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  1. #1
    Community Member Fanaval's Avatar
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    Default Ruin, Greater ruin and Arcane pulse

    Hello.

    Ruin, Greater ruin and Arcane pulse are old feats/spells that was good when released but now, for a feat slot, they are very underpowered.

    Expecially Ruin and Greater ruin deal low damage for a 15 sec cooldown. Those feats/spells should be aligned in DPS to at least half match the DPS of a "no feat slot cost" damage dealing abilities of some DPS builds.

    Thanks.
    Fanaval Turinaur of Cannith

    Racial Completionist; Triple Epic Completionist; Heroic Completionist.

  2. #2
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanaval View Post
    Hello.

    Ruin, Greater ruin and Arcane pulse are old feats/spells that was good when released but now, for a feat slot, they are very underpowered.

    Expecially Ruin and Greater ruin deal low damage for a 15 sec cooldown. Those feats/spells should be aligned in DPS to at least half match the DPS of a "no feat slot cost" damage dealing abilities of some DPS builds.

    Thanks.
    Does the Epic metamagic feat (Intensify Spell) affect those powers? If not, it should. That would certainly help.
    Last edited by Arkat; 01-13-2020 at 03:30 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    They do but don't really scale properly

    Only wizies get anything to help force damage mok stuffs

    Almost all the epic caster feats are junk not sure but guessing same goes for melees too
    Damonz Cannith

  4. #4
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    Ruin was a bad option on the Tabletop because it just did some damage at a point where characters would be commonly using Save-or-Die spells like Destruction and Finger of Death, and they caused 100% Hit Point Damage regardless of target HP.

    Ruin in DDO is #1 a late game Epic Feat with high level requirement #2 costs a Feat slot just to unlock. #3 has a very high Spell Point cost #4 does not benefit from Metamagics without a SP increase. #5 has a long cooldown #6 Only hits a single enemy.

    Untyped damage with No Save or Resistance is tempting, but its still probably a trap.
    =====================================
    Based on how DDO works most Feats are bad as DDO instead focuses on the Enhancement Trees for most of your character powers.

    Epic Feats read off as less important than Epic Destinies.

  5. #5
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    Ya but theres still only 1 single decent caster ed and that only helps elemental dps since they had to nerf shiradi for ranged only

    And if you can't brute force the dcs there goes the dps and ea should be the light evokers destiny but its so lame at this point its not even funny

    Same goes for radiance and resonance not enough to boost it to be viable

    And most of the sorcs power comes from gear and ed since they still only have the 1 single outdated tree
    Damonz Cannith

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanaval View Post
    Hello.

    Ruin, Greater ruin and Arcane pulse are old feats/spells that was good when released but now, for a feat slot, they are very underpowered.

    Expecially Ruin and Greater ruin deal low damage for a 15 sec cooldown. Those feats/spells should be aligned in DPS to at least half match the DPS of a "no feat slot cost" damage dealing abilities of some DPS builds.

    Thanks.
    yes they are wasted features at the moment.
    pls improve them
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  7. #7
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr420247 View Post
    Ya but theres still only 1 single decent caster ed and that only helps elemental dps since they had to nerf shiradi for ranged only

    And if you can't brute force the dcs there goes the dps and ea should be the light evokers destiny but its so lame at this point its not even funny

    Same goes for radiance and resonance not enough to boost it to be viable

    And most of the sorcs power comes from gear and ed since they still only have the 1 single outdated tree
    Gonna disagree with you there, bud.

    Both Magister and Draconic are excellent for elemental DPS. They each have slightly different styles, but they're both great.
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  8. #8
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    Maj is the DC tree hands down dps not even close to DRAC

    And its mostly force dps in Maj im sure the 1 tier 5 is ok if any takes it instead of stats
    Damonz Cannith

  9. #9
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    I have a guildy who uses Ruin/GRuin and built for Arcane Pulse; with Otto's 5-piece you can use them with full metamagic 2x every 3 minutes, which helps a lot as far as SP efficiency

    For Arcane Pulse, you only need metas on the last stack - so 4x cheap ones, then Otto's and throw the 5th plus Ruin/GRuin.

    I'm not saying they couldn't use a buff, I'm just saying they have some solid niche usage still

    Quote Originally Posted by mr420247 View Post
    Maj is the DC tree hands down dps not even close to DRAC

    And its mostly force dps in Maj im sure the 1 tier 5 is ok if any takes it instead of stats
    If you're meaning the T6 Arcane Tempest, I definitely use it on my Magister. It's pretty great for constructs, undead, bosses, w/e especially being force damage.
    Last edited by SpartanKiller13; 01-14-2020 at 04:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  10. #10
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Ideally Ruin feats were boosted by Transmutation spell levels ( much like Disintegrate). For cooldown double of Disintegrate seems fine ~10 seconds, that alone is a nice buff, a cost 50R / 100GR spell points seems alright as well.

  11. #11
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    I just hurl n frog em faster oh ya n tons cheaper
    Last edited by mr420247; 01-13-2020 at 05:08 PM.
    Damonz Cannith

  12. #12
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    I actually throw all 3 of these into my spell rotation for end bosses, but only when I don't have to worry about running out of mana. In R1, I hit for about 20k with Greater Ruin and 10k with regular Ruin every 15s... and 3k every 2 seconds with full stacks of Arcane pulse (without applying debuffs). This is roughly 180k per minute or 3k/s which helps my overall damage output with bosses. These three spells represent roughly 15-20% of my boss DPS... which is primarily DoT based. I can CC/clear trash without issue, so boss DPS is a big deal for me.

    Sure, I wish mana cost was less... and I wish there was a source of "enhanced" force spell power like other spell powers (Burnscar Sash for fire/acid, Silverthread Belt for null/positive, etc) ....and I wish I could apply meta magics for free. However, if I think from the perspective of game balance, these spells are probably close to where they ought to be if we consider that they're no-save spells and very few mobs (if any?) have force absorption.

    As the original class spells get further outdated by higher and harder hitting epic level spells/SLAs that include character level in their DCs, I find these 3 spells are helping to keep my non-sorceror caster build stay competitive in end game. There's nothing else I could really do with those feats to increase my damage output by 15-20%. Intensify is the only thing that I see that could possibly come close in end game, but spell power is so high now, that 75spell power would only represent a 6'ish % overall increase on my main spell power (fire/water) or 10% for a non-standard spell power. That said, I have enough epic feats to do Intensify+Ruin+GreaterRuin+Wellspring if I chose to ignore DCs a bit more.

    My closing thought on this - I think we all have sticker shock from these 3 spells. The cost of 3 feats + 75/150mana without meta magics is a hard pill to swallow. As the highest mana cost spell in the game, you can't be blamed for expecting bigger damage when compared to Energy Burst or Draconic Breath. However for caster builds, what else are you going to purchase with 3 feats that improves your DPS more than these spells? There is no other option for my build. I think we'll have a hard time constructing a strong enough argument to convince the devs to move the needle on these spells... but I would absolutely love to be wrong!
    Last edited by Tchtutax; 01-13-2020 at 05:57 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    The way I see it, those three epic spells/feats are extensions of the evocation/force archmage build for wizards. It's a super-specialized build.
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  14. #14
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    It is thats the prob same w frog is only wis based

    No balance any more or radiance light evokers or sonic bards
    Damonz Cannith

  15. #15
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    Throw Hellball on the list of spells that badly need an update.
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  16. #16
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    And Dark fire why would devs want any to play a drow i know
    Damonz Cannith

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    The way I see it, those three epic spells/feats are extensions of the evocation/force archmage build for wizards. It's a super-specialized build.
    Archmage last updated 2010. Have I ever seen an archmage? Not since about 2015 and only because shiradi was popular for a bit.
    Last edited by capsela; 01-13-2020 at 07:21 PM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    Archmage last updated 2010. Have I ever seen an archmage? Not since about 2015 and only because shiradi was popular for a bit.
    I have an Archmage evoker that i sometimes play, made it when MoK feat was introduced. It is definitely the highest hitpower caster build ( aside maybe some weird shiradi mixture), but takes a lot of micro with timing, so not as easy and zergy as a Sorcerer.

    Honestly i didnt like Archmage becoming another spammy casters, I would have liked a School Specialist Mage that ties straight into Magister later, aka not a DPS-er build. After the spell dice pass i think they dont really need the spammy caster aspect onward, but thats just my opinion.

  19. #19
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tchtutax View Post
    I actually throw all 3 of these into my spell rotation for end bosses, but only when I don't have to worry about running out of mana.

    My closing thought on this - I think we all have sticker shock from these 3 spells. The cost of 3 feats + 75/150mana without meta magics is a hard pill to swallow
    Otto's 5-piece, get your free fully metamagic'ed uses today can even be a swap item, if you have the SXP. Twice every three minutes if you grab both feats.
    Last edited by SpartanKiller13; 01-14-2020 at 04:36 PM.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Otto's 5-piece, get your free fully metamagic'ed uses today can even be a swap item, if you have the SXP. Every minute via Magister, once every three via Wellspring.
    I actually hadn't considered that here, good suggestion. I also think you're telling me that Arcane Spellsurge in Magister triggers the Otto's 10s no-mana? Is that right? Wiki says Arcane Insight + Wellspring...

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