Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    5,041

    Default Martial Lore - That Melees Might Live

    We have Religious Lore, Arcane Lore, and Wilderness Lore.

    Why not Martial Lore?

    This feat grants represents your knowledge of Arms. Characters with this feat are granted Sturdiness in armor they are proficient in at a rate of 0.5 per feat in Light armor, 1.5 per feat in Medium armor, and 2.5 per feat in Heavy armor, where Sturdiness is modifier applied to all incoming damage.

    Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin receive this feat at every level.

    .

    Hence, a pure L20 melee would get a 50% modifier to all incoming damage in heavy armor, 70% in medium, and 90% in light.

    This gives Fighter/Paladin an advantage since they get Heavy proficiency for free but Barbarian still gets a hefty reduction and can always just spend a feat on it or splash. Making it per feat also prevents non-melee splashers from getting much benefit.

  2. #2
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Multiverse club
    Posts
    820

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    We have Religious Lore, Arcane Lore, and Wilderness Lore.

    Why not Martial Lore?

    This feat grants represents your knowledge of Arms. Characters with this feat are granted Sturdiness in armor they are proficient in at a rate of 0.5 per feat in Light armor, 1.5 per feat in Medium armor, and 2.5 per feat in Heavy armor, where Sturdiness is modifier applied to all incoming damage.

    Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin receive this feat at every level.

    .

    Hence, a pure L20 melee would get a 50% modifier to all incoming damage in heavy armor, 70% in medium, and 90% in light.

    This gives Fighter/Paladin an advantage since they get Heavy proficiency for free but Barbarian still gets a hefty reduction and can always just spend a feat on it or splash. Making it per feat also prevents non-melee splashers from getting much benefit.




    I support any idea that would give real toughness and flexibility Fighter and Barbarian classes.

    (or a new enhancement tree which is not supernatural but martial, skills and feats based- such as universal rogue alll the delicious skills/fighter all the delicious feats, tactics and bonus to any type of armor you wear light and cloth aswell !/no rage skilled and patient barb combo rerworked by developers)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idK...D40ED8CDBC2B22
    Old grumpy Human Rogue/Thingy pretending to be a monstrous humanoid

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,212

    Default

    A design problem seems to be that martial classes can also go ranged. And enjoy free defense for free. Is this intended?

  4. #4
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    4,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    A design problem seems to be that martial classes can also go ranged. And enjoy free defense for free. Is this intended?
    Maybe this could be mitigated by only applied when a melee weapon and or shield is equipped.
    Leader of Legion of Eberron on Cannith.

    Characters: Loromir & Baldomir....among others.

  5. #5
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Multiverse club
    Posts
    820

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    A design problem seems to be that martial classes can also go ranged. And enjoy free defense for free. Is this intended?


    My point of view is ranged and caster characters allready have fair enough defense but warrior dont have without passing clicky items or grinding for epic destinies and have to stick to those destinies just for cocoon and shadow tricks etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idK...D40ED8CDBC2B22
    Old grumpy Human Rogue/Thingy pretending to be a monstrous humanoid

  6. #6
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    A design problem seems to be that martial classes can also go ranged. And enjoy free defense for free. Is this intended?
    it is an oversight

    Loromir's solution is the obvious answer

    it could be that with the significant nerfs to the universal Inquisitive tree this could be a way of letting ranged fighter/barb/pals compete with ranged rangers/rogues, but i don't really think that's a good goal so yeah, i would stick with Loromir's solution

  7. #7
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,222

    Default

    Paladins get Religious lore and Barbarian gets Wilderness lore to work with.

    Martial lore would likely be given to Fighters, Rogues, Monks ( thematically). Among them only melee and least supported ranged Fighters are in need for extra survival on the high end. Extra armor class or dodge cap in heavy armor and tower shield would be decent options for tanking/survival. Could also be something to avoid missile damage, tower shields in DDO really missing this aspect ~ large protection against missiles.

  8. #8
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,671

    Default

    1. this is double dipping on bab to prr
    2. this is hamfistedly redefining martial classes, since everywhere else barb and rangers are primal and paladins are divine.
    3. would kill any melee build that isn't "martial", eg, monks, druids, ek, assassins, warpriest etc

  9. #9
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Paladins get Religious lore and Barbarian gets Wilderness lore to work with.

    Martial lore would likely be given to Fighters, Rogues, Monks ( thematically). Among them only melee and least supported ranged Fighters are in need for extra survival on the high end. Extra armor class or dodge cap in heavy armor and tower shield would be decent options for tanking/survival. Could also be something to avoid missile damage, tower shields in DDO really missing this aspect ~ large protection against missiles.
    they do, but Bards have already established a precedent for multi-lore classes

    Barbarians and Paladins being listed under "Melee" in the character creation dialog is enough for me mainly the goal is offering a real defensive advantage for melee classes without evasion

  10. #10
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    1. this is double dipping on bab to prr
    2. this is hamfistedly redefining martial classes, since everywhere else barb and rangers are primal and paladins are divine.
    3. would kill any melee build that isn't "martial", eg, monks, druids, ek, assassins, warpriest etc
    1. yes, it is, because PRR didn't turn out to differentiate heavily armored from lightly armored enough, the same way AC didn't and so we invented PRR in the first place

    2. not on the character creation dialog

    3. monks and assassins have evasion and higher dodge, ek and priest have innate self-healing. i haven't played a druid so i can't speak to them personally but it looks like from the wiki they get both, so they seem fine to me

  11. #11
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Multiverse club
    Posts
    820

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    1. this is double dipping on bab to prr
    2. this is hamfistedly redefining martial classes, since everywhere else barb and rangers are primal and paladins are divine.
    3. would kill any melee build that isn't "martial", eg, monks, druids, ek, assassins, warpriest etc


    It should kill all other builds. They are not meant to be martial classes. Those classes' other tricks should be empowered for sure.
    Last edited by Kutalp; 01-22-2020 at 04:32 PM.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idK...D40ED8CDBC2B22
    Old grumpy Human Rogue/Thingy pretending to be a monstrous humanoid

  12. #12
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    what i thought of later is monks/rangers/rogues should probably get half levels of it, like bards get half of divine and wilderness. monks wouldn't get anything out of the initial rollout anyway, and since r/r have strong incentives to wear light, i think we can throw them a bone to cut damage down to 95%

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee River Valley
    Posts
    293

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post

    Why not Martial Lore?

    This feat grants represents your knowledge of Arms. Characters with this feat are granted Sturdiness in armor they are proficient in at a rate of 0.5 per feat in Light armor, 1.5 per feat in Medium armor, and 2.5 per feat in Heavy armor, where Sturdiness is modifier applied to all incoming damage.

    Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin receive this feat at every level.
    This is a good idea. Details are arguable, but an auto-granted 'lore' feat seems a simple enough fix to develop.


    Edit: Simple 'Damage Reduction' like a barb gets might be suitable. For a level 20 heavy fighter a DR of 20?
    Last edited by Sonoma; 01-23-2020 at 12:40 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload