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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadB123 View Post
    Not if they add Divine Presence to Divine Might. It would not be a DPS loss.
    Yes it will, just not as much of one and for absolutely no reason.

    Why are you trying to make a melee DPS build around a caster stat? That's like people asking SSG to let Barbarians use INT for hit/damage.

    If you really want Charisma to Hit/Damage just play FVS, Bard or use PDK. PDK will at least let you choose mauls as your weapon.

    It makes no sense to ask for a nerf to an already weaker class just so you can cosplay your flavor build.

  2. #142
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    So thinking about it for a second, I now know why you guys want a built in Charisma as a stat, you want to leverage it for ranged DPS on an Inquisitive build. Charisma to hit and damage with dual crossbows means you can focus play exactly like Assimar Inquisitive do now without having to take the Assimar race and thus can burn through your racial PL's that way. You guys see all the ranged options they are adding and figure you might be able to squeeze it in, provided you didn't have to use Strength as your damage stat. Intelligence and Wisdom are useless to a Paladin so there goes Harper and Falconry for a stat swap.

    Even nerfed Inquisitive is still the strongest ranged DPS class, so there ya go.
    Last edited by palladin9479; 01-23-2020 at 12:18 PM.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    Something I noticed was that the Holy Combatant line of enhancements are very weak compared to their counterparts in other class's. It's +1/1/1/1/2 for a total of +6 damage.

    Fighter Kensei, which is a similar type of weapon exclusive enhancement is +1/2/2/2/3 for a total of +10 damage.

    The Holy Combatant line should be upgraded to be in line with those Kensei bonus's as they fundamentally are the same thing, weapon group exclusive bonus's.
    Not to mention the Kensei version also takes into account two-handed weapons and hands them a slightly higher bonus that this line totally doesn't.

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    Something I noticed was that the Holy Combatant line of enhancements are very weak compared to their counterparts in other class's. It's +1/1/1/1/2 for a total of +6 damage.

    Fighter Kensei, which is a similar type of weapon exclusive enhancement is +1/2/2/2/3 for a total of +10 damage.
    If you're using a Favored Weapon, that line grants +1/1/2/2/4. Which is a total of +10.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If you're using a Favored Weapon, that line grants +1/1/2/2/4. Which is a total of +10.
    I'd still like something more for two-handed weapons. (Kensei gives +1/3/2/4/3 to those after all)
    +In the end, it would only apply to mauls, greatswords and quarterstaves.

    If I may add this: could heavy shields somehow be counted as Favored Weapons for Paladins? Using two-handed swords is about as iconic as using a sword and shield, after all.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If you're using a Favored Weapon, that line grants +1/1/2/2/4. Which is a total of +10.
    Can we get a knights training for 2hrs? Unless you put some really absurd abilities on the other 2h weapons Falcions and muals with silvanus are way better than any other offering.

    Ps do the right thing and make strike through not suck. 50% base +50% per feat and works with special attacks.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If you're using a Favored Weapon, that line grants +1/1/2/2/4. Which is a total of +10.
    Then the wording at the beginning of the post is off as that was what I was going with.

    Extra Turning: Removed, added to Tier 4.
    Replaced With: Holy Combatant: +1 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons.

    Improved Turning: Removed, added to Tier 4.
    Replaced With: Adept Combatant: +1 to hit and damage with all weapons. Longswords, Battle Axes, Heavy Maces, Morningstars, and War Hammers are considered as favored Weapons regardless of your religion.

    Improved Restoration: Removed, added to Core 3
    Replaced With: Holy Combatant: +2 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons. Greatswords are considered as favored Weapons regardless of your religion.

    Passion: Removed, added to Divine Sacrifice.
    Replaced With: Knight's Training: +1 to hit and damage with all weapons and +1 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons. You gain the Knight's Training feat.

    Sealed Life: Removed, added to Core 4.
    Replaced With: Ascendant Training: +2 to hit and damage with all weapons. An additional +2 to hit and damage with Favored Weapons. Whenever you attack an undead or evil outsider with a Favored Weapon, you gain a stack of Blessed Purpose: +3 Sacred Bonus to Melee and Ranged Power that lasts for 6 seconds. You can acquire up to 15 stacks by continuing to attack Undead or Evil Outsiders. Switching to a non-Favored Weapon will reset your stacks.
    That looks like +1/1/2/1/2

    Though that last two are worded kinda weirdly so I think they are additive.

