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  1. #101
    Community Member thunir's Avatar
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    Default Is there no real cc role for alchemist?

    Flesh to Gold, Mass (flesh to stone PBAoE) 30 SP, 90 second cooldown

    Best cc spell, 90 second cool down? Crazy, 90 seconds renders a spell virtually worthless.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    What?

    Alchemists get evasion but it's buried deep into the class and requires a feat slot. If you're complaining about this, then you should be complaining why rangers get evasion at level 9, and why Swashbuckler bards don't need to splash or burn a feat at all and get it in their capstone. I'm not understand your logic in this argument.
    the point is to either give every class a way to get evasion without splashing/shadow dancer or remove evasion from alchemists. why does a non-agility based class gets evasion without sacrificing capstone or being forced to run in an epic destiny they don't want to run in, while other non-agility classes cant get evasion. you say it requires a feat like its a bad thing. the feat it requires is an extra class feat so its not like say a feat starved paladin having to pick and choose from its limited 7 feats its a free feat at lvl 12 that they can conveniently scoop up evasion with. it sure would be nice if every class got a free feat at lvl 12 to grab evasion or any other useful feat that was normally restricted from them. alchemists are a magic using class so why aren't other magic using classes allowed free evasion? they also aren't a trapping class so why do they get free evasion while artificiers don't. wizards and artificiers being int based combined with the insightful reflexes would be the same thing as alchemists but you don't see either of them getting free evasion. and as far as rangers go they have evasion in pen and paper D&D so that's why they have it here, as far as I can find alchemists did not.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Lamannia testing.

    Purchased Alch PL is +1 UMD and a 1/rest clickie that replenishes mana, based on level. At level 30, it's 160 (maybe 165?) mana.
    Wow..... that's weak. Then again all purchases plus feats but completionist are weak...... Game desperately needs a feat pass.

  4. #104
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tafla421 View Post
    the point is to either give every class a way to get evasion without splashing/shadow dancer or remove evasion from alchemists. why does a non-agility based class gets evasion without sacrificing capstone or being forced to run in an epic destiny they don't want to run in, while other non-agility classes cant get evasion. you say it requires a feat like its a bad thing. the feat it requires is an extra class feat so its not like say a feat starved paladin having to pick and choose from its limited 7 feats its a free feat at lvl 12 that they can conveniently scoop up evasion with. it sure would be nice if every class got a free feat at lvl 12 to grab evasion or any other useful feat that was normally restricted from them. alchemists are a magic using class so why aren't other magic using classes allowed free evasion? they also aren't a trapping class so why do they get free evasion while artificiers don't. wizards and artificiers being int based combined with the insightful reflexes would be the same thing as alchemists but you don't see either of them getting free evasion. and as far as rangers go they have evasion in pen and paper D&D so that's why they have it here, as far as I can find alchemists did not.
    First, alchemist is going to wear robes unless you want to burn feats on armor proficiency; none of the enhancement trees offer any armor upgrades. That's one of the reasons why they get evasion.

    Second, artificers have access to a wide range of armor proficiency as well as a tank tree and alchemists does not. Sorcerers and wizards have access to the eldritch knight tree for defense and armor upgrades as well as shield proficiency, while alchemists do not. Therefore, the alchemist's best defense is their reflex save, and even then they get it later than everyone else except bard and don't get improved evasion at all (something only monk gets for free, since rogue has to burn a class feat on it and rangers have to go tier 5 in tempest to get it).
    Primary Home: Argonnessen
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    First, alchemist is going to wear robes unless you want to burn feats on armor proficiency; none of the enhancement trees offer any armor upgrades. That's one of the reasons why they get evasion.

    Second, artificers have access to a wide range of armor proficiency as well as a tank tree and alchemists does not. Sorcerers and wizards have access to the eldritch knight tree for defense and armor upgrades as well as shield proficiency, while alchemists do not. Therefore, the alchemist's best defense is their reflex save, and even then they get it later than everyone else except bard and don't get improved evasion at all (something only monk gets for free, since rogue has to burn a class feat on it and rangers have to go tier 5 in tempest to get it).
    wizards, sorcerers, wear robes where is their evasion? monks receive improved evasion as an auto granted class feat, rogues also receive class feats that they can take it for free. see there just because rogues get a choice of what feat to take for their extra class feat doesn't mean they dont get imp evasion free. actually it can be considered better because they have the choice on if they want to take it or not. it is still a class feat both monk and rogue use to get it.

    second all those fancy flavor trees you are citing for defense were added way after the fact for each of those classes. those classes didn't need defensive trees, and except for multiclass builds which try to minmax specific stats those trees are sub par. I mean when is the last time you saw an eldritch knight wizard out performing either of the other 2 trees? what about an eldritch knight sorc? you say that alchemists only wear robes so they should have evasion. well guess what bards as you point out get evasion from swashbuckler. they can also grab medium armor proficiency from a class tree, so shouldn't swashbuckler not have evasion by your logic there? I mean warlocks can wear medium armor from a class tree but I don't see them getting evasion. lets also not forget that most armor meant for casters is usually of the cloth type. so even if you can wear heavy armor you aren't wearing it for your casting.

