Feels like the definition of overconfidence making someone (the attacker) screw up. "Hah, take THAT!" "...crud"

    And for the running backwards/debris thing, I figure someone wearing magic boots or other speed-increasing gear probably could, yeah. Boots that "just" make you run 30% faster than a peak human can seem like they'd have to do something to help with coordination, otherwise you'd be tripping all over yourself. Same thing as like Quicksilver/Flash getting faster perception/better balance to keep up with how fast he can move.

    I think the solution (in PnP) to kiting backwards at full speed (besides being turn-based) was the "difficult terrain" thing.

    I'd be fine with that existing here and causing the stuff you mentioned, so long as it's clearly delineated (or at the least, set up like a trap detection thing). But IIRC right now in DDO it only exists as things that slow/damage you when you walk over them, and those are spells like Entangle and such. And the enemy would rather use those to impede forward progress than to prevent escape/kiting.

    So TL;DR, I think both shooting really fast and running fast backwards "work" within the setting/level of disbelief suspension the game has, but I'm also a fan of stuff like Sharn/Eberron (and other "weird"/"nonstandard"/"nonclassical" uses of magic), so I think I'm more willing to squint a bit and ignore in some cases where magic has a severe disagreement with physics.

    As for the other, non-fluff bit...some class trees aren't good enough to work when you use the class "as intended", until you get a pile of gear/past lives/reaper points/etc.

    My biggest example of that's Divine Disciple. It's complete and utter trash, and a first-life Cleric with no tomes won't have the SP to make it through missions if they try to be a "Nuker". Or even a DC Caster, at that level.

    I'm fine with being able to use a Universal Tree instead of the points I'd be putting into something that doesn't work, because the likelihood of Clerics getting a rework sometime in the decade is nil. And that's fine, because most people just use Cleric as either a melee/mix-in, a healbot with PEA, or a pile of past lives/reaper points/gear dressed up as a "DC Caster". And it works for all those, mostly.

    But that's also why I think stuff in Inquisitive should disable interactions with class-specific mechanics, kinda like Vistani doesn't let you be centered with Throwing Daggers.

    You should be getting full value for your points put into any tree, but you also shouldn't be able to double-dip a Universal Tree with actual class features. And that's where Inquisitive's big problem came in.

    The whole Diplomacy/Diplomatic Immunity/Observation was Inquisitive's equivalent of a "class feature" (though Diplomacy was basically useless for it), and I feel like that "should" have been what was used to gate some of its power, alongside disabling stuff like EK Imbues and Sneak Attack from Rogue Class Levels.

    An Inquisitive's a detective, and detectives are generally pretty good at talking to people. You "should've" had to use stuff like Diplomacy ranks to get at its full power (or maybe an Enhancement bit to replace Diplomacy with Bluff or Intimidate). Though again, that'd need to shut off adding extra on-hit stuff from Class-specific things.
    Last edited by FuzzierSage; 01-21-2020 at 04:17 PM.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    In general I believe an enhancement tree should enhance the base class. It shouldn't BE the base class where the actual class only enhances.
    Three seconds is a place holder, however, do you honestly believe a mechanical device that can spew a hundred rounds in the space of a few seconds should work 100% of the time? I suggested a 2% risk of incurring a few seconds down time. 1% chance then? But we can table that.
    How about this for balance?

    When you hit something with a sword it becomes blunt, so how about we scale down melee damage by say 1% each time you score a hit? After the battle you can get your whetstone out to sharpen the blade and bring it back up to its full potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    How about this for balance?

    When you hit something with a sword it becomes blunt, so how about we scale down melee damage by say 1% each time you score a hit? After the battle you can get your whetstone out to sharpen the blade and bring it back up to its full potential.
    Please tell me you've played some of the Monster Hunter series before.

    For melee weapons in that, there's a "Sharpness" system. There's a bar, starts at like green. Goes to yellow, then red as you use it. Loses bar faster if you hit hard parts of a monster. As it drops, you do less damage and are more likely to "bounce" (doing minimal damage).

    You can restore your Sharpness by using a Whetstone (or some consumables), but they have a usage time and that's somewhat risky to do in-combat.

    Certain weapons can start with or gain higher sharpness ratings (blue, then white, then purple) through skills, with white and especially purple Sharpness giving a much larger damage boost. But they also degrade back to blue quicker than blue degrades to green, generally.

