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  1. #61
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    I think they have a potion that overrides your healing to positive, sort of like the Renegade has one for repair, someone mentioned.
    Well, thats good.

    Ty.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRoark View Post
    The thing that threw me, was Evasion, as a selectable feat. I didn't know labrats were all closet ninja.
    I assume they put it in there so someone might actually try it as a pure class rather than just automatically splashing 2 rogue...

    I didn't see in the notes whether you can be centered while pot-tossing. Anyone try a alchemist-monk mix? (I'm having a vision of Batman...) Could Ninja Spy's poison stuff complement the venom-based potions?

  3. #63
    Community Member Paladin_of_Power's Avatar
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    [BUG] Poison Breath spell doesn't do any damage. The animation works and looks nice.
    [BUG] Glue bomb throw has a much higher arc than others.
    [BUG] The Salt Crystal does need a target and if target runs to the side or behind you the spell wont cast.
    [BUG] Throwing arcs got wonky the further back I got from the kobolds. If you go back far enough they just shoot straight up in the air and are thus useless. I wonder if standing in the large area of the dojo and throwing into a smaller kobold area confuses the geometry engine.
    [BUG] I'm not sure, but I don't think the 3rd rank of Venom Affinity added any more Poison spellpower. Would have to test that.

    I expected more of the Poison spells to do damage over time. Would really like more the poison spells to have a lingering DOT affect in addition to their first hit damage.

    Vile Chemist Contamination is a neat idea but feel like it needs to do more. Add a chance of nausea, blindness, confused, slow or dazed ? The Contaminated affect doesn't do anything until a Tier 3 feature is acquired. Seems like a big level and ap delay until the tree's signature affect does something. Plus Contamination only does anything if the mob is hit by a weapon. If someone threw a bottle of Drain-O it would be horrible!

    Empty spots on the Vile Chemist tree make pandas sad. Empty spots could be used to add the above affects. Or add some other SLA's.

    Wave of Poison and its Greater variant: the animation looks like it sprays to the left, and not much to center and none to the right. But the aoe it hits seems to work like the normal cone. Animation is confusing and not reflecting area of effect. Including distance.

    Core 3 of VC on Lam said it adds +1[W] but it did not. Release notes say instead to add DS and DS.

    Would like to see some more Transmutation gear added to the game since it's a thing now. And darts.

    Chemical Weapon, would like to see an increase to attack speed for darts, since they're smaller and lighter than anything else you throw, the can be thrown faster.

    Everyone knows labrats have dart boards in their lab to practice with while their experiments are cooking. And play dodgeball with their buddies at Average Joe's. (evasion).

  4. #64
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    I leveled from 1-12 during the preview. Went fully organic, no gear from the dojo, no guild buffs. I messed around quite a bit. Human, 18 int, 13 dex, 15 con? Max/Empower.

    I ran everything on Elite, mostly at level.

    Level 1 - Korthos - Unlike a sorc you chain your little level 1 vial spells. I opted for Bludgeoning and fire. By and large, I just let Byron do the work.

    Level 2 - Keep on the Borderlands - Now packing Bludg/Fire/and Acid level 1 vial spells, I also had the AP for the Vial SLA. I opted for Electric, and I stuck max/empower on it. For 1 spell point, I was getting almost 80 damage out of it, which just wrecks mobs. One shotting stuff is fun. The other three little non-meta'd spells gave me something to kill with while the cool down was running. They do decent damage, and keep me from waiting for Byron to do all the work. Got my caster sticks, opted for acid and lightning, pulled a fire robe and a cold ring out of my end rewards. Didn't really have any problems.

    Level 3 - Back to Korthos/Harbor - I jumped into the healing tree, and snagged the CLW SLA. Four points well spent, max/empowered it is landing 30-40 HP on me for 4 spell points. Opted for the poison vial for my level 2 spell, need some AOE. Managed to find a nullification necklace. That poison AOE is just clean sweeping groups of monsters.

    Level 4 - More hot Harbor action - Level up in Intel, big surprise. Took the red spell casting feat for my class feat. Now running at level and you can tell the difference as your caster level goes up. I'm dropping 100+ SLA vials, my CLW thing is now hitting for like 50. Snagged Cold spike for my next level 2 spell - between it and the SLA vial, nothing gets to me. I've upgraded to the level 4 fighter for my hireling and apparently he's sporting some real HAMP because I'm dropping 70-80 on him when I splash my CLW on us.

