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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U45 Preview 1: Alchemist Bombardier Enhancement Tree

    Hello, all! This is the First Look thread for Alchemist's Bombardier enhancement tree.

    If you haven't looked at the Base Class and Spellcasting threads yet, I suggest you do that first, then come back here.

    Bombardiers create and throw powerful elemental concoctions; these Spellvials have a variety of effects, from massive damage to stopping enemies in their tracks. Bombardiers primarily take an offensive role, dealing with large groups of enemies effectively.



    Core 1: Field Expertise: +2 MRR
    Core 2: Arcane Oil: All equipped weapons are considered Spellcasting Implements.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +5 Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Power

    Core 3: Pick one of the following elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Poison). You gain +1 Caster Level with spells of that element. You also gain 1 Burning Ambition Dice.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +5 Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Power

    Core 4: Pick one of the following elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Poison). You gain +1 Caster Level with spells of that element. You also gain 1 Burning Ambition Dice.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +2% Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Critical Damage

    Core 5: Pick one of the following elements (Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, Poison). You gain +1 Caster Level with spells of that element. You also gain 1 Burning Ambition Dice.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +1 Conjuration DC

    Core 6: Multiselector: SLA for Multivial of (Element)
    • Passive: +4 INT. You also gain 1 Burning Ambition Dice.
    • Passive: While in Pyrite Reaction, you gain +2 Conjuration DCs.


    Tier 1:

    • SLA Multiselector: Level 1 Vials: Crimsonite SLA
      • Venom Vial
      • Vial of Flame
      • Vial of Acid
      • Vial of Frost
      • Vial of Sparks
      • Empty Vial
    • Skills: +1/2/3 Spellcraft and Use Magic Device
    • Magical Subtlety: -20/40/60% threat with spells
    • Spell Crit Damage: Elemental & Poison (+1% spell crit damage with fire, cold, electric, acid, and poison)
    • Wand & Scroll Mastery (as in other trees)


    Tier 2:

    • Rapid Condensation: Giltleaf SLA
    • Efficient Metamagics: Multiselector
      • Maximize
      • Empower
      • Quicken
      • Enlarge
    • Stone of the Savant: Alchemist's Stone Toggle: While wielding an Orb in your off-hand, you gain +1 MRR and MRR cap per Alchemist Level. You also gain +5 Elemental Resistance to Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Sonic, plus an additional +5 for every 5 Alchemist levels you have
    • Spell Crit Damage: Elemental & Poison (as above)
    • Elemental Defenses: When you take Elemental Damage, you gain 10/20/30 Temporary HP.


    Tier 3:

    • -
    • Efficient Metamagics: Same Multiselector as Before)
    • Swift Ambition: When your reaction is Pyrite, you gain +1 Reflex Save, +1 for every 5 Alchemist Levels you have
    • Spell Crit: Elemental & Poison (as above)
    • +1 INT


    Tier 4:

    • Smoke Bomb: Giltleaf SLA
    • Efficient Metamagics: Heighten
    • Burning Ambition: When your reaction is Pyrite, your Crimsonite and Gildleaf spells will ignite enemies struck with a damage over time that lasts for 12 seconds and procs every 2. This begins at 2d6 damage, scaling with appropriate spell power. Each element (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison) corresponds to a different element of damage over time, and enemies can have all 5 different DoTs on them at a time. They will each proc and count down independently.
    • Spell Crit: Elemental & Poison (as above)
    • +1 INT


    Tier 5:

    • Elemental Obliteration: Crimsonite SLA Multiselector: Deals 1d6+6 (Chosen Element) damage per Caster Level to all enemies in an AOE. (MCL: 10) (Activation Cost: 12/8/6 Spell Points. Cooldown: 20/14/8 seconds.)
      • Fire
      • Cold
      • Electric
      • Acid
      • Poison
    • Augmentation: Passive: +2 caster levels with Crimsonite or Gildleaf.
    • Inferno of Creation: When your Reaction is Pyrite, you have 4 additional Burning Ambition dice, and your harmful Crimsonite and Giltleaf spells apply vuln to enemies that have at least 3 different elements of Burning Ambition
    • Weakening Mixture: Multiselector: Pick a damage type (Fire Cold Acid Lightning Poison). When you damage an enemy with a Crimsonite or Gildleaf spell of that element, you increase your damage of that element against that creature by 15%.When cast on a creature that is immune to that Element, it makes them vulnerable to that element for a short period of time.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    Burning ambition clarification. Is that +1 dice meaning +1d6 (to a base 2d6) or +2d6 per "dice"?. So maxed out, is it 9d6, or 16d6.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-O View Post
    Burning ambition clarification. Is that +1 dice meaning +1d6 (to a base 2d6) or +2d6 per "dice"?. So maxed out, is it 9d6, or 16d6.
    Good question. Each added dice is 1d6, added to the base 2d6. Maxed out is 9d6.
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  4. #4
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    I'm trying to understand why smoke bomb and rapid condensation are SLA's in the offensive casting tree. I understand that the tree is crimsonite/giltleaf oriented, but it just seems out of place.

