Page 9 of 14 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 268
  1. #161
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    Stealth Mechanics

    Cocomajobo, I get the impression none of the DDO Developers are regularly playing Assassins in the stealth player sense.



    Since the change of monster 'visual detection' range dropping from: 25 metres to 18 metre (metre is the correct spelling for a unit of length) is mostly irrelevant. Because it's quite easy to get well within 18 metre of a 'hostile' and not get detected by a generic mob. I presume you mean an 18 metre Spot Radius?

    Even on a first life default path 'The Dark Blade' Rogue using random gear. Refer to any of my posts within the thread: R.O.G.U.E Part Quatre: Call for Stealthy Players!, e.g. [Post #428]. I'm using a default path first life Rogue and mostly using random equipment to partly illustrate that point.



    That was a rather mediocre run and it could have gone more smoothly but that's mainly due to the flipping annoying dark-purple shadowfell (plane) visuals nonetheless it was done during Preview U45.

    I play Assassins exclusively when on my home server. I don't tend to have much difficulty sneaking past most regular type mobs regardless of whether they are moving around. Although I do prefer to silently neutralise and thin out certain targets due to the current malfunctioning chain reaction aggravation.

    Therefore I'm not a stealthy full mob avoidance player albeit even I can manage those "R.O.G.U.E Part Quatre" quests that require "mostly zero or minimal kills" without too many hiccups. I can inform you it's not generally a 25 or 18 metre distance that's a problem with potentially being detected. It's trivial to get much closer and not be noticed.

    I assume you've mainly made the changes for people who are carelessly rushing through wilderness zones (with a Character without ranks in Hide and Move Silently). Or perhaps in quests where the stealthy player is already at imminent risk of getting rained down upon by arrows or spells, i.e. from already; active and highly aggravated mobs.

    Spot distance was never the problem with Rogue Stealth play: Post Reaper mode, anyway. It's faulty chain reaction aggravation that's the problem, not spot proximity. Any Assassin worth their salt can easily approach a generic mob to Assassinate and not get detected and Spot range was never the main issue with the current faulty stealth mechanics (from the players perspective).



    It's fair enough about the updated "Purple Visual Effect" Eyes for "Tremor Sense" mobs. For example; if you get random Champion or Caster combinations that maybe be able to detect stealthy players' via 'True Seeing' etc. Although to be honest you'll typically know long beforehand if a concealed but none directly visible Ooze or Spider is already close by when in Sneak via your Listen skill.



    So you'd decided approximately a "body length" reduction in their 'audible detection range' is going to be a game changer when faced with an Ooze, I'm really not following how you are coming to these conclusions. The problem isn't the distance from the monster before it detects you, it's the fact once detected they are hard to shake off...

    Let's take an example: the Oozes (Ochre Jelly) in 'Garl's Tomb' and 'The Troglodytes' Get' are some of the best "trackers" in the game! It's amazing how far they will faithfully travel to reach you. The early ones will go around corridors, climb up stairs continue following on, out of the room, along the passages... their range is crazy. All that time they are "locked on" to your position. They'll likely travel well over a few hundred metres in the hopes of digesting you.

    It suggests you haven't been actually testing the stealth system using Sneak and playing through quests. To be honest it's looking more like you picked some figures at random to reduce both: Spot and Listen type checks. In the hopes it would look as though you were doing something greatly beneficial. Does reducing the Spot and Listen range reduce monster chain reaction aggravation from spreading; if the player is detected?

    Reducing monster Spot and Listen distance was never asked for; just like removing the requirements for needing Sneak attack condition to Assassinate - certainly wasn't asked for by the Stealth enthusiasts. :-/

    Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how you think those new reduced monster's "perception" distance values are highly beneficial to "balance" (or a major improvement) with regards to Stealth and Sneaking. I'm sure the stealth enthusiasts would forward to hearing your response, with a clear explanation of how you were conducting the tests. :-)
    It really would be nice for devs to engage in conversation with stealth players.

    I look through this thread, I look through the entire Hey Lynnabel threads, and devs never seem to respond to players about anything related to stealth, even when they make changes.

    This would be a good time, since they asked for our feedback on the changes.

    SSG, it's been 3 years since you talked to your player base.

    You have made less than popular decisions when not talking to your player base. Maybe it's time to do so? Please and Thank You.

    I'll try and hit Lamannia U45v2 if I get enough notice to do so.

    I haven't played for a while, so my comments would be independent of the META, and purely about how stealth plays now.

    The amount of time and quality of my response may depend on hearing some sort of dev response to player comments, however.