    So maybe
    +1/1/2/(1+1)/(2+2)

    Which is really good since any divine melee's should be using their deities favored weapon. Still the level 6 feats are horribly unbalanced with Maul being god tier and most of the rest being kinda trashy. Long swords is kinda useful to remove death stacks once every 10m, Warhammer is too short or too weak for a 10 min cooldown, Greatsword similar and race restricted to boot. Everything else is dumpster fire worthy.

    Honestly certain weapon types winning the "gear and feat lottery" has been a balance issue for a long time. That's probably a bigger update to fix though.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If you're using a Favored Weapon, that line grants +1/1/2/2/4. Which is a total of +10.
    Favored Weapon changes are nice it's just no where near enough, it's one thing to gimp a cleric who can heal an entire party, it's totally different to gimp a DPS Paladin.

    There must be something you all have up your sleeves that didn't make the first cut do to a misconception of what is and is not overpowered, hence your passed misses after all we all miss from time to time but, you miss 100% of the shoots you don't take.

    Before your throw in the towel, how bout one last haymaker if it connects with the people you've won them over and the belt is yours.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    Favored Weapon changes are nice it's just no where near enough, it's one thing to gimp a cleric who can heal an entire party, it's totally different to gimp a DPS Paladin.

    There must be something you all have up your sleeves that didn't make the first cut do to a misconception of what is and is not overpowered, hence your passed misses after all we all miss from time to time but, you miss 100% of the shoots you don't take.

    Before your throw in the towel, how bout one last haymaker if it connects with the people you've won them over and the belt is yours.
    I'm not trying to be contentious, but I think you need to look closer at the changes to KotC. There's actually some solid buffs in there including extra Melee Power and improved Light Damage from cores, and a very powerful Blitz-style buff for use in the right circumstances. Don't forget the potential changes in the spells too.

    My previous feedback post still applies though, it still needs a little polish and work, but its definitely headed in the right direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If you're using a Favored Weapon, that line grants +1/1/2/2/4. Which is a total of +10.

    Second thing, any chance we can have the light damage dice increased? I showed the math on the other page but basically 7D6 is such a small number, even at 200% Melee Power, that it's not even worth discussing at level cap. The 200% melee power boosting is find and should allow the damage to scale as time goes on, the issue is the low number of nice and the small size of dice. In comparison EK gets 11D12's (more actually with enhancements) that get boosted by spell power which reaches 4~5x the level melee power does. A paladin might get around 200 or so melee power at cap, a EK Wizard will have 800~1000 spell power in comparison. Boosting Paladin's dice to either have more dice or bigger dice should make it sufficient to make up for being behind all the other DPS's damage ceiling.

    At 200 Melee Power the multiple is 1 + 2(200/100) or 5.

    11D12 produce an average damage of
    11 * 6.5 = 71.5

    Multiply them together and it's 357.5, or about what Glancing Blows used to do.

    Can get more conservative by dialing the dice down to D8's or keep the D12's and bring it down to 8 dice. Generally we want the average to be past 200 to even register when our average damage including crits is over 1,000 per swing and others are doing 1,400 to 2,000 per swing.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    I'm not trying to be contentious, but I think you need to look closer at the changes to KotC. There's actually some solid buffs in there including extra Melee Power and improved Light Damage from cores, and a very powerful Blitz-style buff for use in the right circumstances. Don't forget the potential changes in the spells too.

    My previous feedback post still applies though, it still needs a little polish and work, but its definitely headed in the right direction.
    No worries m8, I'm aware of improved Melee Power and Light Damage, spells, Etc. When we tested Pally dps kobold and ko-boss times were woefully behind monk, rog, wolf, sorc. KOTC is 1/3 the dps of the meta. In-fact barely better than warpriest that can heal a whole party. So yea it's not going to get me or anyone I know who plays paladin excited to spend money on DDO.
    Last edited by Zites; 01-23-2020 at 07:54 PM.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    No worries m8, I'm aware of improved Melee Power and Light Damage, spells, Etc. When we tested Pally dps kobold and ko-boss times were woefully behind monk, rog, wolf, sorc. KOTC is 1/3 the dps of the meta. In-fact barely better than warpriest that can heal a whole party. So yea it's not going to get me or anyone I know who plays paladin excited to spend money on DDO.
    Were you using a THF Paladin perchance?

