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  1. #61
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    Some changes to the AI would benefit too. Enemy casters should see ranged toons as their main threat because we are, a wizard isn't going to get up close and personal with a fighter by choice so initially the threat should remain with the ranged unless the fighters get too close. This is a PVE game and I think we would all benefit from some changes to the AI.
    Great point! I like that one. I am a fan of AI changes, as well.
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  2. #62
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    I've posted suggestions elsewhere but here's a fresh batch.
    I fail to see how IPS is unbalanced. I've never hit more than five targets at once and that was only because I was actively trying to line them up while solo and playing around. A Wizard's AOE spell isn't reduced because damage is shared among the targets. IPS is the only AOE ranged attack, has the highest requirements and still doesn't hit nearly as many targets because it is a line AOE. Fireball, Acid Blast, etc are all more effective for AOE.

    I'd like to see the data that supports a consistent large number of kills by IPS. The kill numbers are higher because ranged is ranged. Melee have to run to meet them, Range just sits back and pew-pew-pew.


    Ranged balancing suggestions:
    -Repeaters have a small chance to jam- 3 second animation of "tap, rack, bang". Small being "2%" chance.

    -IPS have full damage but a limited number of uses per rest.

    -Give mobs an ability to "charge" the ranged when aggro exceeds 200%, ignoring the dominant aggro puller.

    -Introduce a Trip danger for running backwards with aggro (kiting). Small percentage per second while running backwards. (probably inflict a lot of lag doing calcs, though).

    Melee Balancing:
    -Melee (Medium and large weapons) should do more base damage or hit faster than ranged. Bolts and arrows have a considerably smaller impact area than a dagger, axe, long sword, etc. Scimitars (and Khopeshes) were designed to inflict long, deep cuts and there's no reason they can't drag across several targets as a result. Limit the max damage; Place a cap on the max damage based on the missile enhancement (including conjured). The launcher- bow/crossbow- should only calculate the precision. The arrow or bolt should only calculate the damage.

    -Increase the damage absorption in general from shields and armor.

    -Medium armor should allow evasion with a (-1 or -2) negative modifier since it's slightly more cumbersome. (look at the weight of your armor and then at your max inventory weight allowance and tell me evasion doesn't make sense for the Medium armor). While 3.5 doesn't allow for it, stats are ridiculously inflated in DDO so the comparison goes out the window. (FvSs and Barbs would benefit were this added to their melee enhancement trees.)
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

  3. #63
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    I have no idea how to improve melee, I avoid melee classes like the plague and have always preferred ranged classes. But your suggestions look fine. Making them more survivable by ramping up PRR especially, fighters should be able to soak up a few hits. Some changes to the AI would benefit too. Enemy casters should see ranged toons as their main threat because we are, a wizard isn't going to get up close and personal with a fighter by choice so initially the threat should remain with the ranged unless the fighters get too close. This is a PVE game and I think we would all benefit from some changes to the AI.
    +1 on the AI improvement. I thought about putting something similar in my own suggestions but figured I ran on long enough. The mobs should have their target priorities encoded.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

  4. #64
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Ok. How would you suggest? My suggestions for improving melees would be to look at one or more of the following:

    1) Alter Dire Charge to only work with your primary melee damage stat and only work with a melee weapon equipped.
    2) Add more AoE CC options for melees (using feats) that take effect before level 29. Similar to Dire Charge but ones that work on different types of mobs or attack different saves values so that there are more options and strategy.
    3) Increase the PRR advantages of heavy and medium armor. Dodge/Evasion/SA builds are doing better than Heavy Armor/Medium Armor builds.
    4) Increase the MRR cap for light armor melees and add some MRR for DPS melees. Require melee weapon equipped. Put it in the Core 6 for Shintao, Tempest, Kensai, Ravager, Berzerker, and Assassin.
    5) Increase the Attack Speed on the shield mastery feats to make a one handed melee weapon + shield be a viable offensive option with some defense. Add defensive benefits of shields via feats with pre-reqs or in trees that limit the access by ranged and casters.

    Melees don't need more DPS, per se. They need more ability to avoid and/or absorb damage.

