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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    This doesn't change the amount of new systems features each year. This just addresses the release cadence. Obviously, we'll still have small patches/hotfixes to address problems regardless of whether Hardcore is mid season or not. We just don't want to purposefully introduce meta shifting changes/new features while hardcore is underway.
    This is good!

    We do have, however, changes "for hardcore season 2" planned. These changes are not being previewed at the moment. These changes (which aren't character build related) will be active only on the hardcore server and not the rest.
    Even better! Thank you for clarifying.

    Given the above... please leave the cargo hold buffs alone on the non-hardcore servers.
    Griglok (main)- Cleric (TRing), Duelcore- Wiz 18/FvS 2, Embezzler- Rogue, Fiergen- Ftr 8/Rgr 6/Mnk 6, Greyhead- monk, Havegun- Ftr 2/Pal 18, Jayberwocky- Ftr 8/Mnk 12, Laciolux- Clr 16/FvS 4, Prototech- Artificer, Rendorc- Barbarian, Seasharp- Bard
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  2. #82
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    To be clear, none of what I said is in contradiction to Sev's clarifying statements.

    We are timing character build changes into pooled updates between hardcore seasons (the goal is a little before the start of a season) instead of during hardcore seasons. Timing of release is the only thing that Hardcore League is factoring into character build systems changes. This is simply a big update where we have pooled the vast majority of systems changes that we've wanted to do for the past 6 months or so. We're doing this now as opposed to piecemeal or during the season because it both allows us to get a good consistent systems update cadence and we want to avoid interrupting a hardcore season midway through with large character build changes. The stretch goal is for a systems update/patch to occur a little before a Hardcore season so that if there is a meta shakeup it hasn't been solved before people get going in the new league. But, again, the meta shakeup was planned to happen regardless of hardcore existing. The part that I was talking about in the notes is the timing of the release in relation to when Hardcore will be running and the fact that we want it all in one big update as opposed to spread around in multiple small patches over the course of months.
    Then perhaps next major update we can leave the words "Hardcore League" out of it, because quite honestly, those threads read like they were specifically catering to HCL - even if you didn't mean it like that. When I'm reading about an update to the game and I can't get two sentences without reading "Hardcore League" or "Season 2" or "Last Season" or "In order to make next season feel more distinct" or "so U45 contains a lot of the balance changes for the season" it really starts reading like "HCL is the only thing we care about now and this update is largely to address things happening there." And since I - and many others - don't play there, we feel a little cheated.

    You may not have meant it like that, but it certainly read like that to me, and judging by the unrest throughout the forums I know I'm not alone.
    Last edited by Clemeit; 01-16-2020 at 04:37 PM.

  3. #83
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karatemack View Post
    This is good!



    Even better! Thank you for clarifying.

    Given the above... please leave the cargo hold buffs alone on the non-hardcore servers.
    And my boarding pass please
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  4. #84
    Community Member Qeistalan's Avatar
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    Angry Rangers sacrified for "The Greater Git Guud"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Worth noting that, just as before when you could not Glancing Blow while moving without the first THF feat, the movement restriction of Strikethrough is only for use without the first THF feat.
    Explain why a Tempest Ranger should be FORCED to take a TWO-HANDED FIGHTING FEAT to effectively use Dance of Death while moving??

    Requiring players to take a completely unrelated feat to use a TIER 5 ENHANCEMENT is absurd.

    What's next: Rage ability will require max ranks in Listen?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    None of the features/changes currently being previewed were created "for hardcore".
    The players disagree, that's obviously not even close to being accurate. This is in response to a badly-designed Inquisitor tree that
    became a meta you aren't willing to SOLELY address to see if that alleviates the issue.

    Average players don't see these numbers, and you're going to completely ruin ranged for the playerbase with a stacking nerf-a-palooza.
    IPS does not magically make Rangers AOE. They have to line up targets, unlike real AOE casters, and hit less targets. A damage plunge
    is totally unwarranted.

    You're burning players to the ground, and trying to tell us the patch will make our ashes smell great.

    The boarding pass is just icing on the cake, and we know why that happened, too.
    Last edited by DRoark; 01-16-2020 at 05:51 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qeistalan View Post
    Explain why a Tempest Ranger should be FORCED to take a TWO-HANDED FIGHTING FEAT to effectively use Dance of Death while moving??

    Requiring players to take a completely unrelated feat to use a TIER 5 ENHANCEMENT is absurd.
    It is currently just so bad. Seriously. Melees are already totally stuffed in content already with a lot of damage such that you need to be constantly moving... now they force you to stand still and take that damage in order to use your big thing that makes you worthwhile dps? It just doesn't work.