    Level 5 - Catacombs! - I spread myself thinner and went after the poison tree with my AP's. Snagged the armor buff SLA in my quest to get the alchemy stone out of it - as this is the only place to get blur. And I want blur. popped on craptastic acid orb I found, but hey, now I have blur! Dumped the rest of the points into the nuking tree, honestly nothing exciting AP wise till later. I enjoyed the new catacombs, but the immunity to poison (my only aoe) made this a long slog. Had the glue pbaoe to lock down the skellies when they got uppity. Which they did. Luckily between the greater tome of learning, and the lefter over xp from the harbor, it took me to six.

    Level 6 - Sharn Syndicate/Waterworks - Quicken spell for my SLA's. Oh joy! I have AOE options beyond poison! Opted for the electric one. Still pumping up the nuking tree. I can see burning ambition, and kind of get how its going to work, but I'm not giving up my heal or my blur for it. heal is rocking out at 125+ me at this point, and nearly double that on the level 6 sword weilding elf fighter. My vial SLA is now hitting 200+ all day, and critting out at 400. AoE Poison and Lightning and just awesome. Pick one and kill a pack of kobolds in one shot. Except champs. But that is what the SLA vial is for right?

    Level 7 - STK/Depths/3BC - Snagged another level 1 vial spell, grabbed the cold one. Got my second level 2 spell, have the flashfreeze pbaoe cc one. Everything is melting to the AOE's and if I do get surrounded, that ice thing works even better than the glue. More points in the nuking SLA. I've chosen lightning for 3rd core element choice, which makes that AOE even hotter. I can see burning ambition, but as I'm 10 points behind due to my need to drop 4 in the healing tree for the CLW SLA, and six in the poison tree for my hot Blur action, I'm not quite there yet. Soon though. Soon. Interesting enough, and I probably should have mentioned this before, but with search as an in class skill, and intel my primary, I'm having no trouble with secret doors on elite, and I'm also finding the traps and boxes. Maybe a bug? I can't disarm them, but the traps and boxes are showing up.

    Level 8 - WPM/Red Willow/Valaks - Level up in INT. Another Alchemist feat! Took battallion brew. For Funsies. Got another 2nd level spell slot. Melt armor, single target fire nuke. I was flush xp wise from 3bc, so this one went quick. WPM sucked, as it always does - mobs have inflated HP even on heroic. Red willow? One electric AOE will one shot like 4 mobs. WPM? need both poison and electric to do the same. Whatever. Plenty of spell points. Primary use is the poison AOE, becuase its derp cheap. I've noticed I pretty much live in the Pyrite condition.

    Level 9 - Sentinels/Deleras/Tear/Gwylans - Precision. You'd think with the parabolic arc I wouldn't have a problem hitting the caster in the back with my SLA. You'd be wrong. Precision fixes this. Picked up Cindersmoke for the fire aoe, and melt lock for the knock. I'm rocking burning ambition now. It does not work as written. I'm looking for that hot DOT action, but it only ticks once. However, the stacking from the elements works, and it is impacted by spell power, so I lead with my weakest then move up from there. Blud/cold/fire/acid vials now wreck mobs pretty good, and again are dirt cheap. Ran into a horde with three crowns, and the poison/fire/electric combo worked really well with bonus from burning ambition. Would be nice if it worked correctly though. Blowing a lot of mana I don't need to.

    Level 10 - Storm Cleave/Strombvaulds/Thrall/And because I hate myself, Slavers - Picked up vein freeze for another AOE. Kinda bored with the enhancement trees - don't get me wrong, I'm doing enough damage, and I'm not running outta SP before I hit the next shrine (although it was close a couple times) - I know first life is chump life, and I'm still using a couple of pieces of level four gear and all. But the SLAs for the nuking true are ****. Obscuring mist? Really? And 12 second invis/displacement? This is the nuking tree mate. Honestly just pull em out and leave that side empty so I don't feel so insulted.

    Level 11 - VoN/WPM - More spell slots - level 1 got dedicated to another vial, level 2 went to resto vial, and level 4 went to stoneskin. I've got the nuking tree prepped for level 12, so I dip deeper into the heal tree, getting the temp HP buff (28 temp HP ain't bad), and immunity to magic missles, because I'm sick of scrolls.