    Also, not surprisingly, the melee meta in MH Iceborne (most recent game) revolves around a set that lets you basically ignore the Sharpness mechanic. Showing that even games explicitly built around player punishment for doing stuff they normally do (hitting things makes you eventually worse at hitting things) will usually have ways to avoid said things at a sacrifice to build room.

    "Crits don't consume sharpness" 3-piece plus 100% crit rate (from all the crit skills, including one that requires you to stay at full health) = no Sharpness loss.

    Ranged (Bow, Light Bowgun, Heavy Bowgun) just has to deal with consumable ammo instead. But they get explosives, so it's not all bad.

    I'm a LBG main there, running a sort of off-healing set. I like shooting things and healing.
    Last edited by FuzzierSage; 01-21-2020 at 05:35 PM.

  14. #94
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    How about this for balance?

    When you hit something with a sword it becomes blunt, so how about we scale down melee damage by say 1% each time you score a hit? After the battle you can get your whetstone out to sharpen the blade and bring it back up to its full potential.
    Naaa.

    In D&D items have to be masterwork in order to even retain an enchantment when applied. We have found Katana in archaeological battle site digs which are 700 years old which are forged so well they would still cut through white oak using nothing but the blade weight and a lateral pull. I'd say they fit the "masterwork" description.

    This is before we discuss "magic" being applied.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

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    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    What? IPS requires you line up mobs and target the one in back. As mobs move, and in wide open areas, it actually takes some work to use IPS effectively.

    Meanwhile a casters meteor swarm or a cone of cold spell just hits everything in front of you without a lot of aiming. And there's no DPS loss there.

    THF cleave has DPS loss, but it's a lot easier (although more dangerous) to use than IPS.
    I agree.

    I've been one shot fireballing groups of mobs to level a sorc. IPS gets nowhere near this effectiveness.

    While the impact of the damage dealt will change in epics, the skill level to pull it off having a lower skill floor than trying to keep all mobs in a conga line while always targeting the one furthest back, remains the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  16. #96
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I agree.

    I've been one shot fireballing groups of mobs to level a sorc. IPS gets nowhere near this effectiveness.
    That's my mistake then.... Acid Sorc….
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmGhandi View Post
    That's my mistake then.... Acid Sorc….
    Acid Blast (3rd level spell). Sorc has so many spellpoints and does so much damage that you don't really "need" the SLAs once you've got even half-useful spellpower gear.

    And once you hit 9th level spells, Acid Well's a Fort save for half, so basically everything not immune will take at least half damage. Great for getting around Evasion.

    I don't necessarily think Sorcerer should be nerfed, but I think somewhere between PM Wizard and Sorcerer is a good power level for most casting classes.

    And them saying ranged AoE is "too easy" (to use) with IPS when it has the strictest requirements in the game and a non-trivial need to line up enemies makes me start looking sideways even at stuff like Casting Arti TacDet, let alone Sorcerer.

    Less in a "nerf that" and more a "this seems to be the right hand not talking to the left" sorta thing.

  18. #98
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Fire seems to have it easier than Acid.
    Water seems to have it easier than Air.

    At least in my experience.

    Maybe I try an Acid 2ndry Fire Sorc….. cycling max/empowered Acid Spray / Burning Hands
    Maybe even "Accellerated" ftw?
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  19. #99
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmGhandi View Post
    Fire seems to have it easier than Acid.
    Water seems to have it easier than Air.

    At least in my experience.

    Maybe I try an Acid 2ndry Fire Sorc….. cycling max/empowered Acid Spray / Burning Hands
    Maybe even "Accellerated" ftw?
    At endgame it depends on the content as to which is superior.

    For leveling I havent found anything easier than fire sorc. Its not even close.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  20. #100
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    An undisclosed location. I asked my captors but they remain tight lipped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzierSage View Post
    You should be getting full value for your points put into any tree, but you also shouldn't be able to double-dip a Universal Tree with actual class features. And that's where Inquisitive's big problem came in.
    Thank you. I've said my piece, for the most part, but I do agree with your statement above. To me, Inquisitive just smelled like a class all its own.
    I agree with most of what you said, but this just stood out.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

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