    The point that is being made, overall, is that generic comments like "don't nerf IPS" and "I don't like this" and "buff melee don't nerf ranged" are OK not particularly actionable. It is helpful to get a feel for the community, but it is more helpful to propose solutions you think make sense than to just neg presented solutions you don't like.
    "don't nerf IPS" et al is actionable in the context of ranged builds in general not being OP, though - the solution is that there is no problem with them in the first place, just Inq in particular, so nerf Inq in particular and be done with it

  5. #65
    Hero Noir's Avatar
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    Here's my take on the IPS adjustment.
    The DEV's have analyzed the data and determined that IPS is the single most OP feat/enhancement across ALL ranged characters. ( The Outlier )

    For them to balance ranged against other ranged, melee, and caster characters they have to develop a common baseline.
    Once that baseline is achieved ( IPS adjustment ) then they adjust the other non OP feats,enhancements, firing rates for each weapon type until a semblance of balance is achieved. The IPS adjustment is just to establish the baseline against what all other ranged adjustments will be made from. And thus is necessary before any other adjustments can be made.
    Originally Posted by grodon9999
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  6. #66
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    "don't nerf IPS" et al is actionable in the context of ranged builds in general not being OP, though - the solution is that there is no problem with them in the first place, just Inq in particular, so nerf Inq in particular and be done with it
    Having run GXBow Mechanics, Star Chuckers, and Repeater ranged builds as well as Wolf splashes, Tempest, Assassin VkF, and Kensai TWF builds extensively over the last 2 years, it is my opinion that ranged IS over performing compared to melee for physical DPS independent of the Inquisitive tree. Inquisitive was an outlier of an outlier. Not the only outlier.
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  7. #67
    Hero Noir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Having run GXBow Mechanics, Star Chuckers, and Repeater ranged builds as well as Wolf splashes, Tempest, Assassin VkF, and Kensai TWF builds extensively over the last 2 years, it is my opinion that ranged IS over performing compared to melee for physical DPS independent of the Inquisitive tree. Inquisitive was an outlier of an outlier. Not the only outlier.
    Agreed, I too have played all the builds you listed.
    What you stated is pretty much in line with my post above yours.
    Originally Posted by grodon9999
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    The DEV's have analyzed the data and determined that IPS is the single most OP feat/enhancement across ALL ranged characters.
    I didn't think it was "ranged" that needed an adjustment, I thought it was specifically Inquisitive. Any changes to IPS will affect pretty much every ranged build in the game and I'm sure we can agree that shortbow and longbow users can not afford a hit to dps. There have been entire threads about how lacking bow users are and nobody mentioned IPS being OP then. As IPS works the same for every ranged build regardless of the weapon used the problem with Inquisitives must lie elsewhere. We didn't have that many complaints about Inquisitive (there were lots but not as many) before the changes to Shiradi so Shiradi seems a likely culprit. Everything else that's problematic must lie in the Inquisitive tree. So why are we even talking about IPS and Rapid Shot which are staples for every ranged build? I play ranged builds, it's my preferred playstyle. I've tested out my current raiding build on Lamannia and it looks to me like I've taken a 40% hit to dps on a toon that is pure dps so it's no longer going to be viable for raids or high reapers, but as every other ranged build is also taking a hit it logically follows that no ranged build is going to be viable. I'm already outclassed by Sorcs, Assassins, insta-killers, and no, it's not that the people playing them have all the past lives (they do, but so do I). I've done the grind that was asked of me to be able to compete in the highest tier of difficulty the game has to offer and in one fell swoop that is going to be taken away from me. So what options are left for me after this patch as a ranged toon?

  9. #69
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    I didn't think it was "ranged" that needed an adjustment, I thought it was specifically Inquisitive. Any changes to IPS will affect pretty much every ranged build in the game and I'm sure we can agree that shortbow and longbow users can not afford a hit to dps. There have been entire threads about how lacking bow users are and nobody mentioned IPS being OP then.
    Bow changes have been announced to be coming to address this issue. I think that was the point of the 10% ranged alacrity in DWS and the crit multiplier in DWS. They aren't enough, though, so more bow changes are coming, but they haven't revealed them yet.

