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  1. #1
    Community Member Vinven's Avatar
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    Default Grouping with others is not easy as a newbie.

    You find a group, and they expect you to know exactly where to go to enter the dungeon, where everything is in the dungeon, etc.

    Also everyone just runs full speed getting way ahead of you, instant killing everything, so that you never even get to swing your sword at a monster.

    It's kind of frustrating. I don't know the dungeons well enough to solo most of them, also soloing is kind of boring and I end up getting lost easy.

    I spent like half an hour trying to find a dungeon entrance in a huge open zone, with them saying go west or south etc meanwhile the dungeon is already done.

    And there are so many quests people are doing which is just running around in maze like areas for an hour where I just stand there feeling useless.

    Everyone is doing reaper 1 and 2+ and so my attacks and spells feel completely ineffective and I randomly die instantly all the time from surprise reapers.

    Sorry just some ranting I needed to get out.

  2. #2
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    You're quite right and your ranting is justified. The game is populated by multiple cliques of people who have played the game for years. Due to the True Resurrection element of the game you can't even compete with these players until you have a good few years of grinding under your belt. It's tough and I don't know what the solution is, sorry.

  3. #3
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    I totally get where you are coming from. Ive played for years and have amassed past lives and a decent amount of reaper points, so plowing through dungeons in s fully loaded and experienced group is easy for me. What you probably should realize is that r1 and r2 are usually used for people with the same type of background that i come from and that they are usually on xp pots, hence the blazing speed they want to do the dungeon. There are definitely cliques. You have your raiders that stay at 30, your TR groups (those speedy pugs that fly through dungeons, your guildy groups that only run with their guilds, and your rxp runners, who run high reapers for rxp, ans only cause they can.

    Newbies have a tough time fitting in here nowadays. Everyone assumes you fit into one of the categories above, but you may not, and veteran players sometimes get impatient. I would put an lfm up asking for help and stating you are new and need help understanding the dungeon. You will probably get a few people that are willing to help out, and may even find a guild this way.

    Good luck to you!

    Nico

  4. #4
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    I do agree playerbase is a bit unfriendly nowadays and i could give few more examples. Last days im farming some favor and it's pretty hard to find someone who will join party just for 10 seconds to open quest on elite, sometimes i wait hour or two to find someone to open it (yeah, i could run n/h/e, but honestly i prefer to read a book and leave ddo in background rather than waste time doing the same stuff 3 times). And i still remember when there was no reset button on wilderness and there was a lot of people joining other ppl party just to reset stance for them. But honestly i don't think finding entrance is so hard.

    Anyway, even if you dont know wilderness and you haven't discovered anything you got entrances marked on blank map and for most of the quests path is pretty simple and straightforward (there're few exceptions like CoF). In quest journal there's always pointed out where to "enter" so just look for correct place on map and run there. My experience tells me usually people not being able to find entrance are those too lazy to actually make some effort to find it. When i'm buying new pack i always run it alone for a first time, just to learn it. If you're not able to solo at level, run heroic elite with lvl 30 character. And you can always open wiki page and look for path, or at least thats what i would do if i wouldn't have any clue where to go.

    My personal best is guy lost for almost hour in gianthold wild. There were people running inches from him, there were people trying to guide him and he ignored all of them and just run random directions, then blamed party for being unhelpful.

    On the other hand common mistake is not admitting you're new. I saw many people messing up quests cause they didnt knew them and at the end admitting they didn't knew it. If you say you're new usually nobody will give you any important duty, so you can just follow the others and watch what is happening. Might be a bit boring, but if you don't know anything it's pretty obvious nobody will give you important job, so there're two options for you: tag along or run alone once or twice to learn it. It's like driving a car - either you know how to drive or you have theoretical knowledge and you can learn with instructor. But if you're too lazy to learn how to drive and too lazy too learn theory before trying - nobody will let you drive a car and it's just entirely on you.

    Not being able to swing a sword at mob is something you won't be able to avoid. 90% of players in game are vets and there's no way for you to catch up with them in lower reaper content and in higher reaper content (if you're new) you'll die 10 times before you'll get close enough to mob to swing your sword. You might try to bring friends to game or look for static 1st life group, but if you use in game grouping - no way to avoid that.

  5. #5
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    DDO has evolved into little more than a patreon account. They have no interest in bringing in or catering to new players. They have a set number of addicted players with enough money to keep them going, probably more akin to a web-cam stripper actually and her 'kings of the room'. Since there is no end game or really any cohesive story concept, they have established an ever growing set of ways to keep players grinding sideways for ego and more ego. A new player can't possibly jump into this game and expect most playing it still to empathize, much less understand that it takes a great deal of reading and effort to know the mechanics of the game especially when many of the rules go unspoken except for some random forum post buried in some random section years ago and a wiki that is terribly out of date. I've likened this game to getting a doctorate in the level of information you need to know and the difficulty it is to acquire. And since the rules constantly change it is hard to tell what is what unless you actually play the game for a decade and feel it like a second skin.