    I'm curious if anyone out there is listening.


    On paper, I like that skill ranks in hide matter more now. Skill ranks are a true cost, and I would prefer people gear Hide Skill for hiding, instead of extra damage. There may be something else that needs to be added to make Ethereal a viable choice, but I am too far out of the META to say if or what. Scion of Ethereal doesn't sound like a max damage choice, so how about +2% max dodge? Or something unique like ignoring 10% of AC as your blade passes part way through them before contact. Whatever you can do that fits this theme.

    The lower radii would limit mass agro in the case of all-seeing mobs through walls, etc. I'm guessing it prevents people from grabbing reapers, but I'm not sure. I'm curious if the changes prevent a spider from running past non-hidden players to go after stealth players.

    Using skill ranks instead of hide score cuts down on your real-time calculations, as does your reduced radii. We all appreciate reduced lag, but I would like to see some changes based on improving play quality, even if these have to match up with decisions that also reduce lag.

    -Noko
    Last edited by nokowi; 01-20-2020 at 12:56 AM.
    - inactive player -

  2. #162
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    939

    Default Stealth and Sneaking

    Stealth Mechanics

    For whatever bizarre reason the DDO Developers have considered reducing the Monster Spot and Listen detection range (we'll assume radius).

    They haven't actually mentioned dropping any of the Monster's Skill checks (DCs) to those perception skills for detecting the Player. For example; the none True Seeing and other magical detection methods, echo location, vibrations, spider-senses, etc.

    Therefore it's clear; they do not want the person in Sneak approaching their "mark" via melee to have any better chance at avoiding being detected. It's just a matter of reducing distance a few metres.

    So now they are suggesting both 'audible' and 'visual' detection ranges should be both strangely set to 18 metres. The distance of 18 metres is nearly the length of two double-decker Buses or close to the length of a Railway Train, boxcar, railroad carriage.


    It's a treacherous road with a desolated view.


    For visual perspective; in the screenshot above, the distance from the Winter wolf Pup Creature companion, to the female white dressed NPC (Johanna d'Orien) will be somewhere near 18 metres.

    Therefore like I mentioned previously the changes would only seem to benefit targets at "long range" and nowhere near hazardous close combat or using Sneak to avoid nearby mobs. I was under the impression SSG didn't want people to rush through wilderness areas or quests. Totally avoiding combat surely it doesn't help with lag.

    The proposed changes seem to be related to Ranged combat only and not actually; players taking risks slipping past monsters, which I find very peculiar. We've asked the DDO Developers to enlighten us as to why they've chosen to reduce these distances?

    Because it's not making a whole lot of sense about what they are trying to achieve other than avoiding monster detection checks, but only at very long range. It's a range where typically you (stealthy player) aren't in much danger of being spotted anyway in the first place. Also a lot of dungeons have mobs in corridors or rooms, you must travel down, or milling near doors, which are certainly within a range of: 18 metres.

    Like I mentioned in my prior post [Post #158], typically getting within a couple of body lengths and not rousing a generic mob, isn't any major problem for stealthy DDO Assassin work in the first place, e.g. less than 10 metres.

    I will reiterate the question: perhaps you can enlighten us as to how you think those new reduced monster's "perception" distance values are highly beneficial to "balance" (or a major improvement) with regards to Stealth and Sneaking?

    To effectively communicate, we must realise that we are all different in the way we perceive the world and use this understanding as a guide to our communication with others.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 01-22-2020 at 06:11 AM.

  3. #163
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    Stealth and Sneaking

    For whatever bizarre reason the DDO Developers _____________ snip
    5-8 meters would be more RPG like imho...
    Sarlona: Thrundrack, Fizzix, Swyft______(alts x20)

  4. #164
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    Stealth and Sneaking

    For whatever bizarre reason the DDO Developers have considered reducing the Monster Spot and Listen detection range (we'll assume radius).

    They haven't actually mentioned dropping any of the Monster's Skill checks (DCs) to those perception skills for detecting the Player. For example; the none True Seeing and other magical detection methods, echo location, vibrations, spider-senses, etc.
    It comes across on paper as
    1) changes to reduce lag, without any thought to making play more interesting.
    2) adjusting damage to alter the META

    Did anyone here find the quality of stealth play improved on Lamannia?

    Having spiders detect you at long range (listen check with autodetection) was one of the most interesting features of the detection system. The problem with the AI was that spiders would not detect non-sneaking characters at that same distance.

