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  1. #1
    Community Member Krumm's Avatar
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    Unhappy upcoming U45 is making me loose my will to play...

    I been playing DDO for many years...

    Lately, it's been getting harder and harder to grind out the past lives and run raids at cap (in between lives)...


    Logically, I know Inquisitive builds are OP.
    I know because I tried every build combo during my last 12+ racial/epic lives or so.

    But upcoming nerf on Inquisitives is a real downer as I quite enjoyed playing inquisitive builds.
    Inquisitives got hit big and while I have some ideas still left (finally try the zombie inquisitive idea?) it's still a big downer.

    Also, epic quests and items at levels 23/27 is frankly as uninteresting as it gets.

    For me at least, I level so fast that I swap a set of crafted items at level 20/26/29.
    More epic items bound to account is pretty useless for me.
    While more quests to run during leveling is nice, no new legendary gears to loot is a pretty big let down.
    I wish SSG would of made at least one of the packs legendary...

    I am 7 racial lives from completing my past lives (+ alchemist lives when they come out) but frankly I am loosing the will to continue.


    I've taken many breaks from DDO... perhaps it's time.
    Maybe DDO will look better in 6 months or so...


    Rohden of Khyber

  2. #2
    Community Member Inanout's Avatar
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    You are not the only one.

    Messing with IPS is unneeded. They could just lower ranged power affects and mess with the Inq tree more.

    Gutting devil assault In my opinion was overkill.

    I do not spend $30000 a year mind you but still was spending on 6 accounts.

    I do have a caster with dc's in the 130's but like running my rogue solo many times.

    I guess I do not play the right way.

    On the positive side, instead of logging in daily I play maybe 4 hours a week now and have saved some money.

    A friend sent me a heroic and epic otto's box and I am reluctant to use as I may be uninstalling and returning the boxes as not to waste their hard earned money.

    I see amazon is getting into the game scene. They put customers first and I may look into their product.
    Protect the Silver Flame at all costs!

  3. #3
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    You say Inq. are over powered but your upset they are nerfing them.

    sorry - no sympathy

    Your crying like the kids who get upset when an exploit they are using gets closed.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  4. #4
    Community Member dragons1ayer74's Avatar
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    "Enrollment cancelled successfully"

    For the 1st time in a long while I have just withdrawn my subscription.

    I was so looking forward to U45 and the new Alchemist along with some new long overdue buffs for melee and now the U45 looms it has more nerfs than any other update that I can remember.

    In U45 there is just so much that I don't like:
    -Bad Stealth movement changes
    -Bad 2HF Melee Changes (Net 0 to Net Negative Changes...why???)
    -Bad Dance with Death Changes (I don't even have a single character with this)
    -Bad ties to balance around hardcore
    -Bad Tank realignment (Net 0 to Net Negative Changes...why??? and I don't even have a single character with this)
    -Bad Ranged Changes with IPS
    -Bad Inquisitive Changes
    -Bad Ship Buff Changes

    The good news is U45 is not yet live so there is still some modest hope. If SSG changes U45 before live to something much more appealing and less nerf I will reup my subscription.

  5. #5
    Community Member Inanout's Avatar
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    IPS affects more than INQ. I could care less about INQ.
    Really INQ was another mistake they made.

    Lets watch the population numbers over then next couple of months and we will see if they made the right choice.
    Protect the Silver Flame at all costs!

  6. #6
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    The population will not change ... at all.

    Every time they make a big change or add something new...
    same doom sayers.

    The game will die.
    Everyone is going to leave.
    I am leaving right now.

    and.....nothing happens.

    Where you going to go?
    NWO ? If that was your style, you would already be there.

    Doom Saying does NOTHING.

