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  1. #1
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Default Where does SSG stand on fixing the crippling lag

    Lat week Cocomajob stated that they made headway with the patch before the holidays to alleviate the crippling lag in the game and that only 1 restart per week was necessary.

    I and a lot of the people i run with in high skull reapers and raids feel that this is false and currently running higher difficulty raids is next to impossible without multiple restarts per week (at least 3 Monday, Wednesday, & Friday). This would give us 12-18 hours before server lag kicks into overdrive and prevents raiding. Our guild has cut back on difficulty, I know of one guild that cancelled raiding altogether on their raid day to to lag.

    The silence is deafening from SSG, for an issue that has been going on for the better part of 2 + months, we deserve updates / timelines on what is happening. While I have always tolerated some form of lag, this is insane to the point the game is no longer fun.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    I think the fact that the game requires weekly restarts speaks for itself.

    My opinion? They have no idea what's going on or how to fix it.
    Actuality? Not cost-effective to fix. Nobody on their team knowledgeable enough. Fear of breaking something else. Anyone's guess really.
    Last edited by Clemeit; 01-11-2020 at 02:34 PM.

  3. #3
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    I'm guessing their stance is "for it"

  4. #4
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    It'll be amazing how much the lag clears up when 70% of the server aren't running inquisitives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  5. #5
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    It'll be amazing how much the lag clears up when 70% of the server aren't running inquisitives.
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  6. #6

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    We put out a patch before the Holidays that alleviated a significant source of lag (there is and will never will be one single source of lag), an issue that caused server crashes if reboots were not handled within a specific timeframe. As that is no longer a concern, we now need to gather + analyze server performance data with a week between restarts - Something we can't do without having a week between restarts.

    We are literally always looking into and working on alleviating sources of lag. When we have specific fixes that we're confident will have tangible impacts on the game in a state where they're likely to go Live, we'll make sure you know, as we did with the last major one.

    (tl;dr silence isn't us ignoring it, it's that the things we're working on aren't ready to be shown yet.)
    Last edited by Steelstar; 01-11-2020 at 03:58 PM.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
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    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  7. #7
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    It'll be amazing how much the lag clears up when 70% of the server aren't running inquisitives.
    At least we don't have Druid/Monk throwers.

    Oh my goodness that was fun while it lasted. And it was also INSANE for causing lag.
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  8. #8
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Many lag sources are content specific, eg: Baba raid totem shadows are nearly always lagging out to different degree. Today Soul Survivor end room when the dogs are released lag wiped us, again, this is relatively common. Something could be done with these quests. Both instances were full party today, and they had full stop lag.

  9. #9
    Community Member RTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We put out a patch before the Holidays that alleviated a significant source of lag (there is and will never will be one single source of lag), an issue that caused server crashes if reboots were not handled within a specific timeframe. As that is no longer a concern, we now need to gather + analyze server performance data with a week between restarts - Something we can't do without having a week between restarts.

    We are literally always looking into and working on alleviating sources of lag. When we have specific fixes that we're confident will have tangible impacts on the game in a state where they're likely to go Live, we'll make sure you know, as we did with the last major one.

    (tl;dr silence isn't us ignoring it, it's that the things we're working on aren't ready to be shown yet.)
    We've been on the TR train for a while and lag has been significantly better since the patch. That's not to say there isn't lag and some of it isn't longstanding, but the big increase in lag seems to be quite a bit better for things we're running on TR (usually R4-R7). Can't speak to raids as we haven't been staying at cap to run them. Thanks for the improvement (and keep them coming!).

  10. #10
    Community Member lifestaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We put out a patch before the Holidays that alleviated a significant source of lag (there is and will never will be one single source of lag), an issue that caused server crashes if reboots were not handled within a specific timeframe. As that is no longer a concern, we now need to gather + analyze server performance data with a week between restarts - Something we can't do without having a week between restarts.
    So weekly restarts on Wednesdays was to collect data between shutdowns. Okay.... Why did you not say that in the restart thread? Why bring it up 4 days after when the lag hits as expected? I fail to understand why this was not said earlier. I gathered from the other thread that the restart required problem was addressed and 1 a week should be fine, and if it is not then you would look into it later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    This is currently planned to be the only weekly restart going forward. We believe work done before the holidays will have allowed us to reduce back to a single weekly restart without endangering server performance back to unacceptable levels. We will monitor the effect this has over the next few weeks.
    Figured to post the post to stop you from asking where was it said. Would it have been so hard to say it then that you want to gather data for a week or two to help identify possible causes. It is the same amount of time as normal for lag to hit and make raiding a joke. I don't think the cause was addressed and think a restart is needed. IF data must be collected for a week, then you have to figure out something for all of us who want to play and can't because your game is not working correctly. If the service people pay for is trash, you have a band-aid fix you know works but refuse to apply it due to data collection, then you should be informing people about it prior, and offering something to people as an apology for your failure of service. Transparency like that will keep people happy, and might help your very damaged company image. Trust from a provider is important, stop abusing it because you can't admit to being wrong.
    Last edited by lifestaker; 01-11-2020 at 08:05 PM.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by lifestaker View Post
    So weekly restarts on Wednesdays was to collect data between shutdowns.
    No, that's not what I said at all.