    Having lost this interesting feature in U45, I'm curious if there is a benefit, such as spiders not running past non sneaking mobs, or if SSG is simply continuing on their path of degrading play quality over time.
    Last edited by nokowi; 01-21-2020 at 01:10 PM.
    - inactive player -

  5. #165
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    California
    Posts
    842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    It comes across on paper as
    1) changes to reduce lag, without any thought to making play more interesting.
    2) adjusting damage to alter the META

    Did anyone here find the quality of stealth play improved on Lamannia?

    Having spiders detect you at long range (listen check with autodetection) was one of the most interesting features of the detection system. The problem with the AI was that spiders would not detect non-sneaking characters at that same distance.

    Having lost this interesting feature in U45, I'm curious if there is a benefit, such as spiders not running past non sneaking mobs, or if SSG is simply continuing on their path of degrading play quality over time.
    nokowi, I for one am glad to see you here. I certainly understand your frustration and absence, but IMO you bring a lot of value to the discussion (assuming that they are listening). I re-posted a link to your excellent thread summarizing issue with stealth lay in this thread, on page 3 or 4. And I'll post it once again.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...led-Play/page3

    It seems like there is a consensus among us that the biggest single problem with stealth play is the shared auto-detection (chain mass aggro, whatever it is called) as detailed in that thread. I'm still genuinely confused about what problem they are addressing with this particular proposed stealth improvement. Will it improve the shared auto-detection situation? There has been no explanation as to how this proposal will improve stealth play, and the usual dead silence in response to questions about it (unless I just missed them). If anyone can help me better understand the proposed change, I would very much appreciate it.

    "Monster's sight detection of stealthed players has been decreased by 28% (was 25 meters, now 18) if their Stealth score exceeds the monster's spot skill. "

    So, if my stealth (Hide ?) 'score' exceeds the mob's Spot score, they will still see me sneaking at 18 meters? And before they were seeing me sneaking at 25 meters?!? That doesn't sound right. If I'm NOT sneaking, do they see me at 50 meters? I'm confused.

    I hold out a bit of hope in the change to Scion of Ethereal, in that they may be angling for Hide/MS ranks to matter more, in a way that starts to differentiate stealth invested toons from invis-zerging toons, allowing stealth to return as a viable playstyle. It may be a fool's hope. The silence from SSG on all things stealth, even when they are specifically proposing a change to stealth gameplay, continues to frustrate. I very much hope that I simply missed the explanation/responses from devs regarding the proposed change.

    EDIT: I think that I may see my confusion here. Perhaps someone can confirm? Does this change ONLY apply to all-seeing/tremor-sense mobs? It says that it INCLUDES them, but I read that to say that it includes those mobs in addition to all other mobs. Nowhere does it state that it excludes regular mobs. Was that implied?
    Last edited by 0ldschool; 01-22-2020 at 12:04 PM.
    Zanthiss - L30 Mechanic - Cannith: Hand of Death
    Zamsil - L30 TWF VKF assassin

    I've got a Dungeon Master's Guide... I've got 12 sided die...

  6. #166
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    662

    Default

    Bugs
    * Healing Hands - On my character with a wisdom bonus of 21 and 350 healing amplification this is healing for 945 = 4.5 * 21 * 10. The correct amount should be 4.5 * 21 * 30 = 2835.
    NOTE: On live my character with a wisdom bonus of 21 and 330 healing amplification this is healing for 3654 = 4.3 * 21 * 40.
    * Lay on Hands - On my character with a charisma bonus of 38 and 350 healing amplification this is healing for 1710 = 4.5 * 38 * 10. The correct amount should be 4.5 * 38 * 30 = 5130.

    Keepers
    * The rest of the hit point changes seem sound except for a few things I've noted below.
    * As pure Aasimar I was able to acheive an AC of 450 with the 10% AC bonus in Sacred Defender which is competitive with other splash tank builds. A dwarf or PDK would be able to get close to 500 which I think is really close to the AC ceiling.