    RIP twf rangers RIP a good starting char for someone exploring the game who might have otherwise been catered for on an Asimar scourge.
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  7. #87
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    In 2014, Dance of Death was changed. https://www.ddo.com/en/update-23-release-notes
    Tempest
    • Dance of Death now has a 15 second cooldown. The duration has been increased to 10 seconds.


    Now, 2020, Dance of Death will be changed again? Nerfed to 3 targets, and the cooldown increased? The opposite of 2014? So you're telling me IN SIX YEARS Tempest Rangers have become OVERPOWERED?

    So DoD needed changed in 2014 to make Tempest competitive, to bring it UP to other combat styles. But in 2020, DoD needs changed, to bring it DOWN to make other combat styles better? Now that I've gone and looked this up from 2014, it really shook me. Its the exact same ability, just 6 years apart. I'm at a loss for words! How does this make any sense to anyone?

    EVERY server is FULL of INQUIS. Theres so much lag from all the projectiles. Full groups of Inquis, just devastating any and all content. So you Devs decide that from 2014 to 2020, there must have been some HUGE problem with Tempest? So you ignored this horrible overperforming for 6 years and just now you're gonna "balance" it? Tell me how exactly a change to TWO HANDED combat relates in any way shape or form to an ability that hasn't changed in 6 YEARS, and also uses a completely DIFFERENT combat style?

    I had to share this so others could see. I KNEW I remembered DoD being changed. Now we can all see, Devs are doing the exact opposite of before. 2014 Tempest Ranger NEEDED this DoD boost. 2020 Tempest Ranger needs NERFED. It's a joke. No one talks about trade-offs, heavy armor big PRR 2-handed fighters cleaving toe-to-toe, vs light armor, ranger, DoD'ing in the fray, but squished. The trade offs, the pros and cons, the give and take. Instead, Ranger Tempest HAS to change, because Devs are changing 2-handed fighting? Makes no sense. You're teling me you can't boost one combat style without bringing another down? Rotating what combat style has the limelight, and you call it balance? The balance is the tradeoff's the PLAYERS make. The choices, what to take, what to leave behind.

    Or do you have this whole new Strikethrough system, and in some obsessive compulsive way you gotta make the whole game conform to it? Why, just why?


  8. #88
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qeistalan View Post
    Explain why a Tempest Ranger should be FORCED to take a TWO-HANDED FIGHTING FEAT to effectively use Dance of Death while moving??

    Requiring players to take a completely unrelated feat to use a TIER 5 ENHANCEMENT is absurd.
    Yes, this was a horrible design oversight. At least I hope that's the case, otherwise it's an intentional and unwarranted slap in the face to Tempest Rangers.

    Oh well, guess we gotta nerf Melee cause they're just that good.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    Yes, this was a horrible design oversight. At least I hope that's the case, otherwise it's an intentional and unwarranted slap in the face to Tempest Rangers.

    Oh well, guess we gotta nerf Melee cause they're just that good.
    Melee are definitely overpowered in HCL. I saw melee that could flat out lay down the dips, and if they ever got in trouble they just hit their boarding pass and were whisked away from danger. Kinda like last week when I was grinding R10’s on Sarlona....wait...
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    We are doing that. None of the currently previewed features are meant to be exclusive to Hardcore. None of the features/changes currently being previewed were created "for hardcore".
    So what issue on the live server is caused by the boarding pass working very quickly?

    Because it certainly seems like you just want to remove the "quick escape" function of it for hardcore league.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  11. #91
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    So, as a bow user, I'm curious, when will we see details on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Bows will get an additional exclusive buff to shore up their effectiveness when compared to other ranged options to prevent the style as a whole from experiencing a loss of DPS.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  12. #92
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karatemack View Post

    Given the above... please leave the cargo hold buffs alone on the non-hardcore servers.
    Don't hold your breath!!!
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    In 2014, Dance of Death was changed. https://www.ddo.com/en/update-23-release-notes
    Tempest
    • Dance of Death now has a 15 second cooldown. The duration has been increased to 10 seconds.


    Now, 2020, Dance of Death will be changed again? Nerfed to 3 targets, and the cooldown increased? The opposite of 2014? So you're telling me IN SIX YEARS Tempest Rangers have become OVERPOWERED?

    So DoD needed changed in 2014 to make Tempest competitive, to bring it UP to other combat styles. But in 2020, DoD needs changed, to bring it DOWN to make other combat styles better? Now that I've gone and looked this up from 2014, it really shook me. Its the exact same ability, just 6 years apart. I'm at a loss for words! How does this make any sense to anyone?

    EVERY server is FULL of INQUIS. Theres so much lag from all the projectiles. Full groups of Inquis, just devastating any and all content. So you Devs decide that from 2014 to 2020, there must have been some HUGE problem with Tempest? So you ignored this horrible overperforming for 6 years and just now you're gonna "balance" it? Tell me how exactly a change to TWO HANDED combat relates in any way shape or form to an ability that hasn't changed in 6 YEARS, and also uses a completely DIFFERENT combat style?