    Level 12 - Ravenloft - Level up in INT. Accellerate Metamagic! **** it, everything gets this because you can't toggle it for individual spells. Its only five sp. Also, liquid luck, because evasion is awesome. Level 5 spell! Took flesh to gold, my AOE is pretty good already especially as I can spend the AP and get ELEMENTAL OBLITERATION. Finally another damage SLA. I gleefully apply max/empower to it. I'm going balls deep, picking up Augmentation and Inferno of Creation, and also Weaking Mixture - Lightning. Elemental Obliteration is awesome. Regardless, Ravenloft is a bit of a gear check, much like WPM. Bigger HP totals, annoying immunities etc. Luckily I have more tools in my tool box, and aside from into the mists tossing me an unlucky rng with 2 crowned wisps that effectively one shot me, I'm rolling through nicely. I hate an invitation to dinner. Really I hate castle ravenloft. Its just too big. Too much running. I love the ambiance and the atmosphere, and its gorgeous, but dude. SSG pulls the preview just before I start sealed in amber.



    So overall? It was new and fun. Definitely a different kind of caster. In my mind there are three options, entirely due to the limited spell slots;

    Nuke. No real self buffs, not enough slots for em. Just enough slots to juggle in an "Oh ****" CC spell. This is what I leveled up with.

    Heal. Now you get self buffs. And heals. And SLA heals. And blindness/Knockdown immunity. And very decent crowd control. There was no grouping on Lam, everyone was doing there own thing.

    Thrower. Again, you get self buffs. All of them. You get the CC, which can be handy. A couple SLA's that don't seem to really work. And a poison imbue that is lackluster. I did try this when I hit 12, hit fred for a feat respec. Maybe if the SLA's worked? Maybe just not my style.


    I can see some real possibilities for multiclassing. Going up to 4 to get Int to hit/damage alongside some tasty low hanging fruit would benefit a rogue. Hell, going up to 15 Alch to get the heal admixture could let you do 1 fighter/4 Pally frontline healing tank with respectable CC.
    Last edited by Blase; 01-16-2020 at 08:40 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    So pay2win arti's get the upgraded elemental weapons, but f2p sorcs/wiz don't get upgraded stoneskin?

    Makes sense.

    /sarcasm

    Please pass the love to the other arcanes.
    Now arties are going to be even more meta than they are already. Given how they are a paid class though, it makes sense for them to be way more overpowered than the free wiz/sor classes. Arcanes desperately need a buff.

  6. #66
    Community Member MasterKernel's Avatar
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    Question

    And when you think Monk is the hardest class to understand, they give you this...

    1) I read this topic
    2) Try Alchemist on Lamannia
    3) Went back to the forum and reread the topic
    4) Try Alchemist on Lamannia
    5) Went back to the forum and reread the topic and the 3 Enhancement Trees' topics
    6) Try Alchemist on Lamannia while watching Strimtom playing the one

    I CAN'T GET THIS CLASS ! >_< Even the very basic things like : is it melee ? ranged ? spellcasater ?!

    Good job devs ! You've created the weirdest thing this game have ever had. :-\
    Last edited by MasterKernel; 01-17-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  7. #67
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by o2t4f View Post
    Now arties are going to be even more meta than they are already. Given how they are a paid class though, it makes sense for them to be way more overpowered than the free wiz/sor classes. Arcanes desperately need a buff.
    Arties aren't meta and haven't been meta for years if they ever were.

    Wizard and Sorcerer are doing just fine even though they are free classes.

    How are you playing a Wizard or Sorcerer currently and having enough trouble on them that you think they need a buff?
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  8. #68

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    My experiences with alchemist this preview - made a gnome bombardier/healer, and tried to run one quest each level up to 30 (mostly on norm, since that was all i could open, but did do some epics on hard & elite, all solo with hirelings):

    On normal, my impression was that the bombardier would significantly out-DPS a similarly specced & geared sorceror - even level 1 spells could still routinely one-shot kill "trash mobs" in quests as high as 8th level, and frequently even up to the mid teens. On higher difficulties, however, DPS dropped dramatically, apparently due largely to things making their saves very frequently (a spell that was typically doing 200-300 damage on a normal hit and crit for 1200+ would start doing "miss-5-20-miss-50" and crit occasionally for numbers in the low hundreds on hard; elite was even more dramatic - miss-miss-miss-5-miss-25, etc.). At 26th level or so, the red-named werewolf in Catacombs was nearly impossible to kill (died so many times all my gear broke), though that probably would have played very differently if I hadn't had aggro almost the whole fight (yes, alchemists are squishy - even at the start of the fight with full health, buffs, and no death penalty it could pretty much 2-shot me). Still, even without the deaths it wouldn't have been a quick fight - it just took a long time to whittle it down. Would be interesting to see a comparison of overall DPS on higher difficulty settings between an appropriately geared & specced bombardier with all the right past lives and a similarly built sorceror. My current impression is that the sorceror would easily out-DPS the bombardier (and maybe that's what's intended), but gathering that kind of data isn't my forte. I do hope the bombardier can at least hold its own against other second-tier ranged arcane DPS types (arcanotechnician might be a reasonable comparison)

    While the offensive spells & buffs worked very well for the most part (except for the dramatic drop in effectiveness at higher difficulties), I had a hard time getting much use out of the healing spells, especially restores. I could generally target myself or my hirelings reasonably well for the basic heals, but whenever I tried to remove a status, it never seemed to work. Not sure if it was a targeting issue or the spells are bugged, but overall it felt pretty disappointing.