    So good luck and run far away from this game if you can if you want to actually get anywhere. Their business model seems based on driving their players insane and invest too much time to leave.

  6. #6
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    You find a group, and they expect you to know exactly where to go to enter the dungeon, where everything is in the dungeon, etc.

    Also everyone just runs full speed getting way ahead of you, instant killing everything, so that you never even get to swing your sword at a monster.

    It's kind of frustrating. I don't know the dungeons well enough to solo most of them, also soloing is kind of boring and I end up getting lost easy.

    I spent like half an hour trying to find a dungeon entrance in a huge open zone, with them saying go west or south etc meanwhile the dungeon is already done.

    And there are so many quests people are doing which is just running around in maze like areas for an hour where I just stand there feeling useless.

    Everyone is doing reaper 1 and 2+ and so my attacks and spells feel completely ineffective and I randomly die instantly all the time from surprise reapers.

    Sorry just some ranting I needed to get out.
    All true.

    But it is a pretty awesome game if you can find some people to play with at about your same level.

    Learning where those details about the dungeons is the most fun; where to go, what to do, how to finish, the best way to stay alive, hidden optionals. Figuring those things out for myself, and with my friends who didn't know everything, was some of the most fun parts of this game for me early on and I miss it. I remember finding the skeletal mage option in Sacrifices and just being awed that I had run the quest so many times and didn't even know it was there. I absolutely NEVER miss that optional to this day when I run that quest.

    Unfortunately, most of those who have been around for a long time and have run those quests so many times that they are considered boring and a nuisance. These dungeons are something to be gotten through as fast as possible for the biggest XP/second ratio.

    The game is all about zerging the most XP in the shortest amount of time. It's about learning where to stand and not get killed while you wipe out the monsters and which monsters you can just run past.

    The wonder of Dungeons and Dragons is gone for those people and it is really and truly all about being the most powerful being in existence.

    I often solo the game and when I do I take my time, smell the flowers, and usually do all of the optionals. It is the only way I can actually enjoy the game anymore.

    So, your not alone in your criticisms. Many of us older players feel the same on a lot of the things you list. A lot of the older players who feel like I do have stopped playing for those very reasons.

    But my suggestion to you would be to put up a party request (Looking for More or LFM) to find a newbie friendly guild and try to play with newer players only. Others can probably give you advice to speed you along, but you will be missing 90% of what D&D is all about, the exploration and the wonder, if you don't learn the ins and outs yourself.

    Of course if you just want to hang out with the most advanced players and be the most powerful being in existence, then get ready to learn the real meaning of zerg and, in my opinion, true boredom.

    It is a great game and really captures the essence of D&D when you are new.
    Last edited by TedSandyman; 01-12-2020 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Rauven's Avatar
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    Vinven, if you're on the Cannith server send me a message. I don't mind going slow, showing people the way, and I generally don't play reaper (I like to play stealthy characters and SSG doesn't support stealth in reaper).

  8. #8
    Community Member Crazeyred's Avatar
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    Smile Same Here..

    I have the same issue I'm on Thelanis have 21 toons different levels .. Was away from the game just at 5 years my 2 mains are in a nice guild but I also end up Solo with hirelings.. But I also have toons on every server..
    Happy Gaming..

  9. #9
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    You find a group, and they expect you to know exactly where to go to enter the dungeon, where everything is in the dungeon, etc.

    Also everyone just runs full speed getting way ahead of you, instant killing everything, so that you never even get to swing your sword at a monster.
    ...
    also soloing is kind of boring and I end up getting lost easy.
    ...
    I spent like half an hour trying to find a dungeon entrance in a huge open zone, with them saying go west or south etc meanwhile the dungeon is already done.

    And there are so many quests people are doing which is just running around in maze like areas for an hour where I just stand there feeling useless.

    Everyone is doing reaper 1 and 2+ and so my attacks and spells feel completely ineffective and I randomly die instantly all the time from surprise reapers.
    ...
    It's kind of frustrating.
    You are correct that all those things happen, and are frustrating.

    If you're careful about what kind of groups you join, you can avoid some of this. Sadly, DDO's player base isn't what it once was, so your options aren't huge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    I don't know the dungeons well enough to solo most of them
    This, though, I have to disagree with. You don't need to know them already. Being forced to figure them out on your own is a great way to learn them! Once you learn them, then you'd have a lot less trouble finding quests, keeping up in quests, just standing around while others solve mazes/puzzles in quests; instead you'd get there sooner, know where to go, and know how to help.