    It is clear that the devs are saying ranged, outside bows, are too high. Their targets seem to be bringing bows up while bringing other ranged down to level the field a bit.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    It is clear that the devs are saying ranged, outside bows, are too high. Their targets seem to be bringing bows up while bringing other ranged down to level the field a bit.
    I know what the plan is, but my testing reveals a 40% hit to my build so the changes to bows, if brought up to the level of my post-nerf build, will be far from enough to make them viable and Inquisitives will no longer be able to compete. The bar they are aiming for is now set too low and will detriment every ranged build and the game as a whole. One of two things is going to happen, either Alchemist will be OP and everyone will play Alchemist, or it won't and everyone will play Sorc, but what about us people who want to play a ranged toon?

    Edit: There's also another aspect to this that has not been discussed. By forcing my playstyle and making me change my build it will actually cost me money. I have every slot filled in my sentient items and augment slots that will cost money to be removed if I end up playing a different class and want to reuse them. That's not even factoring in the grind I'll have to go through to gear up a new class. I'm really not happy.
    Last edited by Loholt-UK; 01-20-2020 at 03:51 PM.

  11. #71
    Community Member ahpook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    For them to balance ranged against other ranged, melee, and caster characters they have to develop a common baseline.
    Once that baseline is achieved ( IPS adjustment ) then they adjust the other non OP feats,enhancements, firing rates for each weapon type until a semblance of balance is achieved. The IPS adjustment is just to establish the baseline against what all other ranged adjustments will be made from. And thus is necessary before any other adjustments can be made.
    I can certainly go along with this reasoning. I still think the 20% penalty for the stance is bad solution because it forces a player to swap stances a lot and that is clunky game play.

  12. #72
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    ahhhh

    Just send it all live

    Why break with tradition?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Why? Give us your feedback. Just telling us "I don't like it" doesn't help us improve.
    Thf should be an aoe fighting style, with ST you are making it a single target style until what? Lvl 12 or above? And even then only hitting two targets if they're near each others and in front of you. I tried it on Lama and couldn't hit anything that wasn't right in front of me.

    As it is on live servers right now i can roll a barb, take one feat and hit everyone in my hitbox from lvl 1. It's not going to be much dmg, but it's something, especially in a game where tens of mobs attack you at the same time and you have no cc options.

    The only way to improve thf is to totally scrap ST, make GBs crit/vorpal/etc and make cleaves work with fury in epics (my experience is that it only works with the first mob on the right of the toon). Aoe should mean more than 2 targets (with a possible 3rd) at cap.

    But history tells me that nothing can change the dev team's mind when you're dead set on a bad change, no matter what players say.

    ST is a nerf to the weakest combat style and "I don't like it".

  14. #74
    Hatchery Hero Dark_Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Signed.

    Speaking for only myself, I gave up on supplying any specific feedback a long time ago. I gave up on the test or preview servers, too. As well as reporting bugs.

    I was once extremely passionate about this game. The term "fanboy" was pretty much created for the degree I was drinking the DDO Kool-Aid. But, the game has had Devs in the past who would create punitive measures in response to feedback. There is one particularly hideous piece of armor that was created in direct response to players asking for better looking armor. A Dev once worked on their own time because he hated that you used to be able to spin your character while sitting at rest shrines, implemented it, and when players complained about the suddenly missing quirk... they were told to shut up. I also had a Developer tell me on the invite-only test server that he was glad I didn't like something being tested because "It wasn't for you." There are a multitude of other examples, sadly...
    100% agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Such as? If you don't tell us what you don't like, we don't have a way of knowing what you want.

    I can tell you that the best way to ensure your feedback isn't respected is to provide no feedback whatsoever. I'd like to give you what you want, but without specifics, telling me that "you're unhappy" doesn't give me anything to work with.
    Sorry, but none of the current crop of devs would understand and always seem offended when we put forth our "opinions".