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    Yes it will, just not as much of one and for absolutely no reason.

    Why are you trying to make a melee DPS build around a caster stat? That's like people asking SSG to let Barbarians use INT for hit/damage.
    Why, you can already use INT to hit/dmg for your barbarian IF you wish to do so. Thats the point. Why not let ppl use the most paladin of stats, charisma, as their main and push the STR for 2nd (or 3rd)?

    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    If you really want Charisma to Hit/Damage just play FVS, Bard or use PDK. PDK will at least let you choose mauls as your weapon.
    But i want to play a paladin. Sure i can play PDK and use CHA but quite many ppl dont like to play PDK for obvious reasons (lol). And besides the PDK cha to hit/dmg forces you to use either a long/short/bastard- or greatsword.

    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    It makes no sense to ask for a nerf to an already weaker class just so you can cosplay your flavor build.
    Not asking a NERF, asking for a choise. There is a big difference, imo.
    Divine might should be the same like in the FvS tree. Tier 1 and multiple choises, etc.

    The CHA for dmg and hit could be implemented in either 1 of the cores as an additional or as its own choise in the enh tree. In what way does that prevent using STR, i have no idea?

    Anyways, the melee classes are quite a mess now and reading through the "glancing blow/strikethrough thread" doesnt want me to make a 2H wielding paladin, but drives me even further away towards the pew pew ranged OP:ness.

    We need buffs for melee, not any kind of nerfs, especially for paladins.

  14. #154
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    Not asking a NERF, asking for a choise. There is a big difference, imo.
    Yes you are, your just too stubborn to realize it.

    Divine Might was only one reason why CHA is bad as a DPS stat for Paladin. Unless your gearing with Crossbows the tetris works out far better for STR then for CHA.

    We need buffs for melee, not any kind of nerfs, especially for paladins.
    Then you are the last person to give suggestions as all you've suggested is a nerf so you can cosplay.

    And you realize the INT barb was a joke, someone in my build actually did that one day to mess around and it was terribad. Going STR was cheaper AP wise and resulted in much higher damage potential.

    Again no reason for the Devs to waste their time letting you cosplay.

    And we know it's cosplay because of how you reacted to PDK, which is a race not a class.

    Now back to more important stuff, any words on upping the light damage dice?

  15. #155

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    Apologies for taking a while to get to this thread; I can't fix bugs/implement feedback changes and write long posts at the same time, & needed to get stuff ready for Lamannia Round 2 (coming soon!).
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    My initial sweep on the changes from a pure Level 20 THF Paladin:
    - Add Strikethrough Chance to character sheet
    - Remove Glancing Blow References
    These will be fixed in Round 2 of Lamannia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Old Bugs:
    - Please clarify the text of Slayer of Evil "now grants +?? To Attack Evil Creatures" - Is this just Attack or is it Damage as well? Is this supposed to be Evil Creatures in total or Evil Outsiders and Undead?
    - Should Courage of Heaven bonus to Attack also be adding a Damage bonus as well?
    - Please clarify the text of Champion of Good - "The bonuses granted by Courage are increased by an additional +2". Which bonuses?
    - It only states Attack, and grants Attack. It is against Evil creatures in total. +1 to Attack vs. Evil Creatures.
    - No, it's not meant to add Damage.
    - Champion of Good's bonus you are referencing is the Aura-based bonuses vs. Fear and Enchantment. I'll update that text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    New Bugs
    - Divine Might states it is now SP based. In testing, it continues to consume Turn Undead charges. What's supposed to be up here?
    - Exalted Cleave states old rank 1 damage bonus of +1(W) when taken
    - Avenging Cleave states old rank 1 damage bonus of +1(W) when taken
    - Exalted Smite does not grant the temporary Melee Power boost that is supposed to come from the rolled in Empowered Smite
    - Censure Demons has a pre-requisite of Divine Sacrifice
    - Censure Outsiders has no pre-requisite, and should have Censure Demons as a pre-requisite?
    - Ascendant Training is currently named Sacred Shield
    - Ascendant Training has a Pre-requisite of Knight's training, but none of the other Combatant enhancements have any pre-requisites. Is this intentional?
    These should all be fixed in Lamannia Round 2, except the note about Censure Outsiders. We intentionally didn't link those in case someone wanted the passive Melee Power without taking Censure Demons. Divine Might should be entirely SP based, but was still also tracking TU charges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    - Knight's Training has confusing wording around the Attack and Damage bonuses to all enemies and favoured enemies - do they stack when attacking with a favoured weapon?
    - Therefore, does the full line Combatant line thus grant +4/+4 Attack/Damage with non-Favoured Weapons and a stacking +6/+6 Attack/Damage with Favoured Weapons?
    This is correct. The Favored Weapons bonuses here stack with the All Weapons bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    I love the changes to favored weapons and the addition of new ones. Any chance we'll see some ways to get throwing weapons as favored weapons too?
    Not in this Update, but maybe in the future. We're going to see where the Throwing environment lands after this Update.