    Are the efficient metamagics supposed to be 1 AP per rank? I sure hope so. They were always a bit strange costing 2 AP for not-so-big a gain.
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  5. #5
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    I don't like that this tree both wants me to use multiple damage types and forces a choice for vial element and yet also penalizes spell crit because it is to use multiple types over a single focus. I don't care if they share a cooldown, it would be nice if I could easily change between them. With RL belts and a hot bar swap, it would make it more fun, and as they share cool down, equivalent. Same with the actual spells. Could it be as simple as making it an option that you can then swap into your hotbar like resist energy/DBF/Fire Shield (and off topic, but also the Draconic Incarnations Energy Burst line)? Let me have the easy possibility of adapting to a situation. Let me throw fire in a scarecrows face one second and a burst of electricity the next! Let me be the mad bombardier, capable of throwing out anything at any given moment and reward me for doing so! A Sorcerer makes you a master of one element, let the Bombardier be the true jack of them all!

    I had fun though with the Alchemist so far. I wish I had more creative 6th level spells to play with. Big kabooms, waves of sulphuric acid, giant slimes, bottled lightning, metamorphic weapons of quicksilver, philosopher's stones as the ultimate (or simply passable) resurrection! Truly great alchemical works to give a little flash or power, like how Artificer gets Tactical Detonation as an ultimate bomb and Deadly Weapons as their ultimate weapon modification
    Last edited by reywas; 01-15-2020 at 12:57 AM.

  6. #6
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    A few issues/comments after testing:

    1. Why increase caster level?

      There are lots of options both in the tree, and from alchemist feats, to improve your caster level with spells. However, a decent chunk of alchemist spells have a MCL of 10, including all of the damage SLAs in the tree. Unless I'm missing something, there appears to be a grand total of one way to improve your max caster level with anything, the Level 18 Advanced Alchemical Studies feat. I don't really understand what increasing my caster level is doing for me. During leveling, in very specific level brackets it will give me a boost to a couple of spells (like Gold Breath and Molotov Cocktail), but for many of my core damage spells, it's giving no benefit. All the increases in caster level appear to be completely useless to me if I'm a level 20 Alchemist during epic levels.

      You would usually expect in a caster tree for the later cores and the T5 enhancement (Augmentation, in this case) to give a bonus to max caster level, as well as caster level. I assume the reason that this hasn't been done in this case is that MCL increases would dramatically improve the damage of Multivial. If this is the reason, I would consider changing Multivial to not scale with caster level at all, and just be a flat 10d6+20 damage per vial. Given that you can't access Multivial in any form until level 12, this is functionally how the spell behaves anyway (outside of Advanced Alchemical Studies).

      At the moment, these enhancements feel either useless or something that you would want to respec out of in a couple of levels, which is particularly a shame as it makes up a good chunk of the power of three of the cores. In addition, it removes some of the interest in selecting which element to specialize in for cores 3-5, as the choice appears to be meaningless: you're only really interested in the Burning ambition bonus and the Pyrite bonus passives, which are not impacted by your choice of element.

    2. Burning ambition not working as intended?

      Burning ambition does not appear to be functioning as a damage over time effect; it appears to doing one tick of damage immediately after each instance of damage, then the DoT effect ticks away harmlessly. I'm assuming this is unintended functionality? As it stands, the way burning ambition works disincentivizes using multiple elemental damage types in the way the tree seems to want to promote (particularly as Inferno of Creation does not appear to trigger vulnerability at all). It also makes the multivial spells very, very powerful, as each cast of them results in 5 seperate AoE ticks of Burning Ambition, which makes it comfortably the alchemist's best spell.