    Instead, try making suggestions.
    Try the stuff on LAM and give feedback

    Stop crying.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragons1ayer74 View Post
    -Bad Stealth movement changes
    Stealth is already a nonviable playstyle so meh

    -Bad 2HF Melee Changes (Net 0 to Net Negative Changes...why???)
    I actually like the 2HF changes, strikethough will be a lot more useful in endgame, especially high skull legendary content, though it is a nerf for elite/low skull heroics, I think a small buff to cleaves would be good to cancel this out
    -Bad Dance with Death Changes (I don't even have a single character with this)
    complete agreement, moving DoD to strikethough is fine for consistency, but reducing it's max targets AND increasing it's cooldown is just super awful, especially when they haven't fixed the first attack missing resulting in the entire ability not working, which will feel even worse now that it's on a longer cooldown
    -Bad ties to balance around hardcore
    agree, HC has been an utter disaster for balance and the overall health of the game but it made SSG some quick cash through whales buying their way to cap.
    -Bad Tank realignment (Net 0 to Net Negative Changes...why??? and I don't even have a single character with this)
    No opinions on this, haven't ran my tank in a year
    -Bad Ranged Changes with IPS
    While a minor nerf to Gxbow was expected (rapid reload nerf), the massive nerf to ranged as a whole via IPS was completely excessive, especially when Bows are in such a bad state and they get what? 10% alacrity in DWS to compensate, that's nothing. if IPS had to be nerfed it (which I'm not certian about) shouldn't have been done until after a proper Bow pass was done.
    -Bad Inquisitive Changes
    Inquisitive changes are perfectly reasonable, 66% doubleshot, reduced scaling on law dice, and 2 less lawdice in the tree are perfectly reasonable, optimized inquisitive builds will still be A tier DPS, but you won't be able to slap on a ratcatcher and outdps everything with just 41 points in inquisitive regardless of your class split. I actually applaud SSG for being so reasonable and not gutting Inquisitive like they did warlocks and monks.
    -Bad Ship Buff Changes
    30 resist shrines needed to go, they were horribly imbalanced and make tons of gear and abilities obsolete in heroics, would have prefered they waited to do this together with a proper airship overhaul though.
    My takes on the issues you brought up.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    The population will not change ... at all.

    Every time they make a big change or add something new...
    same doom sayers.

    The game will die.
    Everyone is going to leave.
    I am leaving right now.

    and.....nothing happens.

    Where you going to go?
    NWO ? If that was your style, you would already be there.

    Doom Saying does NOTHING.

    Instead, try making suggestions.
    Try the stuff on LAM and give feedback

    Stop crying.
    Take your own advice and stop crying just because people don't like changes, people have been making suggestions. These aren't "one big change that kill the game" it's a death of a thousand cuts situation.

    Population numbers have been steadily declining for years, there are not a lot of new players joining (or staying for more than a month) even if each of these changes only drive away a few dozen long time players, when you have less than 10k total players and aren't getting new ones every lost player counts.

  9. #9
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    I expected crossbow RoF to take a hit and law damage to get a shave and a haircut, but nerfing IPS hits all ranged builds - the majority of which were not overperforming like the outlier.

    Its not the Inquis I feel the most sorry for. People this hits in the middle of a TR will still get through it. Yeah they did pay for X and get X-Y, but anyone who rolled up a more flavor-build oriented ranged toon, like an AA for doing paralyze CC in reaper already isnt high DPS and they just took a 20% hit flat rate off the top simply due to being able to hit multiple targets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    The population will not change ... at all.
    New World closed beta drops in April. I'll be there for at least a month checking things out. I'll probably still log into DDO for raid nights during that time, but there's a good chance I could be gone gone in the near future. I can't imagine that I'm the only DDO player that's going to try that game out.

    I still play DDO because there's nothing better at the moment, but I did cancel my sub last month.
    Stratis on Khyber

    Want to know my build?
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  11. #11
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragons1ayer74 View Post
    -Bad 2HF Melee Changes (Net 0 to Net Negative Changes...why???)
    -Bad Dance with Death Changes (I don't even have a single character with this)
    it's really startling and concerning how THF changes were explicitly sold as a buff by the devs in the Inq thread, and literally the first reply to the preview (fairly!) asked if it was a nerf

    whether the changes turn out to be good bad or indifferent, the gulf between how devs expect players to assess information and how they actually do is demonstrably vast, and i feel like that should be a much bigger concern on both sides

  12. #12
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I expected crossbow RoF to take a hit and law damage to get a shave and a haircut, but nerfing IPS hits all ranged builds - the majority of which were not overperforming like the outlier.

    Its not the Inquis I feel the most sorry for. People this hits in the middle of a TR will still get through it. Yeah they did pay for X and get X-Y, but anyone who rolled up a more flavor-build oriented ranged toon, like an AA for doing paralyze CC in reaper already isnt high DPS and they just took a 20% hit flat rate off the top simply due to being able to hit multiple targets.
    this is another thing that's really concerning. there were plenty of posts saying 'please don't nerf IPS, you don't have to go after ranged to get Inq', and yet here we are

  13. #13
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    Yeah I agree...