    Suggestions
    * Strikethrough is a big nerf to tanks that use bastard sword and shield or dwarven axe and shield. This is harmful to hate tanks and reduces the tank meta to blocking and intimidate which is an unappealing playstyle.
    * Change Stalwart Pact to Gain a +5% Quality bonus to hit points. When your hit point total is below 50% gain temporary hit points equal to your caster level times charisma modifier. This cannot occur more than once every 3 minutes.
    * Add the 3.5 spell Strategic Charge (Spell Compendium) as a level 1 paladin spell which would grant the Mobility feat.
    * Add the 3.5 spell Unmovable Object (Ghostwalk) as a 4th level paladin spell which would add +2 str, +4 con, +4 AC, a +10 bonus to Balance and immunity to trip and knockdown effects.
    * Change Durable Defense to something else since Angelskin with PRR/MRR makes this an obsolete enhancement.
    * Change Glorious Stand (Core 18) to only have a +5% sacred bonus to hit points.
    * Add 10% healing amplification for the 1st, 3rd and 5th core of the Dwarf tree. While this tree has some good qualities, it still is a bit lackluster from a tanking perspective.
    * Allow Dwarves to get constitution to hit and damage with Throw Your Weight Around
    * Change Durable Defense to something else since Angelskin makes this an obsolete option.
    * Rework the Divine Righteousness threat buff since it doesn't stack with Inciting Defense.
    * Change Tenacious Defense and Ursa's Heart to a 10/20/30% competence bonus to hit points.
    Last edited by Alcides; 01-22-2020 at 07:45 AM.

  7. #167
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Our changes focus on two major areas: all-seeing/tremor sense visibility and range, and movement speed while sneaking.

    Stealth Movement Speed
    • All Sneak Speed enhancements are now on the Enhancement channel, and therefore will not stack. We've also fixed the Antirequisite flags on these abilities to more reliably prevent players from taking more than one.
    • Shadow Training II in Shadowdancer now gives a 150% Enhancement bonus to Stealth Movement Speed instead of setting you to the normal base movement.


    Stealth Mechanics
    • Monster's sight detection of stealthed players has been decreased by 28% (was 25 meters, now 18) if their Stealth score exceeds the monster's spot skill. This includes bosses and monsters that can see normally through stealth (All-Seeing).
    • When the player is Stealthed, they now see a visual purple eye VFX over any monster that pierces Stealth (All-Seeing and All-Hearing/Tremorsense).
    • Hearing range on "All-Hearing" monsters (aka monsters with Tremorsense) has been reduced by 10% (from 20 meters down to 18).


    Known Issues
    • N/A

    So, this is a great first attempt. Though personally I would LOVE if there were several things taken into consideration to increase the stealth benefits of the Shadowdancer.

    1) Would love it if Core II provided full movement speed while in stealth as a passive or at the very least make it a stacking passive bonus that when combined with the 75% bonus other class enhancements provide, you have full movement speed while in stealth.
    2) PLEASE allow the disarming of traps and flipping of switches from stealth, maybe trigger a listen check for nearby enemies but otherwise have it not kick you out of stealth if they have to have some sort of negative to it.
    3) Finally a revamp to Hide in Plain Sight to make sure it is working as intended, provides the correct bonuses, and allows the Shadowdancer to at the very least be on par with casters that buff themselves with Invisibility. It can feel pretty terrible investing a ton of skill points into Hide and Move Silently, enhancement points in stealth speed, and items to enhance the skills only to have a caster use a single spell costing them very few resources and be effectively undetectable for 14+ minutes.

    Otherwise I love that "All-Hearing" monsters are going to be gaining some sort of indication letting you know to be careful around them.

  8. #168
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    As part of U45 we're reshuffling where percentage HP can be found, as well as cleaning up and polishing the Tier 5s and late cores of Stalwart and Sacred Defender. We hope these changes open up a lot of new Tank builds and ease some of the pressure to multiclass for dedicated Tank players.

    Stalwart Defense
    • Stand Fast (Core 12): Instead of an Action Boost that ends Fear and Knockdown, this is now Fear and Knockdown immunity passively
    • Defensive Sweep (Core 18): No longer an active. Now passively adds +15% Exceptional bonus to Armor Class , +50% threat, and +25 PRR.
    • Against All Odds (Fills empty T5 Slot): +5 AC, taking damage adds a stacking +2 AC, stacks 10 times
    • Reprisal: replaced with: The Thick of Battle (Tier 5): Striking enemies adds +10% Melee Threat. Max 10 stacks, 10 second timer, all stacks fade when timer runs out.


    Sacred Defender
    • Glorious Stand (Core 18): No longer an active. Now passively adds +10% Sacred Bonus to Max HP, +25 Healing Amp, +3 Lay on Hands charges
    • Eternal Defender (Core 20): 250 Unconsciousness Range instead of 40.
    • Faith Shield (Fills empty T5 Slot): +10% Armor Class (same channel as EK), you are considered Shielded versus magic missiles, and have +12 SR.
    • Reprisal: replaced with: Divine Revelation (Tier 5): Improves your Aura of Courage. +4 Additional SR, +3 additional AC, +2 Additional Saves. You personally also gain +100 HP.