    3. Unreliable spells

      It's very difficult to nail down exactly when this happens, but the AoE vial spells (e.g. Molotov Cocktail, Multivial) seem to have no effect sometimes when used at close range while moving around with an enemy targeted. I expect that, in such situations, the vials may very well miss their target, but they don't appear to be doing their AoE effect. This doesn't happen when you self target in order to throw the vial at your feet.

      While I'm at it, it appears that the SLA version of Multivial cannot be cast either while you have yourself targeted or when you have no target, but the regular spell version can be cast both of these ways.

      Also, SLA Rapid Condensation (which, as others have said, feels a very strange thing to be put in this tree, particularly when it feels like the Bombardier would like another offensive SLA at low levels) cannot be casted without an enemy target. This signifcantly hampers its utility.



    Overall, the tree currently feels robust at low levels, where the basic level 1 vials and molotov cocktail at level 6 compare favorably to the spells other blasters are using, then feels like it relies almost completely on Multivial at level 12+. As Multivial doesn't really scale beyond level 12, it feels like the damage fades off as you approach 20 (outside of picking up the strong Gold Breath at 15), and pales in comparison to Sorcerers and PM Wizards in epic.
    Last edited by RedSorc; 01-15-2020 at 09:17 AM.

  7. #7
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    One of the early enhancement texts (I forget which) has nnDND Dice where I think the 'nn' was meant to be \n\n for new lines.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    In the tree, the Tier 1 Crimsonite SLA multiselector needs to be polished. A few "n"s are there.

    I think that the there selectable SLA "Vial Of Sparks" should hve the same icon as the real spell "Vial Of Sparks" has. And this with the other SLA icons as well.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Good question. Each added dice is 1d6, added to the base 2d6. Maxed out is 9d6.
    I must be missing something. I count 6 or 10d6 as the max. First 2 dice for the tier 4 enhancement. An additional die for each of the cores 3-6 for 4 more dice making it 6d6 with the capstone. If you then count the 4d6 from Inferno of Creation that makes 10d6. So, where are you getting 9d6?
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  10. #10
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Default 2 minor issues

    --Elemental Defenses is too strong at low level. Maybe reduce the amount of HP but have them scale w/level or SP.

    --Tier 4 Smoke Bomb SLA doesn't feel right. That spell is not normally available until level 9, making it available as an SLA 5 levels early pushes it too far. Compare to sorc savant SLAs make level 3 spells (available at lvl 6)at tier 5 (sure those are mainstay DPS spells but still...) or to Kensai Wpn Grp Specialization that has a prereq of a Ftr 8 feat. This SLA needs to be scrapped, level restricted somehow, or the spell itself needs to be reduced to a level 2 or 3 spell.
    Cilon can be found on Orien.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Default The Tree is Burnt!

    Burning Ambiton is the heart, soul, and reason for this tree's existence. It is also too strong. It will make Bombadiers the ultimate End Game Boss DPS without too many liabilities. So they'll be able to do passable healing, crowd control, some other general support, then be the top DPS when the boss comes 'round.

    Burning Ambition coupled with Inferno of Creation can get 50d6 of dots ticking (and applying vulnerability w/tier 5 inferno of creation) on a given target as a secondary effect by pelting it with a bunch of standard attack spells. This needs a nerf before it goes live.

    On a separate, lesser note, Elemental Obliteration is too much. Compare to Fire Savant SLA fireball. This does more damage (10d6+60 vs. 10d6+30 not counting increased MCLs) and adds a bigger dot (typically 4-10d6 vs. 1d6 stacking). And 5 of those dots can be ticking (so 40-50d6 w/vulnerability in a much shorter time vs. 20d6). I recommend reducing the damage to 1d6+2 or 3 /cl or extending cooldown by 1ish seconds even after nerfing the whole burning/inferno thing.

    --
    As noted in my previous post, my Burning Ambition dice calculation maybe a bit off, but even if so, my conclusion is the same.
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  12. #12
    2016 DDO Council Member Strimtom's Avatar
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    Here are all the things I found that were either bugs or suggestions for adjustment:

    bombardier
    [BUG]crit chance instead of crit damage
    [BUG]rapid condensation sla throws too many potions
    [BUG]burning ambition is not a dot, it only does initial damage
    [BUG]weakening mixture: immunity breaks, but 15% vulnerbility does not apply
    [BUG]efficient metamagics cost 1?
    [Suggestion]Elemental obliteration T5 should do double the damage it does now. Very underwhelming. Maybe make it parity with necrotic blast, 1d6+5 per level.
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  13. #13

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    Elemental Obliteration is meant to be (almost exactly) Fireball, the main difference being the bottle arc (...and the availability of non-fire element choices) . Is it not matching that?
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    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Elemental Obliteration is meant to be (almost exactly) Fireball, the main difference being the bottle arc (...and the availability of non-fire element choices) . Is it not matching that?
    It is not. It is listed as 1d6+6 / CL where as Fireball is listed as 1d6+3 / CL.