    I was super stoked going into the release. Even though I knew Inqui was on the chopping block, there was KotC, and THF, and new quests and items, and even some Stealth improvements!

    And then we saw the Release Notes...

    Inqui wasnt nerfed as hard as it could be...but then every other ranged build got nerfed along with them. And then the devs were like "oh yeah but some builds didnt get nerfed quite as hard as others so you should be happy"

    Which, OK, they think that ranged is invalidating melee builds. I disagree, but I can understand how that's a logically consistent position...

    But then they go and nerf THF too, instead of improving it like they were supposed to. Turn it into a 2 enemy stance and then call that "AOE". And throw Tempest into the woodchipper while they're at it just for good measure, because...they want to improve melee relative to ranged? Oh lets screw up tanking too, because melee might still be useful there.

    And KotC, where Paladin really needs the help, got...basically nothing. I'm not excited about any of those changes. Deck chairs on the Titanic, most of it - unless you want to play a Bow Pal, but rofl jk cause bows suck even more now and we admit it but we're not going to do anything. But no significant improvement to their DPS in their DPS tree. Just the same smattering of whoop-de-**** Light damage they already had, and getting incorporated into the Favored Weapon system that still does effectively nothing worthwhile except for FvS wis/cha-to-combat. And again, nerf their T5 megacleave, the only good thing they had going for them, with a hugely increased CD, just because no one gets to have anything nice in U45.

    And then there's Alch. I wasnt super excited about the playstyle, but then I saw their trees and spellbook and its like hey ok lets just give them literally everything anyone ever wants in a build, plus a couple new things that only they can get, and its all OK because they cant use armor. You want an evading ranged build with Heal and INT to everything and AOE helpless CC and every debuff cure and huge poison damage on hit and a butt-ton of useful class skills and just about every buff in the game plus a few new ones? Sure, you can get it all by level 12, and have some bonus feats too! Yet somehow...its still super unfun to actually play an Alch, way too button-mashey and it feels like you have to manage your Reactions rather than you get to. Also half the time your bottles dont hit even on self-cast, because targeting and DDO.

    So basically I came in super jazzed about everything, and everything has disappointed me because its either half-baked, totally lackluster, or its a net nerf (even if its supposed to be a buff).

    The only winners in U45 right now are SWF and casters, simply because they were just left alone.

    I swear if the mobs had their own forum, they'd be cheering this patch so hard.

  14. #14
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    My takes on the issues you brought up.
    With less law damage AND slower rate of fire AMD slower reload AND -33% double shot, you’re looking at about a 50% DPS reduction altogether.

    Inquisitive won’t be a total gimp, but it will take be top tier DPS by any stretch.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    With less law damage AND slower rate of fire AMD slower reload AND -33% double shot, you’re looking at about a 50% DPS reduction altogether.

    Inquisitive won’t be a total gimp, but it will take be top tier DPS by any stretch.
    Eh - turns out the RR change doesnt actually have any meaningful effect in practice on DXB animations, and the IPS nerf doesnt affect Law or Imbue or Sneak damage. No way they're losing half their total damage. You did forget the Ratcatcher nerf too though.

    Ironically, Inqui might come out of the Inqui nerf the least scathed of all ranged builds...

    Plus you have to reconsider what "top tier DPS" actually is when builds like Tempest are getting nerfed too.

  16. #16
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Some of the changes were necessary, some were overdone, and some were just blatantly out of touch with the state of the game.

    If you're really that bummed out, best thing you can do is let your wallet take a break.
    Population report: December 2019, January 2020

  17. #17
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Default Hopefully...

    Good times.


    We will experience more of these play styles we longed for a long time, represented on live and hopefully more team work involved aswell.

    Let the awfull age of ranged/caster uber heroes, die allready. Each style should have its own strengths and weakneses. Each style should require sacrifices to achieve certain goals.

    About stealth, rogues and related class/multiclass builds should be able to achieve some other mechanic to blurr away instead of full stealth and imitate Improved feint style (not shiv) with faster cooldown at least.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-vgrCICAf0
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  18. #18
    Hero
    Reaperbait
    LOOON375's Avatar
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    Meh
    This is still the best game out there.
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  19. #19
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The only winners in U45 right now are SWF and casters, simply because they were just left alone.
    This. When you feel like you won because you were left alone, that sums up this update perfectly.