    As for flavor & ease of play - I really enjoyed the feel of it. The spells had good range so as long as they were doing decent damage I could ignore the squishiness by killing most things before they closed to melee range, the visual effects were fun (goldskin is gratifyingly shiny, heh), and I liked the idea of some of the more unique spells (corrosive dust, iron shavings) - didn't get a chance to test the corrosive dust as much as I would have liked (would be interested to see how it works in the L19-20 Cannith quests), but it seemed pretty effective against the iron defenders in epic Catacombs. The iron shavings either didn't work very well or was much harder to target - seemed like I kept getting the "incorporeal" message against all the shadows in Catacombs. Still, I really like the idea of it, and hope it works better in the future.

    Wish I'd had time to similarly test the poison-specced halfling thrower I wanted to try, but time ran out. Maybe next preview

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
    I assume they put it in there so someone might actually try it as a pure class rather than just automatically splashing 2 rogue...

    I didn't see in the notes whether you can be centered while pot-tossing. Anyone try a alchemist-monk mix? (I'm having a vision of Batman...) Could Ninja Spy's poison stuff complement the venom-based potions?
    There is nothing on the notes about them being centered, and everything on them to imply that they are making sure this does not happen. All of the poison coatings and bonuses to damage seem to apply only to simple weapons. This rules out any possibility of Ninja Poison that is not a X Alchemist/5 Fighter/Y Monk. Five levels of Fighter will allow you to take the tier five Kensei enhancement "One with Blade" centering you in your *melee* focus weapon. This means that you cannot be centered with any thrown weapon as Vistani does not center you with throwing daggers.

  10. #70
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    Since there's a heal line, should empowered healing also be added to the feat list?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCamb02140 View Post
    There is nothing on the notes about them being centered, and everything on them to imply that they are making sure this does not happen. All of the poison coatings and bonuses to damage seem to apply only to simple weapons. This rules out any possibility of Ninja Poison that is not a X Alchemist/5 Fighter/Y Monk. Five levels of Fighter will allow you to take the tier five Kensei enhancement "One with Blade" centering you in your *melee* focus weapon. This means that you cannot be centered with any thrown weapon as Vistani does not center you with throwing daggers.
    Ok, thanks. Like some others, I'm still having trouble understanding exactly what potion-throwing is classified as, as opposed to the poison-coated simple throwing weapon playstyle. (Apologies, I wasn't able to get onto Lamannia to try it out. Still laughing that they expect good feedback on dozens of fundamental changes to the game in 2 days mid-work week). Are the potions just considered spells, so they don't equip anything in your hands, and so you could be centred in wraps, etc? If so, there's probably some goofy (but potentially fun) builds that mix monk melee with potion heals and buffs, or something more creative than I can manage at the moment.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin_of_Power View Post
    [BUG] Throwing arcs got wonky the further back I got from the kobolds. If you go back far enough they just shoot straight up in the air and are thus useless. I wonder if standing in the large area of the dojo and throwing into a smaller kobold area confuses the geometry engine.
    Not really a bug, and this seems like a good place to talk about how bottle-throwing spells work.

    When you have an enemy hard-targeted with a bottle-throwing spell (like Spellvial: Fire), there are two important things to note:
    • The bottles are affected by gravity.
    • Spell projectiles cast at a fixed(ish) speed, defined by the spell.


    The game then figures, since you have a target hard-targeted, that you're trying to hit that target. Since it knows your bottle is affected by gravity, it looks at the projectile speed for your bottle (defined by the spell), and figures out how high of an arc it has to huck it at to hit your target before it hits the ground.

    The further away from your target you are, the taller that arc has to be to hit your target before hitting the ground. That's why you're seeing arcs like that. This works most of the time, assuming your projectile isn't interrupted along the way by an object/wall/etc.

    As it goes, the Accelerate Spell metamagic helps ease this out a lot - It adds to the Projectile Speed after it gets taken from the spell. Since the projectile is traveling faster, it doesn't have to get thrown as high to hit your target.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  13. #73
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Not really a bug, and this seems like a good place to talk about how bottle-throwing spells work.