    The twice-a-week restart schedule was in place to prevent a particular issue in the game that was causing a particular form of severe lag followed by eventual server crashes. We've applied a fix for that bug. As that bug no longer appears to be an issue, everything Coco said in that quote applies: This is currently planned to be the only weekly restart going forward. We believe work done before the holidays will have allowed us to reduce back to a single weekly restart without endangering server performance back to unacceptable levels. We will monitor the effect this has over the next few weeks.

    Monitoring that effect - by having week-long intervals between restarts - will give us data on what is still causing performance issues in the long term.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  12. #12
    Community Member lifestaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifestaker View Post
    So weekly restarts on Wednesdays was to collect data between shutdowns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    No, that's not what I said at all.

    Monitoring that effect - by having week-long intervals between restarts - will give us data on what is still causing performance issues in the long term.


    so let me understand what you are saying...
    you are saying a week long interval between restart will give you data on the lag...
    and you are also saying that the week long interval between restarts is not to collect data on lag...

    Sorry if I seem confused by this statement of yours. Either the weekly restart is for data collection between shutdowns or it is not.
    I would have a sig, but Someone might be offended by it so I will just list characters.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifestaker View Post
    so let me understand what you are saying...
    you are saying a week long interval between restart will give you data on the lag...
    and you are also saying that the week long interval between restarts is not to collect data on lag...

    Sorry if I seem confused by this statement of yours. Either the weekly restart is for data collection between shutdowns or it is not.
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  14. #14
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Lifestaker, it sounds like you're trying to say that the only reason for the restart is for data collection regarding lag. I have a feeling that there are many other reasons for the restart, and data collection about lag is something that is always happening and for the specific data that is currently desired, the weekly instead of twice a week restart will simply help with it. That does not mean it was THE REASON for the weekly restart.

  15. #15
    Community Member lifestaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryxnr View Post
    Lifestaker, it sounds like you're trying to say that the only reason for the restart is for data collection regarding lag.
    ...
    Lag is caused by performance issues that they have not identified. I am not saying that it is their only reason for making a restart a weekly, but THEY are saying it is A reason.
    Thank you for showing me why I don't use these forums. Please catch up on reading the argument prior to attacking the guy asking for an explanation. Please enjoy some light reading, because I am done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Monitoring that effect - by having week-long intervals between restarts - will give us data on what is still causing performance issues in the long term.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Clemeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    ...without endangering server performance back to unacceptable levels.
    That's subjective. I'd say we're already (or still, rather) at unacceptable levels. Anyways, thanks for providing feedback to the community. Silence is often perceived to be worse than inaction.

    I do kinda get this feeling that the dialogue goes something like:
    Community: "We demand feedback!"
    Developers: *gives feedback*
    Community: "Unacceptable!"

  17. #17
    Founder Zengar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifestaker View Post
    so let me understand what you are saying...
    you are saying a week long interval between restart will give you data on the lag...
    and you are also saying that the week long interval between restarts is not to collect data on lag...

    Sorry if I seem confused by this statement of yours. Either the weekly restart is for data collection between shutdowns or it is not.
    Weekly server restarts to clear up any accumulated garbage data and allow time for hardware maintenance were simply an assumed thing back when this game was first created. What Steelstar was saying is that the twice weekly restarts, which were due to a particular bug, were preventing them from collecting their usual data on other sources of lag, and now that they are back to the normal schedule they can return to collecting data.

    Correlation, not causation, as a statistician would put it.

  18. #18
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Dev: posts an explanation with some ambiguity
    Poster 1: Hey Dev, are you saying this?
    Poster 2: Hey Poster 1, are you saying this? Here's a possible alternate interpretation.
    Poster 1: How dare you attack me!
    Poster 2: Wut?

    ------------------

    Having a different perspective or opinion is not assault. Neither is trying to fill in the gaps with your own thoughts. Likewise, thanks for reminding me why I also don't like posting often on forums.
    Last edited by vryxnr; 01-12-2020 at 12:23 AM.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    At least we don't have Druid/Monk throwers.

    Oh my goodness that was fun while it lasted. And it was also INSANE for causing lag.
    FPS lock lag =/= Server lag

    Same story with Inquisitives.

  20. #20
    Community Member Michaelaz2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    It'll be amazing how much the lag clears up when 70% of the server aren't running inquisitives.
    You must be new here , Laughs in 2 weapon fighting nerfs from 10+ years ago , fact is gaming engine and code is so broken they dont know how
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