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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    I hate to say it because I would love to exploit... err use it but nerf the nightforge dart now, with full alch throwing support it will be the new ratcatcher.
    Or, say, Barb with Brutal Throw - Ravager heal-on-hit will be immensely useful with Simple Weapon Expertise and Multitude of Missiles and IPS. You'll be throwing 4-5 projectiles per cycle, each one hitting multiple mobs, with a chance to proc heals on each hit, and you get the same +2 Crit Range (though no Mult).

    Inqui at least had the tradeoff of needing the T5s to really get high fire rate (30% Alacrity and NHB). Darts now get full functionality for only a couple feats, letting you pair crazy high ROF with any other T5 that benefits from it.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Similar reviews of inquisitive were posted in the Lama stage.
    There are always people who want more power, but there are also bugs that make OP trees go undetected during testing. If people test a class where key features do not work (like poison damage scaling), they can suddenly get turn OP once they are released on live with (most) bugs fixed. I believe Inq got at least some power this way. I recall saying the tree seemed OP just from the description alone.

    I see potential for Alchemist to also go this way, but it's less clear than for Inq. At least the ranged poison tree looks very strong on paper. It has AA-like imbues on with more projectiles, but their new Many Shot is definitely worse than the TTS of monk throwers. I wonder how they intend to balance this against AA. If they think AA is too powerful in heroics already, try it with 50-100% more projectiles. At cap it's not going to have pre-nerf Inq DPS, or even monk throwers probably, but it's still going to be a very popular ranged option until then just because the class has everything else: heals, saves, evasion, cc. There is a fine line here for what is OP or not.

    The spell casting aspect is so complicated that I'm not sure about that. It's more likely to be one of those trees that are very good while levelling but falls behind in the end-game.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 01-17-2020 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    The spell casting part is so complicated that I'm not sure about that. It's more likely to be one of those trees that are very good while levelling but falls behind in the end-game.
    You understand it well, this is why i am holding back feedback for now, it would be too easy to judge based on mid level performance, but I could not get far enough to see how it scales when it meets actually tough instances.

    It is also one thing to 1 shot things naked in old elites because mobs have 700hps, and another to barely hurt 11000hps champions at the same level range in new content....

    I am optimistic about Alchemist looks really fun so far, art is great, good craft really, the rest is getting the numbers right.


    Waiting for P2 to get it into real content, done with the dojo for now.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    You understand it well, this is why i am holding back feedback for now, it would be too easy to judge based on mid level performance, but I could not get far enough to see how it scales when it meets actually tough instances.

    It is also one thing to 1 shot things naked in old elites because mobs have 700hps, and another to barely hurt 11000hps champions at the same level range in new content....

    I am optimistic about Alchemist looks really fun so far, art is great, good craft really, the rest is getting the numbers right.


    Waiting for P2 to get it into real content, done with the dojo for now.
    Spamming the MultiVials looked potentially OP no paper, but building for it is going be a nightmare, and the flat epic reaper energy resistance is really going to hurt 5 separate hits. I wish they would just make all flat mob energy resistances a percentage, it currently disproportionally hurts fast small attacks like EK and AA imbues.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    2. Darts may get out of control. Please preemptively reduce the 16-20 / x3 crit profile of NightForge Spike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    It's not the weapon, it's how it's used and how the systems use it.
    I don't think it's darts, I think it's Nightforge Spike having +4 range and +1 multiplier as a fully stacking bonus. It wasn't much of a problem when throwing darts sucked, but now that they won't it's a bit unbalanced.

    Imagine a greatclub with a starting crit profile of 16-20/x3 - there would be a ton of greatclub builds just because of that. Greatclubs suck currently, but that's such a power boost that it'd make club builds a thing. I'd be on a club build if there was one of those.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    I don't think it's darts, I think it's Nightforge Spike having +4 range and +1 multiplier as a fully stacking bonus. It wasn't much of a problem when throwing darts sucked, but now that they won't it's a bit unbalanced.
    Yeah I think NFS was designed to individually compensate for Darts having no other support before, so now that they do have support its kinda double-dipping.

    Counterpoint, though - Darts are only 5% crit natively, so IC:T is only going to add +1 range. Most "featured" weapons that are only 5% will end up getting double effect of IC, ie KT battleaxes. So NFS probably isnt THAT far off the mark of where it "should" be. Maybe just reduce its range by 1, like they did for Ratcatcher, for the same reasons. That'd give 14-20/x4 with Alch, which seems in line with 15-20/x4 for Swash Kensei (effectively 13-20/x4 with the T5) or 16-20/x4 for various KT builds or 15-20/x4 for Inqui or 17-20/x5 for KT barb, considering they're 1d4 weapons.
    Last edited by droid327; 01-17-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    From what I recall, they got a slight direct and indirect buff in the patch though. They also aren't that much worse than other melee late-game when their lack of MP/+dmg is comparatively less.