    Percentage HP
    • Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% Competence
    • Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence
    • Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful
    • Aasimar stays typed as Sacred, goes to 5% down from 10%
    • Bladeforged gains 5% Quality in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
    • Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity)
    • Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred
    • Occult Slayer t5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality
    • Renegade Mastermaker goes to 10% Quality down from 20% racial
    • Upgraded Zombie in t5 Palemaster goes to 10% Profane
    • Shintao t5 gains 10% Quality in meditation of war earth stance (up from 3% untyped)
    • Falconry t3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel)
    • Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality
    • Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Quality


    Thoughts? First impressions? Complaints about the removal of Reprisal? We're very much hoping that these changes make building a tank more of an exciting experience, and look forward to seeing what you all can come up with!

    Known Issues
    • N/A
    So, one of the things that has felt the most frustrating on my tank is that once a melee character hits Epic they can easily pop Epic Defensive Fighting and gain a 25% bonus to their health pool... which is higher than what non-optimized tanks were normally able to get.

    My suggestion is the following.

    1) Make it so that EDF is not able to be active at the same time as a tank stance.
    2) Have the tank stance provide 10% + 5% bonus per melee style feat with a cap of 25% or 30%.
    3) Allow Shield Style Feats to qualify for the bonuses that Tank Stance provides. Possibly at 10% bonus for both Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery with no other shield feats providing a bonus.

    That would allow people in tank stance to gain similar bonuses as EDF but with less restrictions, and it would finally allow shield tanks to get as much of a health boost as someone who cranked up their other melee styles.

  9. #169
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    939

    Default

    0ldschool, you didn't successfully post the actual link you wanted to show the DDO Developers.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    [...] I re-posted a link to your excellent thread summarizing issue with stealth lay in this thread, on page 3 or 4. And I'll post it once again.

    ["https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...led-Play/page3"] ...
    You must have copy-and-pasted the wrong text as that's just truncated, [showthrea...led-Play/page3] and not a working URI. I will assume you meant to post a working link to the following: Stealth Used to be for Skilled Play, page three being: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...led-Play/page3.

    Ah, I see what you mistakenly did; you just copied the text from within an actual post which shortens the visible text portion so it fits on the page without a huge string of text. The correct method is to copy the actual link and not the displayed text. ;-)

    Also you likely was meaning to add: Question for the Devs: Why isn't Stealth Supported in Reaper?. It was noted nobody whatsoever that represented SSG even had the common decency to post within that thread. Hence why they couldn't legitimately lock the thread either. Because even though some individuals, that were discussing Stealth, ended up actually being personally attacked with completely off-topic comments, the thread mostly kept on track. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloomfall View Post
    [...] 2) PLEASE allow the disarming of traps and flipping of switches from stealth, maybe trigger a listen check for nearby enemies but otherwise have it not kick you out of stealth if they have to have some sort of negative to it. ...
    Levers and Switches don't make sounds and usually you have to be stationary when operating levers or during the actual disabling of traps. Thus a monster Listen check wouldn't really be needed - it could actually make things harder if there was a Listen check. You come completely out of Sneak with some interactions concerning levers. Therefore unless you can quickly reposition, dropping back into Sneak, you're likely to be easily spotted at very close range. In most cases there's usually cover nearby when dealing with traps (disabling traps doesn't bring you out of Sneak) or the mobs aren't close enough to notice.

    Although do I agree with the fact it can sometimes be an inconvenience opening doors and suchlike if there's a mob standing sentry, and you don't want to eliminate the mob, but want to open the door a few feet away. I understand what you are concerned about - even if it may seem otherwise.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 01-28-2020 at 08:18 AM. Reason: URI and traps.

  10. #170
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    California
    Posts
    842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    0ldschool, you didn't successfully post the actual link you wanted to show the DDO Developers.



    You must have copy-and-pasted the wrong text as that's just truncated, [showthrea...led-Play/page3] and not a working URI. I will assume you meant to post a working link to the following: Stealth Used to be for Skilled Play, page three being: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...led-Play/page3.

    Ah, I see what you mistakenly did; you just copied the text from within an actual post which shortens the visible text portion so it fits on the page without a huge string of text. The correct method is to copy the actual link and not the displayed text. ;-)

    Also you likely was meaning to add: Question for the Devs: Why isn't Stealth Supported in Reaper?. It was noted nobody whatsoever that represented SSG even had the common decency to post within that thread. Hence why they couldn't legitimately lock the thread either. Because even though some individuals, that were discussing Stealth, ended up actually being personally attacked with completely off-topic comments, the thread mostly kept on track. :-)
    .
    Thanks for noting that! I've fixed my post as well.