    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Healing amplification t4, t5 does not seem to work, at least do not display on the charsheet.
    Fixed for Lamannia Round 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Holy Retribution Ranged: does not recharge a smite evil.
    We're looking into this, it might not make Lamannia Round 2 but we hope to have a fix in for Live release.

    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaSword View Post
    Are there ever going to be any updates or feats that will make Khopeshes great again?
    Khopeshes never stopped being good.

    Quote Originally Posted by korgzz_bloodaxe View Post
    Could we get greataxe added as a favoured weapon to one of the higher tier enhancements? I liked playing as a Dwarf Paladin KotC who used a greataxe back in the day. It would be great if that was viable once again.
    Not in this Update, but we may find somewhere someday for Greataxe as a Favored Weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgrave View Post
    Holy Retribution: No longer takes Turn Undead charges. Now only 1 Rank. "Melee Channel Divinity: Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. " (30 second cooldown.) WHY? IF YOU HAVE TO WAIT 30 SECOND COOLDOWN NO ONE WILL USE IT
    So, here's the thing with Holy Retribution. The current ability reads: "Melee Channel Divinity: Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. On Damage: Evil creatures may be forced to make a Will save (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses) or be destroyed. Evil creatures with under 1000 HP must always make this save or die.Evil creatures with between 5000 and 1000 HP have a 50% chance to be forced to make this save or die. Evil creatures with more than 5000 HP have a 33% chance to be forced to make this save or die."

    When it has a viable DC (as it does in U45), and lowered health restrictions (as it does in U45), it more or less becomes "Assassinate, but a Cleave". It can kill up to 25 targets at a time (more on the ranged version, but that's less likely to be pulled off). Even at 30 seconds, it's very strong, possibly too strong. We can shoot for a lower cooldown if that's what people want, but we're definitely going to bring its power down if we do, either through reducing the number of targets or the likelihood that they're forced to make the save.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    KotC / Paladin pass suggestions

    Bugs found
    * Healing Hands - On my character with a wisdom bonus of 21 and 350 healing amplification this is healing for 945 = 4.5 * 21 * 10. The correct amount should be 4.5 * 21 * 30 = 2835.
    NOTE: On live my character with a wisdom bonus of 21 and 330 healing amplification this is healing for 3654 = 4.3 * 21 * 40.
    * Lay on Hands - On my character with a charisma bonus of 38 and 350 healing amplification this is healing for 1710 = 4.5 * 38 * 10. The correct amount should be 4.5 * 38 * 30 = 5130.
    NOTE: On live my character with a charisma bonus of 37 and 330 healing amplification this is healing for 4828 = 4.3 * 37 * 30.
    * Slayer of Evil II: The Greater Restoration effect does not remove all ability damage and drain in R10. Per the spell description, all ability damage and drain should be removed.
    * Lead the Charge has a 12 second cooldown instead of 6.
    Healing/Lay On Hands will have its formula corrected in Round 2 of Lamannia.
    We'll take a look at the Greater Restoration effect, though that may not make it for Round 2 of Lamannia.
    Lead the Charge is meant to be 12 seconds, we'll get the notes corrected for Round 2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    Favored Weapon changes are nice it's just no where near enough, it's one thing to gimp a cleric who can heal an entire party, it's totally different to gimp a DPS Paladin.