    Biggest problem with War Priest is just that it has no interesting combat mechanic.
    Yeah they got a tiny bit of a buff with the changes to bless and prayer, but it is pretty minor (+4 to hit/ +4 damage vs live assuming it stacks properly)

    Biggest problem imo is there is so much that is just not worth what the devs think it is. Enflame is not worth its AP cost nor its up time. The warpriest actives pretty much suck, raidient flourish should have been a straight up blind, the silence is okish but being single target its pretty meh, ameilorating strike is nice, but the devs nerfed it pretty good in the pass, Divine vessel is weak as always, Divine power is ok, if you go wis based so you can actually use your spell book its only good for the BAB, divine bastion I could do without the extra threat, Divine intervention is pretty dang meh for a T5 and might not even do anything for you in reaper, not to mention im not a fan of enhancements that you have to screw up for them to come into effect.

    Further warpriest's cores are pathetically underpowered, dr 5 is nice when you get it worthless a few levels later. The AC is meh in heroics pretty much useless in epics. You get a bunch of pretty pointless light and fire spell power which if you are doing melee you pretty much wont use. Blur and Haste are not the prizes they once were and are pretty underwhelming for a 12 and 18 core. Implacable foe needs a raid to be worth while and even then its cd is simply too long to be worth it. I think its a fairly fair assesment to put Warpriest as the weakest melee tree by a pretty wide margin.
    Last edited by J-mann; 01-18-2020 at 03:08 AM.

  8. #48
    2016 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Why would we do that? If you see something wrong, please do tell us so we can fix it. If you would like, you are also more than welcome to PM me or anyone else about things like this (or anything else really).
    Because historically you have done this to many great players who provided excellent feedback... erm... "forum whining".
    Griglok (main)- Cleric (TRing), Duelcore- Wiz 18/FvS 2, Embezzler- Rogue, Fiergen- Ftr 8/Rgr 6/Mnk 6, Greyhead- monk, Havegun- Ftr 2/Pal 18, Jayberwocky- Ftr 8/Mnk 12, Laciolux- Clr 16/FvS 4, Prototech- Artificer, Rendorc- Barbarian, Seasharp- Bard
    Leader- The Casual Obsession ___Khyber___

  9. #49
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    This isn't a specific complaint, but more general, something like a Letter to the Editor.

    Sometimes these new releases feel like the teaser rate for a new credit card, or reduced price for the first month(s)/year subscription on a magazine or newspaper. If it is a class or enhancement tree that has to be purchased, whether for VIP and/or Premium/F2P, making it the must-play class because it so outperforms everything else certainly tempts people to make that purchase when a perfectly balanced class or enhancement tree may not. Sales go up. I have no way of knowing if that's how the marketing people plan these things or not, but it certainly looks that way. I have to say, I don't see some evil plot or malign intent in doing so. SSG has to pay the bills and I like having new content.

    And I'm the first to admit it's fun when we get an overpowered class (Warlock) or tree (Inquisitive) and gain a temporary easing of the effort required to level. But I'm sure you (the devs/SSG) understand how it can be frustrating when as a player you're in the middle of a character build that depends on something that we purchased, only to have it changed midstream. Sometimes the changes so cripple or alter the nature of the build it noticeably impairs the fun and I can't wait to TR and dump it. As I said, frustrating.

    The alternative for me has been to time my next TR so I can jump into the new build as soon as it comes out, and rush through it before it gets nerfed.

    But mostly I've learned to tell myself not to fall for it, don't TR into it when everyone is raving about how the new class/tree/build is the very very best, because once I hear that I know it's just a matter of time before the SSG guillotine falls. Often just in time for the next, newest, overpowered purchase to be released. Oops, now I'm sounding cynical.

    All of this is to say, please take your time testing and exercise prudence with new content, and if you realize you've made mistakes, use some restraint in how quickly and how precipitously you re-balance. A long lead-time to warn us that a nerf, I mean, re-balance, is coming is helpful. That would respect the time and effort players have put into these builds, as well as the hard-earned money we have spent to enjoy this excellent game.

    Thank you for your consideration.
    "I didn't change my mind, It changed all by itself" – Luna

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