    I had to share this so others could see. I KNEW I remembered DoD being changed. Now we can all see, Devs are doing the exact opposite of before. 2014 Tempest Ranger NEEDED this DoD boost. 2020 Tempest Ranger needs NERFED. It's a joke. No one talks about trade-offs, heavy armor big PRR 2-handed fighters cleaving toe-to-toe, vs light armor, ranger, DoD'ing in the fray, but squished. The trade offs, the pros and cons, the give and take. Instead, Ranger Tempest HAS to change, because Devs are changing 2-handed fighting? Makes no sense. You're teling me you can't boost one combat style without bringing another down? Rotating what combat style has the limelight, and you call it balance? The balance is the tradeoff's the PLAYERS make. The choices, what to take, what to leave behind.

    Or do you have this whole new Strikethrough system, and in some obsessive compulsive way you gotta make the whole game conform to it? Why, just why?
    The dev's likely aren't even listening anymore since their not getting the positive affirmation they were seeking. I mean we could get lucky and they decide us mere mortals might be right and their divine person hood wrong but don't count on it. If it's on Lamania then they have already spent the time and money coding it, tossing it out completely would be the senior dev admitting they wasted that time and money. Really big mistake many dev shops make, thinking that once they spent the time and effort on something, they absolutely *must* use that something regardless of its' impact.

    The official word is "they are looking at it", which should scare people as it means they are still going ahead with the intended changes, only they might adjust the parameters instead of droping the change in the first place.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    Oh yeah? Well someone should have chosen their words with a little more care. That, or they were just being honest. I'm going with door #2.
    +1

    I vote #2 as well.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    but that's not what happened at all we just wanted to get feedback from people who had tried the items out in game. I don't know where I've ever implied anything that I've done wrong has been the player's fault, and if I have I sincerely apologize.
    OK, with all sincerity and respect this is why I, for one, as a player see a disconnect.

    If SSG wants to have feedback from people who try out items in game, then leave the Lama servers up for more than a few days in the middle of the week.

    For example: THF changes. Announce what you want to do, listen to some player commentary, and then put up on Lama for a month. Players will test it to death for you, then process the data, repeat as needed, and you have a working product which makes both sides happy.

    The pattern over the decade is that stuff gets developed, we get to (briefly) PREVIEW it in Lama, and then it is released live. Our feedback is mostly ignored and the product is released leading to the inevitable readjustment some time in the future while SSG blindly asserts they had absolutely no idea there was data showing anything wrong.

    This Update should be only: Release the positive additions to the game: Alchemist, bank, quest, stealth upgrades, etc.; and nerf Inquisitive. NOTHING else should have been nerfed/changed. Then do proposed changes to THF, Dance of Death, KOTC, ranged, etc. in sections and actually engage the community in a process where both sides, SSG and the players, work together to see what needs fixing and fix it.

    Also when Lama is up for so short a time, not only are people not able to play with the new content, we can't even get in to look at the new items. Placing them in the thread makes it easier for all to view without having to log in to DDO. Holding the pictures back is a barrier to entry for player feedback.

    And when you guys deny rebalancing some things for HCL it makes me feel just as mistru****l as when you guys deny rebalancing stuff for Reaper.


    Haha, really? the editor blocks out the word 'mis trust ful'? I guess that explains a lot. hahah Please consider the synonym, "suspicious," then.


    TL; dr. We want to help make DDO great working with you guys; however, y'all make a lot of questionable decisions which can lead one to think you don't necessarily share this goal.
    Last edited by Sho-sa; 01-17-2020 at 11:23 AM.

  16. #96
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho-sa View Post
    OK, with all sincerity and respect this is why I, for one, as a player see a disconnect.

    If SSG wants to have feedback from people who try out items in game, then leave the Lama servers up for more than a few days in the middle of the week.

    For example: THF changes. Announce what you want to do, listen to some player commentary, and then put up on Lama for a month. Player will test it to death for you, then process the data, repeat as needed and you have a working product which makes both sides happy.

    The pattern over the decade is that stuff gets developed, we get to PREVIEW it in Lama. Our feedback is mostly ignored and the product is released leading to the inevitable readjustment some time in the future while SSG blindly asserts they had absolutely no idea there was data showing anything wrong.

    This Update should be only: Release the additions to the game: Alchemist, bank, quest, stealth upgrades, etc.; and nerf Inquisitive. Nothing else should have been done. Then do proposed changes to THF, Dance of Death, or ranged as a whole and actually engage the community in a process where both sides, SSG and the players, work together to see what needs fixing and fix it.

    And when you guys deny rebalancing some things for HCL it makes me feel just as mistru****l as when you guys deny rebalancing stuff for Reaper.


