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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U45 Preview 1: Alchemist Vile Chemist Enhancement Tree

    Hello, all! This is the First Look thread for Alchemist's Vile Chemist enhancement tree.

    If you haven't looked at the Base Class and Spellcasting threads yet, I suggest you do that first, then come back here.

    Imbuing their concoctions and Simple weapons with potent poisons, Vile Chemists are versatile combatants. Between striking foes with poison-coated weapons and tossing Spellvials filled with toxins, Vile Chemists take a hybrid weapon/casting offensive role, dealing with individual targets effectively.



    Cores

    • Core 1: +2 to saves vs. Poisons, +2 to saves vs. Diseases. Poison Spells you cast leave an enemy Contaminated.
    • Core 2: Poisoned Coating
      • Exclusive with Eldritch Knight Toggles.
      • Toggle: While active, deal an additional 1d6 Poison damage on hit. You gain an additional 1d6 every 3 Alchemist levels (at 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18). This damage scales with Spell Power.
      • Passive: While your Reaction is Orchidium, +5 PRR.
    • Core 3: +3% Doublestrike. You gain a chance based on your Intelligence score to throw an extra Simple Thrown Weapon per attack.
      • Passive: While your Reaction is Orchidium, +5 PRR.
    • Core 4: +10 Universal Spell Power, +5% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Your Poisoned Coating dice are now D8s (instead of the original d6s). If you have Simple Thrown Expertise, you now use the higher of your Dexterity and Intelligence to determine the chance to throw an extra projectile.
      • Passive: While your Reaction is Orchidium, +5% Dodge and full Base Attack Bonus.
    • Core 5: Brushed Aside: You gain the Defensive Roll feat (When below 20% HP, there's a chance equal to your Reflex save that attacks do half damage and have their effects negated). Your Poisoned Coating Dice are now d10s (Replacing previous d8s). Your Simple Weapons gain +1 Competence bonus to their Critical Damage Multiplier.
      • Passive: While your Reaction is Orchidium, +5% Dodge and +5 PRR
    • Core 6: +4 Intelligence. Your Poisoned Coating die size is now d12. You gain +2 Poisoned Coating dice.
      • Passive: While your Reaction is Orchidium, +10 PRR and +5% Dodge Cap.


    Tier 1

    • Stiffen Skin: Ceruleite SLA.
    • Deadly Poison: +2 to hit and +1 to damage with Simple Weapons.
    • Alchemical Accuracy: +1/2/3 to attack
    • Martial Subtlety: -20/30/40% threat generation with melee and ranged attacks
    • Skills: +1/2/3 to Hide, Move Silently, and Bluff. Rank 3: +1 Reflex Saves


    Tier 2

    • -
    • Deadly Poison: +2 to hit and +1 to damage with Simple Weapons.
    • Poisoned Shot: Multiselector: Melee/Ranged attack: +1/2/3[w]: On successful damage: struck enemies are Contaminated. (6 second cooldown).
    • Venom Affinity: +3/6/10 Poison Spell Power, Rank 3: +1 Reflex saving throws
    • Stone of the Subliminal: Alchemist's Stone Toggle: While wielding an Orb in your off-hand, you gain +5% Doublestrike, +5% Doubleshot, and are Blurry. You can only have one Alchemist's Stone Toggle active at a time



    Tier 3

    • Wave of Poison: Cerulite SLA:
      • You infect enemies in a short cone with a deadly poison that eats away at them. After 6 seconds, target creatures take 1d6+4 Poison damage per Caster Level. (MCL:10). (6 second cooldown). Affected Enemies are Contaminated for 20 seconds.
    • Deadly Poison: +2 to hit and +1 to damage with Simple Weapons.
    • Toxic Augmentation: Striking an enemy that is Contaminated with a melee or ranged attack reduces their Fort Saves by 1, stacks 6 times.
    • Willful Ambition: When your reaction is Orchidium, you gain +1 Fortitude Save, +1 for every 5 Alchemist Levels you have
    • DEX or INT


    Tier 4

    • -
    • Deady Poison: +2 to hit and +2 to damage with Simple Weapons.
    • Envenom the Heart: While your Poisoned Coating is active, hitting enemies that are immune to Poisons or Poison Damage makes them vulnerable to Poisons and Poison Damage for 12 seconds. Creatures you hit that are not immune to Poisons take 15% more Poison damage for a while.
    • Unbreakable Ambition: While your Reaction is Orchidium, +8 PRR.
    • DEX or INT