    It was a very pleasant surprise for me to see SSG make some effort towards improved stealth mechanics, though I'm still not 100% sure what that change is or whether it will improve the situation much. It does prove that they are listening to some degree. But to actually offer up changes on these forums, where the entire point of the exercise is to get player feedback, and then to not respond in any way to player feedback on the stealth mechanics changes is rather confusing. It causes greater friction based on the fact that, as you pointed out, SSG tends to go radio silent when there are ANY stealth threads. It is pouring salt into an old wound.

    I'll post a question that I have about the proposed detection radius change. From nokowi's thread, the following issue was detailed.

    "It doesn't make sense that a mob detects you sooner when you are sneaking than when you are not sneaking. Mobs run past people marching in heavy armor to go after the stealthed character. The nonsensical detection ranges combine with the shared auto detection to create a stealth system best used to generate agro. That makes ZERO design or play sense."

    Is the change to detection radius that is proposed for U45 an attempt to improve this problem?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by 0ldschool; 01-22-2020 at 12:16 PM.
    Zanthiss - L30 Mechanic - Cannith: Hand of Death
    Zamsil - L30 TWF VKF assassin

    I've got a Dungeon Master's Guide... I've got 12 sided die...

  11. #171
    Uber Completionist kuzka111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    209

    Default Epic Defensive Fighting

    is it only me or EDF should add some prr/mrr% bonus too, i know many will disagre with this but guys i play only melee chars and its so stupid for me that im beeing 1-2 hited in r7+ content

    i know ssg said they will not focus balance around reaper but 90% of ppl play reaper and they accualy do this

    look at sorcs/wiz and inquis they are op at r7+ and it bc of there dps and that they are range and all ppl playing melee get slaughter'ed

    imo edf should at 20% prr/mrr bonus for example or all prr/mrr should be redesigned

    i play Pally 20 lvl got all past life , top gear , got 112 reaper ap and still i get 1-2 hited it so lame...

    you guys do melee upgrade in wrong way i know dps is needed too but the defens is in worst place imo

    i dont know maybe add 50% ac insted bc its so not fun after so many years that we still need to splash with monks only for dodge...

    guys ac is lame you need to have 0 dps to have good ac and i dont ask that pally/melee should be like invincible just they should not be 1-2 hited
    Leader of Radical Dreamers

    Character's: Kylerr Heroic Past life: 42/42 Icoinic Past life: 21/21 Epic Past life: 48/48 Racial Past life: 36/36

  12. #172
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Posts
    2,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuzka111 View Post
    i know ssg said they will not focus balance around reaper but 90% of ppl play reaper and they accualy do this
    I wanted to say "that's just not true", but since there is no evidence either way, I'd just say, "that's highly unlikely".

    From my experience, most people play elites or R1, the rest are a small minority.

    Also, balancing around r7+ would trivialize the rest of the game. Yea, getting one-shotted is stupid, but that's an r7+ problem, ask the devs to balance reaper, not to balance the whole game around reaper. Though that's also unlikely, because reaper is unbalanced by design.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  13. #173
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,942

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    From my experience, most people play elites or R1, the rest are a small minority.
    Agree, at least by the LFMs I see. I do not know what closed groups like guilds and certain channels do, they may play higher reaper content. I don't know how many of "them" there are as compared to LFM groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Also, balancing around r7+ would trivialize the rest of the game. Yea, getting one-shotted is stupid, but that's an r7+ problem, ask the devs to balance reaper, not to balance the whole game around reaper. Though that's also unlikely, because reaper is unbalanced by design.
    Exactly. This is what the reaper trees are for, if you need more PRR/MRR then increase it in there, not in a feat.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  14. #174
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    397

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    I wanted to say "that's just not true", but since there is no evidence either way, I'd just say, "that's highly unlikely".

    From my experience, most people play elites or R1, the rest are a small minority.

    Also, balancing around r7+ would trivialize the rest of the game. Yea, getting one-shotted is stupid, but that's an r7+ problem, ask the devs to balance reaper, not to balance the whole game around reaper. Though that's also unlikely, because reaper is unbalanced by design.
    Yeah this is definitely a Reaper balance issue, the monsters offensive buffs are WAY out of whack with everything else. It's one of the reasons Inquisitive was so abused, it could do full DPS from a distance on any class. Want halfing PL's? Run an Inquisitive on high reaper. Want cleric PL's? Run an Inquisitive on high reaper. Want paladin PL's? Run an Inquisitive on high reaper. And race, any class combination would be a fully functional ranged DPS using an Insensitive build.

