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  1. #1
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Default Stealth changes: all-seeing and all-hearing don't work while moving

    The stealth changes look like they have some interesting potential, but one thing that might make stealth functional again would be to make it so that all-seeing/all-hearing enemies only have those abilities while they are HOLDING STILL. Due to the difference in timing between the server and your connection it is sometimes really hard to sneak around enemies that are moving around (which is a lot of them). So just flat out removing all-seeing /all-hearing from enemies that are moving around would bring back the ability to use sneaking SKILL (very challenging) to get around these enemies. And, of course, if they're holding still you just have to know to stay X far away from them so as not to get spotted. Give them a second or two once they stop moving before their sensing reasserts itself, time enough for connection lag to catch up, and you've got a working stealth solution.

  2. #2
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Also, all-seeing, all-hearing enemies shouldn't be able to see or hear you* WHEN THEY ARE HIDDEN UNDERGROUND. Or, reduce their awareness radius drastically, to something like 3 units instead of 18.

    * in stealth. Obviously if they couldn't see or hear ANYTHING while underground they'd never come out and this would break the entire game catastrophically.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 01-15-2020 at 07:27 PM.

  3. #3

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    Tremor sense should not work when your toon is floating above the ground while 1) in PM wraith mode, 2) SD wraith mode, and 3) floating from a jump or fall

    They are nerfing stacking sneak speed which saddens me as that was something for flavor toons only but was insanely fun. Sev had said it was WAI some time ago so the reverse decision baffles me... something HC I suppose


    I have not tested the new stuff on LAM since I am not VIP but I guess I will soon find out, thx for the update and suggestions.


    There are massive lore issues with the placement of arachnids in the midst of mobs that they should be eating but they are there to block stealthy players, such as in Finding Dorris and Slavers.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (4), Naerfelka (21)


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Also, all-seeing, all-hearing enemies shouldn't be able to see or hear you* WHEN THEY ARE HIDDEN UNDERGROUND. Or, reduce their awareness radius drastically, to something like 3 units instead of 18.

    * in stealth. Obviously if they couldn't see or hear ANYTHING while underground they'd never come out and this would break the entire game catastrophically.
    I agree on seeing, but all-hearing is called tremorsense... which kinda makes me think they could still "feel" if not hear when underground.

    I also agree that tremorsense should only work when the mob is stationary, idk why all-seeing would have that limit though.

  5. #5
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    I agree on seeing, but all-hearing is called tremorsense... which kinda makes me think they could still "feel" if not hear when underground.

    I also agree that tremorsense should only work when the mob is stationary, idk why all-seeing would have that limit though.
    All-seeing (aka blindsight) in actual pen and paper depends on things like extremely acute hearing or sense of smell (or supernatural senses), it is not actually VISUAL acuity.

    The real reason is so that you have a decent shot at sneaking accurately when dealing with moving mobs and latency.

  6. #6
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Tremor sense should not work when your toon is floating above the ground while 1) in PM wraith mode, 2) SD wraith mode, and 3) floating from a jump or fall
    Enlightened Spirit floatiness, too. I'm for this, sure. I'd really like to see challenging but functional stealth be a part of the game again.

    Likewise "all-seeing" should not pierce invisibility unless the mob has True Sight or See Invisible on top of that.

  7. #7
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    I don't tend to have much difficulty sneaking past most regular type mobs regardless of whether they are moving around. Although I do prefer to silently neutralise and thin out certain targets due to the current malfunctioning chain reaction aggravation.

    Saekee, I presume you already know that anyone can access Lamannia and get 'Unlimited DDO Points' to spend in the "(Preview) DDO Store". That is regardless of whether they are Free-to-Play, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    I have not tested the new stuff on LAM since I am not VIP but I guess I will soon find out, thx for the update and suggestions.
    So essentially you can buy anything currently available within that DDO Store for free on Lamannia.

    Shadows don't always spawn you when you are in Stealth and Earth Elementals rarely activate.