    People talk about the power gap between new characters and multi-TR-ed characters, and it certainly does exist. But the knowledge gap between new players and players who have gained extensive game knowledge is much more significant most of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  10. #10
    Community Member Mofus's Avatar
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    It can be frustrating for sure, you should try to join a guild that has people who are willing to show you the ropes. Also, it's a good idea to do a little research before going into areas you are not familiar with such as slayer zones with quests. The ddo wiki is a good place to do the research. They have maps and info about the quests. I used to keep a tablet handy so that I could look things up while I played. Worst case scenario, explore those areas on your own with a hireling so that you can get familiar with the terrain.DDo is going on what 14 years now, people who have been playing for years take it for granted that everyone else has as well. Maybe let people know you are new to the game when you hit their lfm and that you need some help getting to the quest. Any way's, welcome to the game and I hope you have an enjoyable time here.
    Darkwinn, Milkus, Terismina, Gothmawg, Dreylock, Drunarah, Bigbhamboo, etc on Sarlona / Brixlynn, Mofus, Curgoth, Deidlit, etc on Ghalanda.

  11. #11
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    You find a group, and they expect you to know exactly where to go to enter the dungeon, where everything is in the dungeon, etc.

    Also everyone just runs full speed getting way ahead of you, instant killing everything, so that you never even get to swing your sword at a monster.

    It's kind of frustrating. I don't know the dungeons well enough to solo most of them, also soloing is kind of boring and I end up getting lost easy.

    I spent like half an hour trying to find a dungeon entrance in a huge open zone, with them saying go west or south etc meanwhile the dungeon is already done.

    And there are so many quests people are doing which is just running around in maze like areas for an hour where I just stand there feeling useless.

    Everyone is doing reaper 1 and 2+ and so my attacks and spells feel completely ineffective and I randomly die instantly all the time from surprise reapers.

    Sorry just some ranting I needed to get out.
    What server are you on?

  12. #12
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post

    People talk about the power gap between new characters and multi-TR-ed characters, and it certainly does exist. But the knowledge gap between new players and players who have gained extensive game knowledge is much more significant most of the time.
    And very often people don't even TRY to overcome it. They'd rather complain than learn.

    I play with newbies all the time--I made a guild for newbies to join on Thelanis--and the difference between people who make an effort and people who don't is VERY clear and ABSOLUTELY night-and-day. With Hardcore running down I'm also running around tons of baby toons that have no past lives or anything like that, and most of them do just fine. Heck, I literally started a f2p account to do a show on playing the game completely f2p and I was out-killing long-term vets in Reaper quests before I'd finished my FIRST life. Knowledge is EVERYTHING in this game.

    Instead of running around the wilderness lost and making people give you instructions while they wait for you, have you tried *looking up the map online*? Have you considered familiarizing yourself with the public areas so you don't have to be TOLD where everything is? You are on a computer that has internet access. There is not one single thing about this game that is a secret. It's all EASILY accesible.

    Yeah, it's hard for newbies to find groups--because if your playstyle is to turn your brain off and dump all responsibility for knowing what the heck is going on on other people, the experienced players will avoid you like the plague. They're here to have fun in their free time, not babysit you while you flop around and complain that nobody is doing your thinking for you.

    If people aren't joining your groups, use that time to:

    1. Visit every public area in the game and learn how they connect.
    2. Run wilderness exploration areas to find all the explorers. Once you find all of them, the map will be perma-cleared and you'll be able to see where you're going.
    3. Learn how to use the Adventure Log (the L button by default) to highlight a quest so that the entrance door will flash.

    I've had three family members join this game cold (no clue where anything was or how ANYTHING in the game worked) and all of them could find their way to quests without any particular difficulty within the first week. Granted, it's easier if you've got a guild airship to act as a hub, but the game really just ain't that big.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 01-12-2020 at 04:38 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loholt-UK View Post
    You're quite right and your ranting is justified. The game is populated by multiple cliques of people who have played the game for years. Due to the True Resurrection element of the game you can't even compete with these players until you have a good few years of grinding under your belt. It's tough and I don't know what the solution is, sorry.
    Do not be disheartened by this! While the gap between old players and new is still quite large, it has been SIGNIFICANTLY reduced lately.

    The old difference used to be in raw power - people with dozens of past lives would be far stronger than your first life.

    Now, a FIRST-LIFE character can do epic elite raiding at level cap. All you need is good gear... which, unfortunately requires access to newer content. I still don't like that "you have to own Ravenloft, or Sharn" is the answer... but it's better than needing 12 years to catch up with the veterans.