    Here I go: I have been here since it was a gleam in Turbine eyes. The original concept was based on market research (can't compete directly with MMOs, needed to be faithful to the 2 million+ D&D players) The design was instanced DUNGEONs (See it is in the NAME!) and Dragons (the joke part we didn't have one at the start). A PARTY of balanced adventurers work together to overcome evil (and loot along the way) and not 40+ people sitting there just beating on stuff or stealing from each other. It polled quite favorably at the conventions as long as you are faitherful to the published rule set and was story based. The thought was early AD&D to keep it simple, but 3.5E was chosen for popularity as well as the (cheapness) of Eberron as a pre-made world. For the most part, it was successful (some rules were changed to adapt to computerized opponents; fly spell was sort of game breaking for dungeon construction - which the faithful understood). The downfall was their technology (it was designed for up to 1000 players for each server instanced and queues for logging on, but they decided to ignore all that and overloaded the servers on cheaper hardware).

    To avoid a lot of past history that was deleted, I just want to get to the now - the devs that came along brought in stuff that killed the spirit:
    There was a community support person who didn't like D&D, a producer who didn't like players (pretty much trashed them - I think there is a video an employee made of him insulting players) and the bevy of Devs who didn't believe in AD&D.

    One of the early examples of lore tossed aside:
    Vorpal blade (going snicker-snack) was super sharp edged weapon.
    Mace of Smiting (the strongest adamantine blunt weapon) adamantine weapon to destroy the most solid golem

    Now, those can be found on any weapon.

    There was the injection of PvP that they redid the engine and spells to support it - where is that PvP / leaderboard now?
    *Kind of like the idea now of the hardcore server changing how the rules function*
    Hardcore was designed NOT TO DIE. Therefore, the gameplay of people on that server is either to NOT DIE AT ALL or grief other players (yes they exist). Any stats you "learn" from that server are severely weighted toward PERMADEATH playerstyle. I have played PERMADEATH, but I don't want to force that ruleset on other people playing their style.

    Here is your TL;DR Lynnabel:
    I LOVE to play casual style (not min-maxed builds). I only played an inquis build ONCE (I think dual wielding hand-crossbows is moronic). I don't want to take that build away from other players, but I HATE how DEVs (that don't love AD&D 3.5) are changing the game because of the power of certain builds (THAT I DON'T PLAY).

    After each update, someone keeps changing the rules (Nerfing / having to rebuild characters) because somewhere someone is exploiting a build.
    I don't care about that build.
    I DO care that I have to change my character / having to relearn some new rules when I just want to relax and play a game that has published rules.
    Last edited by Dark_Helmet; 01-20-2020 at 08:19 PM.
    Oh, that's easy. I didn't farm them. I just cheated. -Meghan
    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    lol, I didnt give it a QA pass.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Signed.

    Speaking for only myself, I gave up on supplying any specific feedback a long time ago. I gave up on the test or preview servers, too. As well as reporting bugs.

    I was once extremely passionate about this game. The term "fanboy" was pretty much created for the degree I was drinking the DDO Kool-Aid. But, the game has had Devs in the past who would create punitive measures in response to feedback. There is one particularly hideous piece of armor that was created in direct response to players asking for better looking armor. A Dev once worked on their own time because he hated that you used to be able to spin your character while sitting at rest shrines, implemented it, and when players complained about the suddenly missing quirk... they were told to shut up. I also had a Developer tell me on the invite-only test server that he was glad I didn't like something being tested because "It wasn't for you." There are a multitude of other examples, sadly...

    Now, I just take the game as it comes. My initial reaction to changes hasn't dulled over the years - but my impulse to be vocal about it (outside of very rare occasions) has been. And while it is true that the current Dev team has gotten much better... there is still a perception among players that y'all don't measure twice and cut once. Vocal negative feedback has gone unacknowledged and changes unmade. New features are regularly either nakedly overpowered necessitating future nerfing (and prompting complaints of bait-and-switch tactics, since the nerfs seem to come just before the next OP thing we will need to buy) or harsh nerfs to existing features that seem to be blown out of proportion to the general population in response to very niche and narrow examples of over-performance.

    My enthusiasm for the game has waxed and waned over the intervening years. U45 is looking like it's going to be waning cycle, because I am also really unhappy with a lot of what I've seen on the docket. I'm poking my head out of my shell of self-imposed ennui just this once to say so, since you asked and I very much respect what you have done as a developer, Lynn. But, I don't expect any actual change to occur as a result. For a long time, I used the image of Charlie Brown getting dumped on his butt trying to kick the football as the summation of how I felt towards DDO Development. I got a fair share of my Legendary Reputation status from those posts because a lot of folks agreed with it. . I'm tired of ending up on my butt... and, rightly or wrongly, I still feel like that will be the only result from trying to alter any future development.