    When you have an enemy hard-targeted with a bottle-throwing spell (like Spellvial: Fire), there are two important things to note:
    • The bottles are affected by gravity.
    • Spell projectiles cast at a fixed(ish) speed, defined by the spell.


    The game then figures, since you have a target hard-targeted, that you're trying to hit that target. Since it knows your bottle is affected by gravity, it looks at the projectile speed for your bottle (defined by the spell), and figures out how high of an arc it has to huck it at to hit your target before it hits the ground.

    The further away from your target you are, the taller that arc has to be to hit your target before hitting the ground. That's why you're seeing arcs like that. This works most of the time, assuming your projectile isn't interrupted along the way by an object/wall/etc.

    As it goes, the Accelerate Spell metamagic helps ease this out a lot - It adds to the Projectile Speed after it gets taken from the spell. Since the projectile is traveling faster, it doesn't have to get thrown as high to hit your target.
    Yay! Steelstar explains trajectory physics!

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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Not really a bug, and this seems like a good place to talk about how bottle-throwing spells work.

    When you have an enemy hard-targeted with a bottle-throwing spell (like Spellvial: Fire), there are two important things to note:
    • The bottles are affected by gravity.
    • Spell projectiles cast at a fixed(ish) speed, defined by the spell.


    The game then figures, since you have a target hard-targeted, that you're trying to hit that target. Since it knows your bottle is affected by gravity, it looks at the projectile speed for your bottle (defined by the spell), and figures out how high of an arc it has to huck it at to hit your target before it hits the ground.

    The further away from your target you are, the taller that arc has to be to hit your target before hitting the ground. That's why you're seeing arcs like that. This works most of the time, assuming your projectile isn't interrupted along the way by an object/wall/etc.

    As it goes, the Accelerate Spell metamagic helps ease this out a lot - It adds to the Projectile Speed after it gets taken from the spell. Since the projectile is traveling faster, it doesn't have to get thrown as high to hit your target.
    So is the max range of the spell equivalent to the horizontal distance of the ballistic path at a 45 degree launch angle and the fixed projectile speed? Because there shouldnt ever be any reason to throw it "straight up" like the other guy was saying...45 degrees is the optimal angle for range on ballistic paths, anything higher will come up shorter. If you cant hit it at 45 degrees and a certain launch velocity, then its out of range.

    Also does Accelerate increase the max range for bottles, then? Because a faster launch velocity should increase the range, of course, not how fast it travels along the path...

  15. #75
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    What I wanted to add is this : On Korthos, both in the Wavecrest Tavern and outside, are NPCs able to give advice to magic users of every sort.

    I've forgotten the name of the NPCs inside the tavern, but what he said I did not forget . That he couldn't give advice to Alchemists.

    Outside, at one side of the dock, there's an NPC who is called "... the peerless", her first name begins with an M, but I've forgotten that part, and she is able to give advice to magic users as well.

    She hasn't however, dialog options for Alchemists - and I think for Warlocks neither.

    I think especially for newcomers it would be good if there was a new NPC entirely dedicated to Alchemist class, and having detsiled information (read : dialog options) to explain how the Alchemist's spell system works.

    If possible, I think, it would even be a good idea if there was some kind of special tutorial for the class like for Cannith Crafting. I don't know if that's feasible, thoggh.
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  16. #76
    Community Member Graskitch's Avatar
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    Default reaction state visual / project nemesis

    in regards to the colored reaction state circle that appears on the ground below the alchemist, does that mask the color circle that appear below the 3 characters receiving the elemental buff in project nemesis? I think the entire avatar of the players that receive the buff changes color, but was just wondering if the reaction state circle completely obscures the circle on the ground?

  17. #77

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    Is it by design or an oversight that Alchemist doesn't have a Cerulite spell for immunity to magic missiles?
    Last edited by Carpone; 01-18-2020 at 10:39 AM.
    Kobeyashi | Ying

  18. #78
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    I hope that that "spell state" circle around the feet of the character doesn't cause lag ...
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Is it by design or an oversight that Alchemist doesn't have a Cerulite spell for immunity to magic missiles?
    We hadn't designed a spell for that in Alchemist, but you can pick up Magic Missile immunity from Core 2 of Apothecary!
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  20. #80
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    I just wondered whether a potion of Ranged Power influences throwing vials of Alchemists ? Does a potion of Ranged Power influence Vial Of Sparks, for example ?
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

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