    At least Sorc requires a specific build to be adhered to.

  15. #175
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    27,279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    This is a huge nerf, I don't think people will catch onto yet. Pay attention to wording, they are basing it off your RANK now instead of your MODIFIER. My assassin rogue is crying.
    Yep someone in our office here made this comment - that some of the biggest nerfs get the least amount of ink when it comes to negative feedback.

    150 hide score = 50 points of SA - would go up the more they creep the power. As dex raises / dex skill items / hide skill value items etc, the damage would increase.

    23 hide rank = 34.5 and its capped at that - unless theres ever a way to get more than 23 ranks. Epic levels simply add a +1 to totals, they dont up the ranks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  16. #176
    Uber Completionist kuzka111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Then tell why you guys are silent about how op are sorc/inqis bc they are running r7+ like its piece of cake then Elite/r1 is?

    But that's ofc fine...
    Leader of Radical Dreamers

    Character's: Kylerr Heroic Past life: 42/42 Icoinic Past life: 21/21 Epic Past life: 48/48 Racial Past life: 36/36

  17. #177
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    397

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuzka111 View Post
    Then tell why you guys are silent about how op are sorc/inqis bc they are running r7+ like its piece of cake then Elite/r1 is?

    But that's ofc fine...
    I don't think anyone is being silent on Inqusitives, Sorcs on the other hand are a different beast and not remotely the same as Inquisitive.

    I can be a 14 Paladin, 2 Ranger, 4 Bard, ignore all class abilities, class spells, class feats, class enhancements, spend my points only in Inquisitive and Racial's trees and I'd still stomp the **** out of high reaper content. You can run any class combination on any race with any build and still break the game with just using Inquisitive, *that* is why it's broken. Fire Sorc on the other hand is a very specific build, someone can not use fire sorc to get Paladin past lives for example. Due to this I see about 8x more Inquisitive's running around then Fire Sorcs. So while Fire Sorc is still kinda OP, there is a restriction attached to that OPness and those Sorcs are forced to play other builds to get their various PL's in.

  18. #178
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    939

    Default

    0ldschool, I think what Noko, was referring to in the thread "Stealth Used to be for Skilled Play". Is when you hit 'Sneak', Creatures with 'specialised detection' abilities such as a Spider's "tremor sense" seem to specifically choose (prefer) to travel towards that Character in Sneak.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    [...] I'll post a question that I have about the proposed detection radius change. From nokowi's thread, the following issue was detailed.

    "It doesn't make sense that a mob detects you sooner when you are sneaking than when you are not sneaking. Mobs run past people marching in heavy armor to go after the stealthed character. The nonsensical detection ranges combine with the shared auto detection to create a stealth system best used to generate agro. That makes ZERO design or play sense." ...
    Whereas when the Stealth Character is just standing they don't tend to attract any additional (or special) attention when within a group from said monster.

    Therefore it's almost as if when Sneak is present, the monster moves that Character up the 'Hate List' and constantly "pings" the person in Sneak - ignoring others close by. So when he was referring to "distance". He was likely meaning the (nearest) visible frontline armoured mob clattering around was getting less attention. Than let's say the stealthy person at the back of the party in Sneak (with great Hide and Move Silently) that theoretically should be harder to notice or detect - when in Sneak.

    We've already determined the proposed reduced range to 18 metres is unlikely to be that beneficial to the type of stealthy player slowly creeping (inch-by-inch) towards their target. So it probably has something to do with Ranged combat.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the main reason the DDO Developers are planning on lowering the (Monster's) setting for both 'audible' and 'visual' to: 18 metre was just to make it easier for the 'Dungeon designer'. For when they 'place' monsters; so they don't have to do thorough testing, i.e. dumbing-down.

    It (reduced monster detection range) certainly didn't seem to make any difference in those "Stealth Challenge" quests I tested in the U45 Preview; I actually did test another quest that I didn't mention prior.

    Cocomajobo, I presume part of the reason nobody from 'Team DDO' has replied to the "Stealth and Sneaking" questions in this thread. Is because; you enjoy focusing on responding to posters mewling like babies about 'combat related' changes. Rather than respond to honest queries not related to power creep.

    I cannot imagine the fact that a mere slip of a girl asks you about; why reducing monster detection range, against players in Sneak, to 18 metres is beneficial, etc? Is overtaxing to respond to, or likely to invoke the wrath of the gods. Or even going to result in the; "In case of Emergency: Break Glass, with hammer, and call Severlin..." scenario. :-)

    If you fail to take note of bad-news, then you will be unable to convert it into wise courses of action.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 01-23-2020 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Typos.