    Absolutely. Even Lynn has more or less failed me three updates in a row. It's just the people we have destroying the systems made by those who came before.
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  16. #76
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    I've played a few ranged lives and I don't get how IPS is "FULL aoe all the time." I consider myself pretty good at lining up enemies but most of the time I'm only hitting my main target and maybe one more. And then you can only really line everything up perfectly if you have all the aggro or have a partner that you synchronize 100% with Evangelion-style or something.

    Personally, I'm on board with whoever suggested to just nerf the inquis tree if that's the issue, and not fiddle with IPS and rapid reload and such.
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  17. #77
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Bow changes have been announced to be coming to address this issue. I think that was the point of the 10% ranged alacrity in DWS and the crit multiplier in DWS. They aren't enough, though, so more bow changes are coming, but they haven't revealed them yet.

    It is clear that the devs are saying ranged, outside bows, are too high. Their targets seem to be bringing bows up while bringing other ranged down to level the field a bit.
    So bows will be great, so long as all you want to play is ranger.

    Follower of the Silver Flame says hello. Meaning, what if one wants to play an Archer, but doesn't want to play ranger? What if one prefers to play Druid, or any other class? "Sorry, but IPS was 'overperforming', so you're just out of luck unless you decide to go Ranger for the DWS changes". The problem is, they went with a nuclear option, when a surgical strike was what was required, and they're getting lots of confirmation from those that are mad that they can't run fast enough to hit mobs before the Inquisitive kills them. We can bandy about this all year, but until Inquisitive, I never saw threads dedicated to IPS needs to be nerfed. We never had "Nerf IPS Thursday", unlike any other thing that's been marked as overperforming since I've been here.

    I've played FvS AA, Ranger AA, Druid AA, Wizard AA, a 14/6 Druid/Ranger split AA and Bard AA off the top of my head. None of them have been overperforming to the point where they required a 20% nerf to their DPS. In some content, they were more valuable for CC than straight killing power, and who can forget when they wouldn't have even been allowed in groups unless they had a monk splash for monkcher? Now that these builds are, at the most, competitive, they're going to be reduced back to "well, I guess we can carry you through x" because someone was mad at Inquisitive. That is the catalyst, I've got way too much time in this game playing AAs to believe anything else. Souping up the ranger trees isn't going to address the problems that Elven AA is going to face, not by a long shot. (pun sort of intended)

  18. #78
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Bow changes have been announced to be coming to address this issue. I think that was the point of the 10% ranged alacrity in DWS and the crit multiplier in DWS. They aren't enough, though, so more bow changes are coming, but they haven't revealed them yet.
    To be fair, they only teased the changes, not announced them. We don't know what they will be like. And there is no timeline for it, either. Bows have been underperforming for years (outside of ooccasional over-optimized meta builds), so it's not like the issue is new. Who says we won't be waiting for the "promised" changes for another 10 years?
    Last edited by Ausdoerrt; 01-21-2020 at 03:38 AM.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagin View Post
    SNIP

    SSG IF you spent the resources on changing the biggest content debacle ever made.... REAPER enhancement trees SNIP SSG you've divided the player base, and in the process lost a lot of long term players.
    'Off-topic' but hell is it worth mentioning!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzierSage View Post
    SNIP
    ALL of this is worth reading - lack of sleep gets the brain juices flowing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    The biggest issue is that ranged has been overpowered for so long, that it has erroneously become the baseline for a lot of the player base emotionally.

    Even before inquisitive, the ability for a ranged toon to do FULL single target physical DPS and do FULL AoE physical DPS while at full movement speed and being constantly out of melee range (the predominant form of mob damage in the game) and have that DPS be on par with top tier melee DPS is unbalanced. It has been since around U29 and only getting progressively worse with the addition of Reaper.