    Gear will close 75% of the power gap between you and other players. The rest is all due to knowledge. You're right... these players have such knowledge of the quests, that it's like muscle memory. But you're also right in saying it's more fun to player with others than alone! Here's what I've done to help with this problem:

    Create an lfm stating explicitly "(Normal/Hard/Elite) Runs, No zerging! All welcome". Try to group with other new players. Invite others you see, join lfms below reaper difficulty, etc. It REALLY helps if you can find a welcoming guild with many players willing to join you for more casual, fun content.

  14. #14
    Community Member Vinven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    What server are you on?
    Khyber, I am on Khyber.

  15. #15

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    when you join groups like that, they are hosting the lfm to help you, knowing that you are practically piking. In a way, it is nice of them. Let them know you are new and lost.

    If you post your own lfm stating that you are new, and need help but want to take the quest slowly, you might get other new players or emiritus vets
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (4), Naerfelka (21)


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    when you join groups like that, they are hosting the lfm to help you, knowing that you are practically piking. In a way, it is nice of them. Let them know you are new and lost.

    If you post your own lfm stating that you are new, and need help but want to take the quest slowly, you might get other new players or emiritus vets

    Pretty much this.

    This game is old. It has never had the advertisement it should. New players have ALWAYS been rare, except immediately after it went F2P.

    If you don't make it known that you are new, people will assume you're not. If someone joins one of my LFMs, about the most they can expect is a share and a link to ddowiki if they need help finding the quest. I'm already in progress, and don't have the time or patience to try to Help Desk describe where to go so you can run out to Chains of Flame.

    As others have said, don't feel obligated to run on Reaper like the vets do. Learn the quest on casual if you have to. Next time you run that quest, you'll be much more prepared and able to contribute more. You'll still get vastly out killed by vets with literally hundreds of past lives and best in slot gear. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done about that other than not run with these power toons.

  17. #17
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    You find a group, and they expect you to know exactly where to go to enter the dungeon, where everything is in the dungeon, etc.

    Also everyone just runs full speed getting way ahead of you, instant killing everything, so that you never even get to swing your sword at a monster.

    It's kind of frustrating. I don't know the dungeons well enough to solo most of them, also soloing is kind of boring and I end up getting lost easy.

    I spent like half an hour trying to find a dungeon entrance in a huge open zone, with them saying go west or south etc meanwhile the dungeon is already done.

    And there are so many quests people are doing which is just running around in maze like areas for an hour where I just stand there feeling useless.

    Everyone is doing reaper 1 and 2+ and so my attacks and spells feel completely ineffective and I randomly die instantly all the time from surprise reapers.

    Sorry just some ranting I needed to get out.
    My advice is to initially play the game solo or with friends who are also new to the game. The play experience will be much better. Ask questions here when you want tips or builds.

    You can post your server if you are looking for someone to slow down and run at your pace.
    - inactive player -

  18. #18
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinven View Post
    Khyber, I am on Khyber.
    Rats, I don't have any toons there. If you had toons on Orien, I'd suggest that you contact me on Tarlona there, I have to log her everyday to break down gear for crafting, so I'd see a mail at some point during the day, and could invite you to our newbie friendly guild, and if need be, roll a toon to help you out.

  19. #19
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    The OP has many valid points.

    Reapers were a mistake.

    It would have been FAR BETTER to have spent the time creating
    randomness and physical diversity (random map changes), (monster
    and trap changes) in each dungeon run to give each dungeon
    more play-ability and challenge.

    Reapers were laziness and they have completely changed the base game
    game doing A LOT more harm than good.

    Reapers reinforce a very small number of builds being 'viable', and
    demand heavy meta-gaming (complete knowledge of dungeon layout
    in advance). It also promotes, to some extent, zerging and kiting
    EVERYTHING.

    It basically turned Dungeons and Dragons Online into
    Kite and Zerg Online.

    Group play in game will never improve until Reapers is REPLACED
    with a better system.
    Planescape City of Doors for DDO endgame. Even dying in certain places can create new adventures.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I understand the OPs point of view. I also agree finding groups of people that have similar goals improves the experience.

    Now, for me the problem with Reaper is that it is an increase in XP/Min when you reach that point.

    Reaper was not designed for new players it was designed for those that have some experience under their belt.

    -----
    Now it is important to communicate when you join a party that you are new. This can help. The OPs experience of still searching for a quest 30 minutes after joining seems like a bad experience. As others have pointed out sometimes running these in a group of friends the first time helps because you get to experience the quest. There are guilds out there that can help with this experience.

    Also, as a new player don't be deterred running a quest on the Normal difficulty. Also, don't be afraid to put up an LFM, use the memo to indicate you are a new player looking for others "learning" quests. This could even get you linked up with other new players.

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