    I don't know what I've seen, was it all an illusion? All a mirage gone bad.

    In the screenshot above are the 'Durk's Got a Secret' Oozes and they are like relentless bloodhounds.

    The Oozes (Ochre Jelly) in 'Garl's Tomb' and 'The Troglodytes' Get' are some of the best "trackers" in the game! It's amazing how far they will faithfully travel to reach you. The early ones will go around corridors, climb up stairs continue following on, out of the room, along the passages... their range is crazy. All that time they are "locked on" to your position. They'll likely travel well over a few hundred metres in the hopes of digesting you.

    If the creature was unable to use their True Seeing (which may also be from a cast spell) when they performed movement. You could theoretically move pawns all over the board; it'd be a bit like a faster and easier version of the Noisemaker Traps. Initial mob density, placement, and how they communicate and transfer their built-up aggravation state level onto their nearby allies. Resulting in chainreaction tends to be the main issue in most cases.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 01-17-2020 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Noisemakers.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    snip
    hey thx, I did not know this. Not sure I will do it yet though, will see.

    It seems that your observations on oozes etc means that nothing has really changed?

    I know this will seem crazy but I have used the extended tremor sense of spiders and reapers to pull them away from crowds in order to separate them. Unless it is a chain aggro, it has been to my advantage. I wonder how this will play out.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (4), Naerfelka (21)


  9. #9
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    When entering Lamannia (next time it opens) if you go to the Marketplace you'll be able to find magical door leading to the 'Test Dojo'. If you go to the Test Dojo and talk to NPC Lord Poincelot <Festival Collector>, each time you do so he gives you 10,000 DDO Points. You can only download Lamannia when the download and patch servers are active; so it only will connect and download the data files, when they're about to open the servers - currently its closed.

    Also you can freely 'carbon copy' your Characters from other servers and level Characters to Level 30 in about 5-mins and TR without timer restrictions, etc. They'll also be test DPS Kobolds available in the dojo and some named loot, you can get from NPCs, etc.

    I didn't test Oozes much on Lamannia but they seem to act the same as they currently do on live.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 01-17-2020 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Clarification.

  10. #10
    Community Member Erofen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Tremor sense should not work when your toon is floating above the ground while 1) in PM wraith mode, 2) SD wraith mode, and 3) floating from a jump or fall

    They are nerfing stacking sneak speed which saddens me as that was something for flavor toons only but was insanely fun. Sev had said it was WAI some time ago so the reverse decision baffles me... something HC I suppose

    ...

    There are massive lore issues with the placement of arachnids in the midst of mobs that they should be eating but they are there to block stealthy players, such as in Finding Dorris and Slavers.
    As a fellow sneak enthusiast, I agree completely. How can tremor sense mobs feel the vibrations of my movement when I'm not even touching the ground? It makes no sense.

    Yah this was entirely flavor and was bugged sometimes anyways, but at least the shadowdancer clicky would speed you up. This is a terrible change.

    They just continue to hate the playstyle thinking "oh they can just ignore every mob and get a free completion" which for 95% of the quests is not the case. It requires a much more sensitive gameplay with a lot more opportunities for failure. While I also have some strong opinions on the other changes, those are being harped on to death already and this deserves more attention. Sneak is my favorite playstyle and I hate seeing it get the shaft.

    P.S. Reaper auto spot needs to stop. Give them a bonus to their check or whatever, but a guaranteed fail no matter how high the dc is ridiculous.
    Orien: ~Erofen (30 Assassin Rogue) ~Erofenlock (30 EB Warlock) ~Erofenmonk (30 Light Monk) ~Erofentrap (30 Roguerficer (1st TR/Legend Build ever)) ~Erofenbarb (30 Barb) ~Erofenbless (30 FvS Chest Blesser) ~Erofenthree (30 Bard Dualbox) ~Erofenten (30 Barb Triplebox)
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Um, I'm almost afraid to ask, but exactly just what is 'sneak humping'? Kex! Stop It! O.o

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