    Tier 5

    • Greater Wave of Poison: Cerulite SLA:
      • You infect enemies in a short cone with a deadly poison that eats away at them. After 6 seconds, target creatures take 1d6+8 Poison damage per Caster Level. This will Contaminate enemies. (MCL:20).
    • Fatal Poison: +2 to hit and +2 to damage with Simple Weapons. +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Range with Simple Weapons. For Darts, this Range bonus is +2 instead.
    • Toxic Augmentation: Striking Contaminated enemies will apply stacks of Vulnerable.
    • Sapping Ambition: While your Reaction is Orchidium, attacking with Simple Weapons gives a 10% chance to gain 10 temporary Spell Points +1 per Alchemist level.
    • Chemical Weapon: Passive: Your Simple Weapons gain +1[w]. Your simple ranged thrown weapons attack 15% faster.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    I really hope the chance for additional attack based on int/dex is max 1 extra per attack, and not 1 extra per damage number (i.e. with multishot). Because it won't be hard to get ~90-100 int (meaning 100% chance of +1 attack), if that means +2 attacks with 100% doubleshot (so 4 attacks per attack) it's going to be inquistive all over again. Particularly so with multishot putting it at what, ~7 attacks per attack. With the +attack speed form T5, and the visanti attackspeed it's going to be hilariously broken. Particularly so with an even stronger EK dice (8 instead of 7, and breaks through immunity/+15% dmg). Add the free healing in the form of heal mixture, and 45 free PRR, and you're looking at ranged meta 2.0. The -20% dmg from IPS won't even matter, you'll be doing more than inq was and then some.

    EDIT: not to mention free stacking of vulnerability. I strongly hope you tune down a lot of the stuff presented here. And if not, here comes the VC visanti abuse.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  3. #3

    Default Simple Throwing weapon attack speed stacking

    @SSG: Is there a hard cap (like 100% offhand strikes for TWF) or a soft cap (like animation limitations) when stacking attack speed for throwers?

    022 Blinding Speed
    060 Whirling Wrists
    005 Vistani Knife Juggler
    010 Primal Hymn
    015 Vile Alchemist Chemical Weapon
    ---
    112 throwing attack speed
    Kobeyashi | Ying

  4. #4
    Community Member Krumm's Avatar
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    Doubleshot

    9% past life
    2% ship
    10% vile Chemist Enhancement
    10% doubleshot feat
    20% sharn set
    120% simple thrown weapon expertise (with 120 int & core 4 of vile chemist)
    12% various filigree
    13% enhancement eq
    7% insight bonus eq
    --------
    203%

    just using vile chemist enhancement tree (you can get few more double shot from other trees) & assuming core 3 of vile chemist limits the extra attack to 1, your base # of attacks without any reaper/action boost is 4.03!

    with reaper doubleshot bonus 30% + multitude of missiles 120%, you are looking at 5.53 attacks per attack.


    From what I understand, doubleshot % has no cap... right?
    Last edited by Krumm; 01-14-2020 at 04:42 PM. Reason: bad math

  5. #5
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    Before getting all worked up about how "overpowered" these bonuses sound, keep in mind this is literally the same benefit that shuriken monk builds get (2x dex to extra hits) it is undoubtedly going to work the same as shurikens do.

    Shuriken builds are not bad, but they are no inquisitors, and the real base to this is the fact that no matter what you do, you arent going to get a high base damage on a dart, throwing dagger, or shuriken to the degree you can with heavy xbows. And since damage in DDO is so heavily based around crits that is a big deal.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krumm View Post
    Doubleshot

    9% past life
    2% ship
    10% vile Chemist Enhancement
    10% doubleshot feat
    20% sharn set
    120% simple thrown weapon expertise (with 120 int & core 4 of vile chemist)
    12% various filigree
    13% enhancement eq
    7% insight bonus eq
    --------
    203%

    just using vile chemist enhancement tree (you can get few more double shot from other trees) & assuming core 3 of vile chemist limits the extra attack to 1, your base # of attacks without any reaper/action boost is 4.03!

    with reaper doubleshot bonus 30% + multitude of missiles 120%, you are looking at 5.53 attacks per attack.


    From what I understand, doubleshot % has no cap... right?
    Ah, so this is why all other ranged builds are getting nerfed...
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Ah, so this is why all other ranged builds are getting nerfed...
    Sure, but keep in mind that...

    - Pure Ninja Spy monks can hit 170% doubleshot with the same stats, substituting 10k Stars for STWE, and get both Shuriken Expertise and the Core 2 boost, yielding 4.73 base attacks vs. 5.23. 10k Stars has 30 seconds uptime and a 60 second cooldown, while Multitude of Missiles is 20s up and 3 min cooldown

    - There are only a couple named Darts / Throwing Daggers. Not counting raid loot, Leg. Arc Ricochet is probably the best, beating out Twisted Missile. Counting raid loot, Spite is probably on par with Fate and Wide Open Sky.

    - Wait, you have 120 Int?! Never mind, I'm gonna sit this one out

  8. #8
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    Default Wave of Poison

    The animation seems odd. I would have expected it to be a cone spreading straight out from the character rather than a hose spreading from one side to another. The "wave" seems to come from the midriff and not be spreading equally from one side to the other as well.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Core 3: +3% Doublestrike. You gain a chance based on your Intelligence score to throw an extra Simple Thrown Weapon per attack.
    On Lamannia, Hidden Blades (core 3) lacks the chance based on Int score to throw an extra simple thrown weapon. Instead the in-game description says Darts and Throwing Daggers you equip gain +1[W].