    now as far as artificers go they are still a trapping class. if any class should be able to take evasion it should be a class that deal with traps. either that or give them a construct that protects them from traps and other things that generally require a reflex save you know like evasion

  6. #106

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    Are all of the Alchemist spells purchasable from a vendor? I assume so since they can't be cast from a scroll.
    Kobeyashi | Ying

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunir View Post
    Flesh to Gold, Mass (flesh to stone PBAoE) 30 SP, 90 second cooldown

    Best cc spell, 90 second cool down? Crazy, 90 seconds renders a spell virtually worthless.
    This applies to many spells, almost everything except the damage potions have huge cooldowns. Melt lock is 10 sec vs Knock 2.5. You are going to be standing at a chest for like 5 min if you need to roll a 20.

    Not sure why you are recreating spells that are never used like sleep, daze, hypnotize, grease, and Remove Paralysis. I don't think Remove Paralysis does anything in the game. Why would you ever cast it? What debuffs does it remove? Why wouldn't you just buy a potion in the marketplace even if it actually worked?

    The crazy long cooldowns are silly. This fact alone makes me unlikely to play anything other than bombardier. The only spells currently with low cooldowns.
    Last edited by capsela; 01-24-2020 at 12:27 PM.
    Toon on cannith

  8. #108
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tafla421 View Post
    wizards, sorcerers, wear robes where is their evasion? monks receive improved evasion as an auto granted class feat, rogues also receive class feats that they can take it for free. see there just because rogues get a choice of what feat to take for their extra class feat doesn't mean they dont get imp evasion free. actually it can be considered better because they have the choice on if they want to take it or not. it is still a class feat both monk and rogue use to get it.

    second all those fancy flavor trees you are citing for defense were added way after the fact for each of those classes. those classes didn't need defensive trees, and except for multiclass builds which try to minmax specific stats those trees are sub par. I mean when is the last time you saw an eldritch knight wizard out performing either of the other 2 trees? what about an eldritch knight sorc? you say that alchemists only wear robes so they should have evasion. well guess what bards as you point out get evasion from swashbuckler. they can also grab medium armor proficiency from a class tree, so shouldn't swashbuckler not have evasion by your logic there? I mean warlocks can wear medium armor from a class tree but I don't see them getting evasion. lets also not forget that most armor meant for casters is usually of the cloth type. so even if you can wear heavy armor you aren't wearing it for your casting.

    now as far as artificers go they are still a trapping class. if any class should be able to take evasion it should be a class that deal with traps. either that or give them a construct that protects them from traps and other things that generally require a reflex save you know like evasion
    Wizards and sorcerers are, by default, in robes. However, they have access to light, medium, and shield proficiency in the eldritch knight tree. Eldritch knight was made to provide melee options to wizards and sorcerers. They're exchanging spellcasting ability for melee options. Additionally, any wizard or sorcerer can delve into the tree for defensive benefits without hampering their spellcasting too much, and gain light armor and some useful low-hanging defensive buffs (in fact, this is very common). Alchemist has NO ACCESS WHATSOEVER to armor or shield proficiency outside of burning feats. This is why wizards and sorcerers don't have evasion and alchemists do.

    Bards, in general, have easy ways to heal and a wide variety of crowd control options for any sort of build, as well as an easy-access movement speed bonus, a good amount of low-hanging dodge bonuses, automatic light armor proficiency and access to medium armor proficiency if they want it. Giving them evasion so easily would be giving them too much in addition to their other class benefits (swashbuckler gets it in their capstone, but that forces them to wear light armor). Alchemist does not have access to any armor proficiency, no movement speed bonus unless you're resigning yourself to more of a supportive role, no easy-access dodge bonuses, and lower base HP. That's why alchemist gets evasion and, once again, they both gain it late in their class options than other classes.

    Artificers don't have evasion, but they do have access to all armor proficiency feats, a have a defensive-oriented tree with a large increase to MRR and HP, as well as several forcefield options. While artificers are a trapping class, they are going to take less damage from traps than rogues if they get hit due to their higher PRR and MRR stats. Artificers can also take insightful reflexes, since they are an int-based class. So, artificers have a fairly large amount of defensive options and benefits while alchemist does not. That's why alchemist gets evasion.

    Warlocks wear light armor, by default, and have a plethora of temporary HP options, as well as medium armor proficiency if they want it, in addition to a higher base MRR than any other class. They're also not a reflex-based class at all, so it doesn't fit to give them evasion. This is why alchemists get evasion and warlocks don't.

    Why are you so upset that alchemist get evasion? They have very few defensive benefits. Do you want them all to be running around in robes with no way to gain any real defense? Why the bias?
    Primary Home: Argonnessen
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