    Then there are the dots... If the dots are scaled back, I would be ok with it being fireball level, but would prefer it to be a tiny bit weaker.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    --Tier 4 Smoke Bomb SLA doesn't feel right. That spell is not normally available until level 9, making it available as an SLA 5 levels early pushes it too far. Compare to sorc savant SLAs make level 3 spells (available at lvl 6)at tier 5 (sure those are mainstay DPS spells but still...) or to Kensai Wpn Grp Specialization that has a prereq of a Ftr 8 feat. This SLA needs to be scrapped, level restricted somehow, or the spell itself needs to be reduced to a level 2 or 3 spell.
    Spellsinger can get Shout Spell like ability on 3rd level, while on Shout spell alone must wait until lvl 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    Burning Ambiton is the heart, soul, and reason for this tree's existence. It is also too strong. It will make Bombadiers the ultimate End Game Boss DPS without too many liabilities. So they'll be able to do passable healing, crowd control, some other general support, then be the top DPS when the boss comes 'round.

    Burning Ambition coupled with Inferno of Creation can get 50d6 of dots ticking (and applying vulnerability w/tier 5 inferno of creation) on a given target as a secondary effect by pelting it with a bunch of standard attack spells. This needs a nerf before it goes live.
    50d6 dmg dot is about 175 dmg per 2 seconds before spell power (1925 dmg per 2 seconds with 1000 spell power). It is nice, but doesn't sound as ultimate boss beater. One wiz/sorc 9th level single target spell do 20d6 +560 (around 630 dmg before spellpower) - almost four time more.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    On a separate, lesser note, Elemental Obliteration is too much. Compare to Fire Savant SLA fireball. This does more damage (10d6+60 vs. 10d6+30 not counting increased MCLs) and adds a bigger dot (typically 4-10d6 vs. 1d6 stacking). And 5 of those dots can be ticking (so 40-50d6 w/vulnerability in a much shorter time vs. 20d6). I recommend reducing the damage to 1d6+2 or 3 /cl or extending cooldown by 1ish seconds even after nerfing the whole burning/inferno thing.
    But if compared with uncaped d6+5 per caster level (so it can easily be 30d6 +150) Necrotic blast spell like from Palemaster tree ....
    Last edited by Xario; 01-16-2020 at 03:02 AM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    It is not. It is listed as 1d6+6 / CL where as Fireball is listed as 1d6+3 / CL.

    Then there are the dots... If the dots are scaled back, I would be ok with it being fireball level, but would prefer it to be a tiny bit weaker.
    That's a typo in the description/notes - the actual spell damage is 1d6+3 (and is doing that in the build on Lama right now). We'll get that fixed for next Lamannia.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xario View Post
    Spellsinger can get Shout Spell like ability on 3rd level, while on Shout spell alone must wait until lvl 10.
    Good point. I counter with, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
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  18. #18
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    That's a typo in the description/notes - the actual spell damage is 1d6+3 (and is doing that in the build on Lama right now). We'll get that fixed for next Lamannia.
    Cool beans. OFC I would like to see it a little weaker than fireball but I can get over it.
    Cilon can be found on Orien.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    Good point. I counter with, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
    But it is only your opinion, that it is wrong. Other people can have another opinion. One possible benefit of spell like abilities is, that you have access to a spell you haven't (yet, or even missing on your spell list). Spell like abilities aren't only about free metamagic, or lesser cost exchange for longer cool down.

  20. #20

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    Enhancement splits for a 20 Alch nuke-focused character don't offer much in the way of customization:

    41 Bombadier (T5 and capstone)
    25 Apothecary (core 4, INT, 20% runspeed)
    XX Racials
    YY Remainder in Bombadier

    -OR-

    41 Bombadier (T5 and capstone)
    27 Harper (nets +15 USP and +2 INT more than Apothecary)
    XX Racials
    YY Remainder in Bombadier

    Vile Chemist only offers 10 poison spellpower for an 8 AP investment. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
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