    How out of touch are the Devs if even one customer thinks this about their play experience?

    This was a HUGE undertaking, everyone working on systems, animation, designs, etc. This on Lammania is the culmination of months and months of work of teams of dedicated professionals. Huge ideas, massive rebalancings, re-imaginings of the core of the game, AND IT'S ALREADY ON LAMANNIA.

    We could have had discussion when all this was just words, when it was just ideas being bounced around. We could have had consensus, give and take, player feedback! Reflection, adjustments, re-thinking. But no. We don't even get a warning. It's on Lam, it's going to live.

    If I do change games like others have posted about, I'm not going alone. I'll talk with my friends in game, and we will move as a group. When the Devs can't answer basic questions, such as: "Why would anyone play this class now? What makes this unique?" etc, I start thinking why waste my entertainment time/money when the game can change so suddenly underneath my feat, and my feedback is always shrugged off or the classic, Sorry! too late to make changes! excuse.

    I like the people that play DDO. I don't like DDO so much anymore. Weird updates like this one aren't helping.


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Yeah I agree...

    I was super stoked going into the release. Even though I knew Inqui was on the chopping block, there was KotC, and THF, and new quests and items, and even some Stealth improvements!

    And then we saw the Release Notes...

    Inqui wasnt nerfed as hard as it could be...but then every other ranged build got nerfed along with them. And then the devs were like "oh yeah but some builds didnt get nerfed quite as hard as others so you should be happy"

    Which, OK, they think that ranged is invalidating melee builds. I disagree, but I can understand how that's a logically consistent position...

    But then they go and nerf THF too, instead of improving it like they were supposed to. Turn it into a 2 enemy stance and then call that "AOE". And throw Tempest into the woodchipper while they're at it just for good measure, because...they want to improve melee relative to ranged? Oh lets screw up tanking too, because melee might still be useful there.

    And KotC, where Paladin really needs the help, got...basically nothing. I'm not excited about any of those changes. Deck chairs on the Titanic, most of it - unless you want to play a Bow Pal, but rofl jk cause bows suck even more now and we admit it but we're not going to do anything. But no significant improvement to their DPS in their DPS tree. Just the same smattering of whoop-de-**** Light damage they already had, and getting incorporated into the Favored Weapon system that still does effectively nothing worthwhile except for FvS wis/cha-to-combat. And again, nerf their T5 megacleave, the only good thing they had going for them, with a hugely increased CD, just because no one gets to have anything nice in U45.

    And then there's Alch. I wasnt super excited about the playstyle, but then I saw their trees and spellbook and its like hey ok lets just give them literally everything anyone ever wants in a build, plus a couple new things that only they can get, and its all OK because they cant use armor. You want an evading ranged build with Heal and INT to everything and AOE helpless CC and every debuff cure and huge poison damage on hit and a butt-ton of useful class skills and just about every buff in the game plus a few new ones? Sure, you can get it all by level 12, and have some bonus feats too! Yet somehow...its still super unfun to actually play an Alch, way too button-mashey and it feels like you have to manage your Reactions rather than you get to. Also half the time your bottles dont hit even on self-cast, because targeting and DDO.

    So basically I came in super jazzed about everything, and everything has disappointed me because its either half-baked, totally lackluster, or its a net nerf (even if its supposed to be a buff).

    The only winners in U45 right now are SWF and casters, simply because they were just left alone.

    I swear if the mobs had their own forum, they'd be cheering this patch so hard.
    Have you and the other people complaining here actually teated the changes though? E.g. THF changes seem like a noticable buff for most parts of the game to me, esp. end game. Note that you now get strikethrough on all attacks regardless of movement the way I read it. The only thing missing is some low level cc stop gap solution for dire charge. The new charge looks very fun though. Also, cleaves should all doublestrike, and maybe strikethrough.

    KotC looks potentially too strong even, at least against undead. Sum upp all sources of dmg/mp/prr including spells and its significant. Maybe even on par with kensai in sustained dps, and paladin is much more survivable.

    Basically, more testing less drama.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 01-15-2020 at 05:53 PM.

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