    So what is correct? The above description, or what is in game?
    Kobeyashi | Ying

  10. #10
    Community Member Deathbrings's Avatar
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    Core 5: Brushed Aside and T5 Fatal Poison both give a competence bonus to crit multiplier. As expected they do not stack. I question the reasoning for this. That said overall I am enjoying the tree.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathbrings View Post
    Core 5: Brushed Aside and T5 Fatal Poison both give a competence bonus to crit multiplier. As expected they do not stack. I question the reasoning for this. That said overall I am enjoying the tree.
    Fatal Poison is supposed to be crit range not multiplier so together it'd be both boosts.

  12. #12
    Community Member Deathbrings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    Fatal Poison is supposed to be crit range not multiplier so together it'd be both boosts.
    That makes a lot more sense. The in game tooltip for fatal poison is reading both multi and range so threw me for a loop.
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  13. #13
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    First impression: Contaminated ought to actually *do* stuff much earlier in the tree - it starts applying with first core, one might not unreasonably expect it to actually do something at that point. Similar thought on the other trees too to be honest.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Discpsycho View Post
    Sure, but keep in mind that...

    - Pure Ninja Spy monks can hit 170% doubleshot with the same stats, substituting 10k Stars for STWE, and get both Shuriken Expertise and the Core 2 boost, yielding 4.73 base attacks vs. 5.23. 10k Stars has 30 seconds uptime and a 60 second cooldown, while Multitude of Missiles is 20s up and 3 min cooldown

    - There are only a couple named Darts / Throwing Daggers. Not counting raid loot, Leg. Arc Ricochet is probably the best, beating out Twisted Missile. Counting raid loot, Spite is probably on par with Fate and Wide Open Sky.

    - Wait, you have 120 Int?! Never mind, I'm gonna sit this one out
    Yea' Im curious where he's getting that int from and how much he is sacrificing for that.

    Also not part of that, the animation for greater wave of poison seems to be angled down into the ground.
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  15. #15
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    Default One typo

    While converting this tree for my character planner I noticed a typo in one of the cores where you use D8 a capital D character for dice, where in all other locations (so far) you have used a lower case 'd'. Just looks a tad incongruous.
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  16. #16
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Darts and Throwing Daggers

    I really like the thought of using either or both of these weapons in new builds.

    I am curious about the intent of this. Back when Vistani was released, I was very excited to build a Throwing Dagger toon. I actually thought it pretty much sucked wind. I was so sad. Throwing Daggers simply didn't live up to what I thought it should based on the focus in the tree.

    So maybe my initial thoughts/feedback is twofold:

    1- Can a dagger/alchemist build (maybe incorporating Vistani) actually be decent enough to run Epic Hard quests (that was always my target since that is what I enjoy). It seems like there is enough of a buff to do this. That leads to...

    2- Is the "Dart build" hinted at a trap similar to the Throwing Dagger "trap" during the Vistani release?

    Anyway, I love finding different types of builds that use much different weapons and I would love to try a Dart build and even "resurrect" my Throwing Dagger build.

    Thanks for being an awesome team!
    Taleisin

  17. #17
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    early cores in all alchemist trees are really weak

    particularly the first cores

    +5 to subset of spell powers while in a reaction - whereas, for example, EK grants +10 to all and many other abilities

  18. #18
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Doa?

    Just realized that without either an Enhancement or a higher level Spell for Displacement that the melee build using simple weapons and robes is dead. Literally I think. Any chance to add a new spell at level 5 or 6 perhaps?

    I know some folks will just say farm for clickies but I am not a clicky user. I have enough buffs and buttons to keep track of already! Ha!!!

  19. #19
    Community Member Meltone_revenants's Avatar
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    Kinda wish Swashbuckler bards got something too to make them basically have expertise with throwing simple weapons too. Ninja spy 2nd core and VC 3rd and 4th core pretty much locks them in as the most effective at throwing volume of projectiles. Swashbuckler always had a side of it that supports throwing daggers and such but never was able to touch shuriken throwing ninja spy monks, but all the sudden the new class on the block shows up. Kinda feels like a portion of swashbuckler's throwing intent was ignored. That's just my opinion though, I understand not every class should make amazing throwers but there is throwing stuff in the tree and it feels like I'd have to make an int based alchemist with 6 or less levels of bard to kinda get them up there, but that technically isn't a bard thrower, that's an alchemist with bard levels...
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  20. #20
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    Default DEVS: plz fix Return to Sender (heroic & epic) to work with IPS :)

    Hi Devs,

    Would it be possible for Return to Sender (heroic and epic) to be fixed to work with IPS? Unfortunately it has never worked with it since it was introduced in the game.
    With the new feat being added to help knife/dart thrower builds, as well as the Vile Alchemist tree, the paralysing effect this weapon has would make it be a great choice of weapon.

    Thanks!

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