    There must be something you all have up your sleeves that didn't make the first cut do to a misconception of what is and is not overpowered, hence your passed misses after all we all miss from time to time but, you miss 100% of the shoots you don't take.

    Before your throw in the towel, how bout one last haymaker if it connects with the people you've won them over and the belt is yours.
    ...what?

    Anyway: In other updates, Ascendancy (in T5) now also adds 15% Fortification Bypass in addition to its other features, to help crits land a little more often.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  16. #156
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    So, here's the thing with Holy Retribution. The current ability reads: "Melee Channel Divinity: Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. On Damage: Evil creatures may be forced to make a Will save (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses) or be destroyed. Evil creatures with under 1000 HP must always make this save or die.Evil creatures with between 5000 and 1000 HP have a 50% chance to be forced to make this save or die. Evil creatures with more than 5000 HP have a 33% chance to be forced to make this save or die."

    When it has a viable DC (as it does in U45), and lowered health restrictions (as it does in U45), it more or less becomes "Assassinate, but a Cleave". It can kill up to 25 targets at a time (more on the ranged version, but that's less likely to be pulled off). Even at 30 seconds, it's very strong, possibly too strong. We can shoot for a lower cooldown if that's what people want, but we're definitely going to bring its power down if we do, either through reducing the number of targets or the likelihood that they're forced to make the save.
    Here's the thing with that, at a 33% proc chance you might get one or two procs per use and only against evil creaters, which while representing most of the stuff we fight doesn't apply to constructs or elementals. For insta-kills there are a whole suite of them that are used by casters and rangers and are far more effective. Now fights in DDO are rarely these long 5 minute affairs where hordes of monsters attack you constantly, instead they are these quick 10~15s battles happening room after room. This means you'll get one roll on that ability per room at the best, likely one every other room and doing that means your not doing other stuff that would definitely have an effect. So when players are comparing such things they are doing in with opportunity cost in mind, doing that cleave with 3 monsters left alive is a waste and at 30s cooldown you REALLY don't want to waste it.

    As for the DC, it'll work in heroics and fail completely in epics. Does this count as a tactics feat, meaning +tactics stuff like in LD works?

    DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses

    DC 30 + Cha + Sunder
    DC 30 + 30 + 22 = 82

    An 82 DC is extremely weak at level 30, everything we want to kill will resist it and things that will fail it we would of killed in a few swings anyways. It's like all that dumb HP based ****, average melee hit at 30 is 500~1000 before crits, crits are several thousand so when added together average per-swing hit is 2000~3000 damage. Giving an ability a HP requirement makes it useless because it would just die from the damage on the cleave anyway.

    Imagine an ability that read
    "Deal 5W damage to target, if target is under 0 HP then make a save of (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses)"

    Seems kinda useless, yet that is what the HP requirement makes that ability anyway.

    So Low DC plus HP requirement plus 30s recast means it's useless in the current game meta. Maybe if you guys didn't make us have 120+ DC's to land things at cap we wouldn't view these updates so negatively.

    Did you do the balance on these things around heroic tier content or epic / legendary normal or hard? There is a gigantic jump in difficulty from epic / legendary hard to elite and another jump from elite to reaper. Things that work really well at EH / LH fall completely flat at EE/LE and above due to scaling.

    Believe it or not, the +damage and +fort bypass are probably the best things out of that tree, maybe the free KT feat since Paladins are so feat strapped. Inquisitive should of taught you guys that good passives are infinitely better then situational active abilities.
    Last edited by palladin9479; 01-24-2020 at 11:25 AM.

  17. #157

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    We've posted some Paladin-relevant information about things coming in Lamannia Round 2 here, if you want to comment on it ahead of that Preview.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Apologies for taking a while to get to this thread; I can't fix bugs/implement feedback changes and write long posts at the same time, & needed to get stuff ready for Lamannia Round 2 (coming soon!).

    These will be fixed in Round 2 of Lamannia.