  19. #179
    Community Member Valerianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    335

    Default

    it really seems like they have orders not to answer sneak-related topics. more and more people think this way. i just followed their lead, i quitted and retired my favored alt and quitted spending on him long time ago (actually at later time i retired all the other alts to play main only cause grind and i laugh everytime i see the advance your alts discount advertise but that's another matter) and stopped commenting about. i say followed their lead because i think they just want every stealth player to quit to have less problems about a game mechanic they don't know and they don't understand. not because they are stupid but because it needs a dedicated playerbase and they refuse to answer feedback they don't understand what's about. a shame because it's a high skill high risk and really rewarding playstile you have to learn and build and gear for. accomplishment. and a non-trinity build\style approach, maybe this is the key problem. but ddo should be non-trinity, best feature is char customization and variety. less variety, poorer game.

    i don't know what to think and this is the best my little brain made up.



    about the preview, i suspect there's some combat (glancing blows calculations-related) and stealth (detection and mobs looking at each other-related) undeclared lag reduction in mind. having some ranged steer away from ips may be a factor too. and the infamous supposed "hcl data".

    i think this because no anwer to stealth changes player feedback (as Always) and thf being butchered. it doesn't make sense. there must be something we do not know\unsaid to us. i know they'll change the thf changes in preview2, but the preview1 was so bad but so bad that required no testing to say it was bad but really bad, just a glance at the notes.

    ssg i love you and your games are wonderful (i had a ddo pause and i play lotro atm), you can do better than this. maybe you do, but we can't see it. noticed how every little thing is received with paranoia and the search for a hidden malevolent evil overlord plan starts? yeah i'm doing it too. players may be destructive and harsh. i often am. but the lack of trust, you started that.
    Server: Cannith

    Guild Forum: La Santa Alleanza

  20. #180
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    4

    Default Name change

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    As part of U45 we're reshuffling where percentage HP can be found, as well as cleaning up and polishing the Tier 5s and late cores of Stalwart and Sacred Defender. We hope these changes open up a lot of new Tank builds and ease some of the pressure to multiclass for dedicated Tank players.

    Stalwart Defense
    • Stand Fast (Core 12): Instead of an Action Boost that ends Fear and Knockdown, this is now Fear and Knockdown immunity passively
    • Defensive Sweep (Core 18): No longer an active. Now passively adds +15% Exceptional bonus to Armor Class , +50% threat, and +25 PRR.
    • Against All Odds (Fills empty T5 Slot): +5 AC, taking damage adds a stacking +2 AC, stacks 10 times
    • Reprisal: replaced with: The Thick of Battle (Tier 5): Striking enemies adds +10% Melee Threat. Max 10 stacks, 10 second timer, all stacks fade when timer runs out.


    Sacred Defender
    • Glorious Stand (Core 18): No longer an active. Now passively adds +10% Sacred Bonus to Max HP, +25 Healing Amp, +3 Lay on Hands charges
    • Eternal Defender (Core 20): 250 Unconsciousness Range instead of 40.
    • Faith Shield (Fills empty T5 Slot): +10% Armor Class (same channel as EK), you are considered Shielded versus magic missiles, and have +12 SR.
    • Reprisal: replaced with: Divine Revelation (Tier 5): Improves your Aura of Courage. +4 Additional SR, +3 additional AC, +2 Additional Saves. You personally also gain +100 HP.


    Percentage HP
    • Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% Competence
    • Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence
    • Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful
    • Aasimar stays typed as Sacred, goes to 5% down from 10%
    • Bladeforged gains 5% Quality in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
    • Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity)
    • Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred
    • Occult Slayer t5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality
    • Renegade Mastermaker goes to 10% Quality down from 20% racial
    • Upgraded Zombie in t5 Palemaster goes to 10% Profane
    • Shintao t5 gains 10% Quality in meditation of war earth stance (up from 3% untyped)
    • Falconry t3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel)
    • Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality
    • Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Quality


    Thoughts? First impressions? Complaints about the removal of Reprisal? We're very much hoping that these changes make building a tank more of an exciting experience, and look forward to seeing what you all can come up with!

    Known Issues
    • N/A
    I'd change the name of Defensive Sweep to something else unless you plan to also give it the strikethrough. Otherwise it would make no sense. Perhaps something like Dauntless Vigil given the extra defenses,

Page 9 of 14 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload