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  1. #1
    Executive Producer Severlin's Avatar
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    Default Some notes about balance changes

    Greetings,

    Thank you for the feedback on our current Lamannia deployment. I wanted to clarify some things and respond to some player feedback.

    There has been some concern by players, based on the wording of some of our notes, that the Hardcore server is prompting us to make balance changes that we otherwise wouldn’t consider. All of our balance changes are aimed at the game as a whole. We do want players playing on the Hardcore server to have consistent play during the season and to be able to adopt strategies that won’t drastically change, and we did mean to say that we plan to target balance changes so they mostly happen between Hardcore seasons. We don’t want balance changes to be driven by Hardcore play.

    For the ranged pass, we have a few additional changes coming. The Archer’s Focus stance will be further reworked to address functionality concerns, and in addition will have a component that further increases its damage. Bows will get an additional exclusive buff to shore up their effectiveness when compared to other ranged options to prevent the style as a whole from experiencing a loss of DPS.

    For the two handed pass, it is not our intention to lower single target damage for two handed styles. We will be working to make sure that doesn’t happen.

    We are also reviewing changes to Dance of Death, and doing more testing to see how it compares to Cleave based builds.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Sev~

  2. #2
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    Thank you for your quarterly visit to the forums. Too bad it takes the place going up in flames for it to happen. As to the rest, we shall see what happens. If history is our guide, I won't get my hopes up.

  3. #3
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Default If I may be so bold...

    Dear Severlin,

    The fact you (SSG) seem to be rolling concerns about Hardcore play into how we play on the non-hardcore servers is concerning.

    The simple fact is it would have been wiser (and more fair) to develop the two games on two different tracks despite the fact it would take more resources to do so.

    If you can't support the two games separately, I'd suggest supporting only one of them. Either that, or balance the game completely around the non-hardcore experience, as I'm reasonably sure that's where the lion's share of your revenue is derived, and don't worry so much about the hardcore game.

    While we're talking about balance issues, perhaps the BIGGEST thing to throw game balance off so terribly wasn't Inquisitive or any other Class, Enhancement tree, or Epic Destiny. What's really thrown the balance off are the rewards for Reaper difficulty and the rewards from all the past lives. In the Ranged Pass thread, there is a post that perfectly illustrates my point. The poster has ALL the past lives and over 115 Reaper points. No wonder the game (even in R10 dungeons) is so easy for them!

    In my humble opinion, address the "OPness" of the rewards for past lives and the rewards for Reaper play and I suspect you'll go a longer way towards balancing the game, as it stands now, rather than destroying people's builds - builds that, in some cases, allow newer players to be somewhat useful when playing with veterans who have accumulated the loot they have and conquered the steep learning curve of DDO and figured out the best ways to optimize their toons.

    Regards,

    JB

    P.S. I get why you might not want to remove the past life rewards. TRing contributes heavily to your revenue stream, I'm sure. Perhaps you could just tone them down a bit?

    Reaper rewards (Reaper points) are a completely different matter, however.
    Last edited by Arkat; 01-15-2020 at 05:07 PM.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown

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    Hi Welcome

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    The fact you (SSG) seem to be rolling concerns about Hardcore play into how we play on the non-hardcore servers is concerning.
    what? you didnt appear to read what he wrote... he said the timing is based on hardcore seasons, not the balance itself. They will be doing balance changes between hardcore seasons

  5. #5
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We don’t want balance changes to be driven by Hardcore play.

    Sev~
    That ship has long since sailed. There's a long history of "fixes" that are in fact, made because of Reaper builds, and unbalanced and
    badly thought out enhancements. The latest round of hammering to ranged, is a direct result of BOTH reaper and the Inquisitor meta.
    They have frequently posted about making things a "challenge for players", which directly addresses hardcore/reaper players, and
    bombing normal players into paste is the result... every... single... time.

    If regular players can plainly see this, why doesn't the design team even notice before it's cripplingly too late?

  6. #6
    Community Member Neo-Masamune's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thank You!

    I love this game! and being an archer with long/shortbows has been a lot of fun all those years! thank you for reconsider some of the changes! being Arcane Archer is by far the most fun class out there!



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  7. #7
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    ...
    For the ranged pass, we have a few additional changes coming. The Archer’s Focus stance will be further reworked to address functionality concerns, and in addition will have a component that further increases its damage. Bows will get an additional exclusive buff to shore up their effectiveness when compared to other ranged options to prevent the style as a whole from experiencing a loss of DPS.

    For the two handed pass, it is not our intention to lower single target damage for two handed styles. We will be working to make sure that doesn’t happen.

    We are also reviewing changes to Dance of Death, and doing more testing to see how it compares to Cleave based builds.

    ...
    Despite all the flames and pitch forks out here, most of us know you're doing the best you can and we think on the balance you do a fine job!

    The quoted text tells me you are on the right track. Keep working it!

    (Also, make sure to implement all my suggestions-they are the bestest!)
    Cilon can be found on Orien.

  8. #8
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    For the two handed pass, it is not our intention to lower single target damage for two handed styles. We will be working to make sure that doesn’t happen.

    Sev~
    You might not realize it, but you’re also hurting melee survivability with the Strikethrough changes as well. Once upon a time, Axer/Shade said “WASD is all the AC I need” and there really is something to that. Movement in combat is DDO’s best feature for me and for a lot of other people, I’m sure. Making the primary benefit of THF not work while moving doesn’t make any more sense than having offhand attacks stop working in TWF while moving.

    There are so many changes here that you seem to think are boosts that are actually nerfs. I get that you’re trying to make the game better. This pass is not making that happen, though.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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  9. #9
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Greetings,
    We don’t want balance changes to be driven by Hardcore play.


    Sev~
    Oh rly?? Is that why my boarding pass has a ridiculous animation attached to it now? Because you don't balance for hardcore play? Where else does it matter if I can teleport out quickly from somewhere no matter the class I play?

    Oh yes btw, I paid you extra for that, you gave me something exceptional, for a time....

    Now you change it because?

    Sorry, I think you are fibbing.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    You might not realize it, but you’re also hurting melee survivability with the Strikethrough changes as well. Once upon a time, Axer/Shade said “WASD is all the AC I need” and there really is something to that. Movement in combat is DDO’s best feature for me and for a lot of other people, I’m sure. Making the primary benefit of THF not work while moving doesn’t make any more sense than having offhand attacks stop working in TWF while moving.

    There are so many changes here that you seem to think are boosts that are actually nerfs. I get that you’re trying to make the game better. This pass is not making that happen, though.
    Worth noting that, just as before when you could not Glancing Blow while moving without the first THF feat, the movement restriction of Strikethrough is only for use without the first THF feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    The Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% Strikethrough Chance. You can now Strikethrough while moving. You also gain a +2 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. For the purpose of this feat, you are considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while using a Two-Handed Melee Weapon (not including Handwraps). You are also considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while wielding a Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe in your main hand and a Shield, Orb, Rune Arm, or Nothing in your off-hand. You are not considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while in Wild Shape."
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  11. #11
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    That ship has long since sailed. There's a long history of "fixes" that are in fact, made because of Reaper builds, and unbalanced and
    badly thought out enhancements. The latest round of hammering to ranged, is a direct result of BOTH reaper and the Inquisitor meta.
    They have frequently posted about making things a "challenge for players", which directly addresses hardcore/reaper players, and
    bombing normal players into paste is the result... every... single... time.

    If regular players can plainly see this, why doesn't the design team even notice before it's cripplingly too late?
    It's sad you can't tell the difference between problems that are *exposed* by the high-stress environment of Hardcore or Reaper, and problems that are CAUSED by Hardcore/Reaper.

    The game being hugely unbalanced and only a few builds being viable is a UNIVERSAL PROBLEM that affects EVERYONE on EVERY difficulty. The gap may be more apparent in high-stress play, but it still *exists* when you're trolloping around in explore zones one-shotting everything and giggling about how badass you are. You only NOTICE it when you try to join a group to do more-difficult content and you realize that your character is completely outclassed and can't even begin to keep up. Then you effectively demand that the devs give you a new kitchen because your fridge has some three-month-old Chinese takeout in the back, and you complain when what THEY want to do is to get rid of the rotting food instead of spending $15,000 replacing the KITCHEN.

    What the devs are trying to do, is to make it so that EVERYONE's characters have the potential to be viable in high-stress combat, and your complaint is that they're taking your automatic easy button away because you might actually have to learn how to play the game? Yeah, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy out of anyone, sorry. The whole point of a game that involves complex character building is *that it involves complex character building*.

  12. #12
    Founder Dark_Lord_Mary's Avatar
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    Default Codex of Ruined Games

    I know SSG uses a financial advisor to help monetize aspects of the game to generate income. The universal tree inquisitive is a good example - if you are going to sell a product to your client base for a year, and build up a buzz about how good that tree is, then alter that product and strip it of its usefulness in a such a way that it no longer functions as the purchaser understood, in any other market that would be a violation of trust and prompt a report to the better business bureau.