    Haha, really? the editor blocks out the word 'mis trust ful'? I guess that explains a lot. hahah Please consider the synonym, "suspicious," then.
    i expect that censor is due to an acronym the word happens to include

    otherwise you're right on point

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    i expect that censor is due to an acronym the word happens to include

    otherwise you're right on point
    Ah, I think now I see what it is thanks to your guidance. Thank you.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho-sa View Post
    OK, with all sincerity and respect this is why I, for one, as a player see a disconnect.

    If SSG wants to have feedback from people who try out items in game, then leave the Lama servers up for more than a few days in the middle of the week.

    For example: THF changes. Announce what you want to do, listen to some player commentary, and then put up on Lama for a month. Players will test it to death for you, then process the data, repeat as needed, and you have a working product which makes both sides happy.

    The pattern over the decade is that stuff gets developed, we get to (briefly) PREVIEW it in Lama, and then it is released live. Our feedback is mostly ignored and the product is released leading to the inevitable readjustment some time in the future while SSG blindly asserts they had absolutely no idea there was data showing anything wrong.

    This Update should be only: Release the positive additions to the game: Alchemist, bank, quest, stealth upgrades, etc.; and nerf Inquisitive. NOTHING else should have been nerfed/changed. Then do proposed changes to THF, Dance of Death, KOTC, ranged, etc. in sections and actually engage the community in a process where both sides, SSG and the players, work together to see what needs fixing and fix it.

    Also when Lama is up for so short a time, not only are people not able to play with the new content, we can't even get in to look at the new items. Placing them in the thread makes it easier for all to view without having to log in to DDO. Holding the pictures back is a barrier to entry for player feedback.

    And when you guys deny rebalancing some things for HCL it makes me feel just as mistru****l as when you guys deny rebalancing stuff for Reaper.


    Haha, really? the editor blocks out the word 'mis trust ful'? I guess that explains a lot. hahah Please consider the synonym, "suspicious," then.


    TL; dr. We want to help make DDO great working with you guys; however, y'all make a lot of questionable decisions which can lead one to think you don't necessarily share this goal.

    What you are asking for conflicts with something called the Software Development Life Cycle (SDLC). Software has four phases it goes through, each with a different set of entrance and exit criteria.

    Development (Dev)
    Quality Assurance (QA)
    User Acceptance Testing (UAT)
    Production Release (Prod)

    Dev is the developers own code writing and prototyping, very unstable with multiple updates in a single day, sometimes in a single hour.

    QA is where the developers code is tested to ensure there are no functional or systemic failures, meaning the code doesn't immediately crash the server, delete your character, or have some other great side effects. This is where you are wanting to get involved at.

    UAT is where the end user community is brought in as "free" beta testers to ensure the production is defeat free, this is where usability and not functionality is tested. This is Lamannia.

    By the time code gets to UAT it's already been finished, the mechanics are done, the functions are written, the changes are made, it's a done deal, they just want to make sure it's "usable" by the target audience. No major changes can happen here without sending the code back to Dev to be prototyped and then re-validated through QA. This is costly in time and it's why Sev and all the Devs get so ****y when we criticize them.

    If we step back and realize they view us as UAT testers, who's job it is to validate the usability of the changes they have already decided, the arrogance they show kinda makes sense. From the point of view of the senior architect, it's not our place to inform them of the directly they should take their product, only to validate and reinforce the changes they have already decided to make. Now if we were on the QA team it's a different story, changes can be rejected as non-functional or damaging to the platform before the Dev's risk losing face. Unfortunately they've committed the really dangerous mistake of having the Dev's handle QA and UAT approval instead of a second entity. Basically the Devs could just reject all QA and UAT feedback and force through their changes. They are a small shop so it's understandable, just dangerous.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qeistalan View Post
    Explain why a Tempest Ranger should be FORCED to take a TWO-HANDED FIGHTING FEAT to effectively use Dance of Death while moving??
    Worth noting that on Lamannia Dance of Death did not actually require THF to be used while moving.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Worth noting that on Lamannia Dance of Death did not actually require THF to be used while moving.
    Lynnabel there are a LOT of changes you are doing... and you only have Lam up for 3 days mid week.

    Right now I'm not working so I have time to get on mid week. But even then there is a LOT to look at.

    Also, it's quite hard to get groups to test the type of content that it would be typical to look at this with to get realistic test scenarios.

    I don't think you're being fair please.

    I want to give feedback. I actually find giving feedback is a lot of work and takes time. Please genuinely help us to help you by giving feedback by giving longer sessions of Lamania time AND over a weekend.
    ~ Crimson Eagles of Khyber ~
    ~ Melicient ~ Melianny ~ Melinator ~ Melizzic ~ Melton ~ Melvanwy ~ Mellant ~ Melangst ~

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