    - It only states Attack, and grants Attack. It is against Evil creatures in total. +1 to Attack vs. Evil Creatures.
    - No, it's not meant to add Damage.
    - Champion of Good's bonus you are referencing is the Aura-based bonuses vs. Fear and Enchantment. I'll update that text.


    These should all be fixed in Lamannia Round 2, except the note about Censure Outsiders. We intentionally didn't link those in case someone wanted the passive Melee Power without taking Censure Demons. Divine Might should be entirely SP based, but was still also tracking TU charges.


    This is correct. The Favored Weapons bonuses here stack with the All Weapons bonuses.


    Not in this Update, but maybe in the future. We're going to see where the Throwing environment lands after this Update.


    Fixed for Lamannia Round 2.


    We're looking into this, it might not make Lamannia Round 2 but we hope to have a fix in for Live release.


    Khopeshes never stopped being good.


    Not in this Update, but we may find somewhere someday for Greataxe as a Favored Weapon.


    So, here's the thing with Holy Retribution. The current ability reads: "Melee Channel Divinity: Executes a powerful holy cleave against nearby targets that deals +5[W] damage, 100 extra holy damage that scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power, -6 to all ability scores for ten seconds, and recharges one Smite Evil charge to you. On Damage: Evil creatures may be forced to make a Will save (DC 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Mod + Sunder Bonuses) or be destroyed. Evil creatures with under 1000 HP must always make this save or die.Evil creatures with between 5000 and 1000 HP have a 50% chance to be forced to make this save or die. Evil creatures with more than 5000 HP have a 33% chance to be forced to make this save or die."

    When it has a viable DC (as it does in U45), and lowered health restrictions (as it does in U45), it more or less becomes "Assassinate, but a Cleave". It can kill up to 25 targets at a time (more on the ranged version, but that's less likely to be pulled off). Even at 30 seconds, it's very strong, possibly too strong. We can shoot for a lower cooldown if that's what people want, but we're definitely going to bring its power down if we do, either through reducing the number of targets or the likelihood that they're forced to make the save.


    Healing/Lay On Hands will have its formula corrected in Round 2 of Lamannia.
    We'll take a look at the Greater Restoration effect, though that may not make it for Round 2 of Lamannia.
    Lead the Charge is meant to be 12 seconds, we'll get the notes corrected for Round 2.



    ...what?

    Anyway: In other updates, Ascendancy (in T5) now also adds 15% Fortification Bypass in addition to its other features, to help crits land a little more often.
    Steel, did you all fix the stacking issues with the new/updated spells and Paladino own trees? Also have you made updates to strike through so it's not a nerf to one of the weakest styles and made it an actual buff? We have seen no updates or comments on the insultingly low strike through percentages. 2hf is pretty heavily linked to pally to me. Make st work with special attacks just like they work with ips and 2wf and increase base strike through and feats to 50% each. Even then that's pretty weak compared to casters unless they are getting 3 targets caps too?

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Steel, did you all fix the stacking issues with the new/updated spells and Paladino own trees? Also have you made updates to strike through so it's not a nerf to one of the weakest styles and made it an actual buff? We have seen no updates or comments on the insultingly low strike through percentages. 2hf is pretty heavily linked to pally to me. Make st work with special attacks just like they work with ips and 2wf and increase base strike through and feats to 50% each. Even then that's pretty weak compared to casters unless they are getting 3 targets caps too?
    Check the post directly above yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We've posted some Paladin-relevant information about things coming in Lamannia Round 2 here, if you want to comment on it ahead of that Preview.
    I'll move the typing of the spells around to avoid conflicts, don't worry.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Check the post directly above yours:



    I'll move the typing of the spells around to avoid conflicts, don't worry.
    To be fair, his post wasnt up when I hit reply, and good to hear about avoiding conflicts. Now strikethrough is at least better in single and small target situations (only at high levels though) but is still inferior in many target scenarios. Boost base strikethrough to 50 + 50 per feat and change the ap costs in trees to 1 for 5 rather than the really really bad 3 for 5. Get rid of the silly cap (unless ips and arcanes are getting a cap?) and fix cleaves, they should get speed boosts and double strike and adrenaline.

    Now the next issue, any dev plans to address the near 0 difference in statistical defenses between a ranged toon and a melee despite melee taking 10x the amount of swings?

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