    We clients have TOS with SSG that explains we waive all rights, but that does not mean you can just knock us over the head and take our money - we may have no say in what you do with our accounts despite how much money we've spent supporting SSG - we understand that - yet, many of us are aggravated to no end by with random nerfs set to hallucinated dps/performance targets and we who support this game have had enough. We are calling for temperance and reason. Who set these DPS targets? In what realm are they not completely arbitrary? Hardcore league? Who cares - many did not play hardcore and had no interest - If you wish to make a hardcore server with special nerfed gameplay for the fraction of the crowd to play, do it. Leave the regular DDO game alone, do not F with our game to balance for one event. If you do we will find another mmo to play and support financially.

    I will quote to you from the Codex of Ruined Games: section 9, paragraph 1: NERFS KILL MMOs

    Hire a video game history consultant who can inform you guys with charts and graphs, we have seen this many times in video game land.

    These performance and dps targets are hallucinated - you cannot balance an entire game for one event nor one person with 180 past lives and 100 reaper points when you have many players playing on first lives - you must consider new players, non-hardcore players, non-min-maxers grinders with no past lives, who live and die joining groups and raids trying (and failing) to viably play with the 180 past life/100 reaper point min-max crowd.

    I want to be excited about alchemist and deleras and the catacombs but honestly, I am soured by a bunch of game-changing nerfs that should be done on a hardcore only server, not the live servers, that reset the meta and destroy what is enjoyable gameplay for perhaps hundreds if not thousands of SSG clients.
    **Master of the Beyond**

  13. #13
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    ...your complaint is that they're taking your automatic easy button away because you might actually have to learn how to play the game?
    I mentioned myself there, where exactly? Reading is hard, because... like, words.

    Me hitting one button on my caster is "easy mode". Ranged don't deserve a blanket IPS nerf, INQ just needed a little tweak.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    It's sad you can't tell the difference between problems that are *exposed* by the high-stress environment of Hardcore or Reaper, and problems that are CAUSED by Hardcore/Reaper.
    *Spread more reputation*, yadda-yadda.

    Still, QFT (the whole post, really).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    For the ranged pass, we have a few additional changes coming. The Archer’s Focus stance will be further reworked to address functionality concerns, and in addition will have a component that further increases its damage. Bows will get an additional exclusive buff to shore up their effectiveness when compared to other ranged options to prevent the style as a whole from experiencing a loss of DPS.
    Yay!!!

  16. #16
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    Default Sev:

    Sev: Will you please tell us approximately how many times per year SSG plans to activate the HC League? You owe it to your customers to reveal this information. Here is why. Some players plan to take a break from the game the next time it is activated b/c some of the live servers become ghost towns during the event. If you plan to run it multiple times per year, that could impact peoples' decisions regarding subscriptions, one way or the other.

    Thank you in advance. Love the game, but don't understand some of the decision making.

  17. #17
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Worth noting that, just as before when you could not Glancing Blow while moving without the first THF feat, the movement restriction of Strikethrough is only for use without the first THF feat.
    That’s a relief. That means it’s only Dance of Death that is stuck with not moving.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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  18. #18
    Static Guy Xgemina's Avatar
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    I want to be clear, there are things in U45 that are awesome:
    The bank UI changes are fantastic
    The Alchemist looks interesting
    Epic Deleras and Catacombs

    Not so awesome:
    Removal of QoL, plat purchasable amenities in the cargo hold: ie the bank, auction house, mailbox and XP shrine. This is especially annoying since the hold room equivalents are all shard purchases and you have to the room to put them in. (Yes, Lynn has said that this was a mistake with the bank, auction house and mailbox, but we've heard that same story about being able to pass feathers being in a chest.)
    IPS nerf
    Dance of Death nerf
    New long animation on Boarding Pass.

    And I just have to say, Sev, your argument that none of this was balanced against Hardcore league rings bogus with the Boarding Pass change. There is none, zero, zip reasons to change the Boarding Pass except to remove it as the quick escape from a quest...and it's only used that way on Hardcore since that's the only place where dying is meaningful in DDO.
    Per Cocomajobo - Ranged has easy access to AOE - apparently 3 feats, BAB 11 and Dex 19 is considered easy access these days. post here

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  19. #19
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    I have the distinct image of us forumites arguing over stuff and Daddy Severlin coming into the room with his hands on his hips saying "Knock it off!"
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  20. #20
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    You might not realize it, but you’re also hurting melee survivability with the Strikethrough changes as well. Once upon a time, Axer/Shade said “WASD is all the AC I need” and there really is something to that. Movement in combat is DDO’s best feature for me and for a lot of other people, I’m sure. Making the primary benefit of THF not work while moving doesn’t make any more sense than having offhand attacks stop working in TWF while moving.

    There are so many changes here that you seem to think are boosts that are actually nerfs. I get that you’re trying to make the game better. This pass is not making that happen, though.
    now that's a name i've not heard in a long time

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