    The addition of Epic Defensive Fighting was a part of an effort to address the imbalance. It didn't do enough. I'd have done something different than IPS, but those changes would have probably been less popular. I think one (or some combination of) these would make more sense:

    1) Significant ROF penalty when ranged toons are attacking while moving or jumping. Lessen it if they have Shot on the run.
    2) Significant To-Hit penalty when ranged toons are attacking while moving or jumping. Lessen it if they have Shot on the run.
    3) Reduced movement speed when ranged toons are attacking while moving. Lessen it if they have Shot on the run.
    4) The equivalent to an attack of opportunity when a ranged weapon is being used while a mob is in melee range (unless the mob is held/tripped/stunned/dazed, etc). Reduced defenses for the ranged toon from those attacks.
    5) Reduced To-Hit and/or RoF when a ranged weapon is being used while a mob is in melee range and is aggro'd on them (unless the mob is held/tripped/stunned/dazed, etc).

    Compared to those, a nerf to IPS might be preferable. I don't know.

    I do know that the idea that you can strike multiple targets with a single projectile and have full ranged power on each one doesn't make sense. If you fire a bullet or arrow and it passes through the first target, the second target is getting hit with less force. That makes sense. Honestly, IPS should not be an option with a throwing star or throwning dagger anyways. How exactly does a shuriken pass through 3-4 targets? I could see a crossbow bolt or arrow doing it (if it was only going through soft tissue on the first target) but allowing that feat to work with all ranged options is, by itself, over powered, and creates the issue we have where bows are less DPS somehow than stars and daggers, even at long excessively long ranges. (But that is a balance issue between different ranged combat styles. And that is a different topic)

    Regardless, if you don't like the IPS nerf for all ranged, what solution do you propose for balancing melee and ranged? Just not nerfing IPS isn't a solution. It still leaves a problem to be solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Ok. How would you suggest? My suggestions for improving melees would be to look at one or more of the following:

    1) Alter Dire Charge to only work with your primary melee damage stat and only work with a melee weapon equipped.
    2) Add more AoE CC options for melees (using feats) that take effect before level 29. Similar to Dire Charge but ones that work on different types of mobs or attack different saves values so that there are more options and strategy.
    3) Increase the PRR advantages of heavy and medium armor. Dodge/Evasion/SA builds are doing better than Heavy Armor/Medium Armor builds.
    4) Increase the MRR cap for light armor melees and add some MRR for DPS melees. Require melee weapon equipped. Put it in the Core 6 for Shintao, Tempest, Kensai, Ravager, Berzerker, and Assassin.
    5) Increase the Attack Speed on the shield mastery feats to make a one handed melee weapon + shield be a viable offensive option with some defense. Add defensive benefits of shields via feats with pre-reqs or in trees that limit the access by ranged and casters.

    Melees don't need more DPS, per se. They need more ability to avoid and/or absorb damage.

    The point that is being made, overall, is that generic comments like "don't nerf IPS" and "I don't like this" and "buff melee don't nerf ranged" are OK not particularly actionable. It is helpful to get a feel for the community, but it is more helpful to propose solutions you think make sense than to just neg presented solutions you don't like.
    Examples of posts that generate healthy discussion and alternatives to tinker with - is SSG's initial brainstorming platform (Player Council???!?) not doing this BEFORE you make a whole new mechanic and then clearly can't justify the cost of scrapping it?!

  20. #80
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    300

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GroundhogDay View Post
    Thf should be an aoe fighting style, with ST you are making it a single target style until what? Lvl 12 or above? And even then only hitting two targets if they're near each others and in front of you. I tried it on Lama and couldn't hit anything that wasn't right in front of me.

    As it is on live servers right now i can roll a barb, take one feat and hit everyone in my hitbox from lvl 1. It's not going to be much dmg, but it's something, especially in a game where tens of mobs attack you at the same time and you have no cc options.

    The only way to improve thf is to totally scrap ST, make GBs crit/vorpal/etc and make cleaves work with fury in epics (my experience is that it only works with the first mob on the right of the toon). Aoe should mean more than 2 targets (with a possible 3rd) at cap.

    But history tells me that nothing can change the dev team's mind when you're dead set on a bad change, no matter what players say.

    ST is a nerf to the weakest combat style and "I don't like it".
    Honorary mention!
    Last edited by ned_ellis; 01-21-2020 at 07:43 AM.

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