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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    What I notice is that people write that Inquisitive is overpowered - but they never seem to stop playing it.

    I just wish people were playing more fun builds, and not so much extremely maximized builds.

    The people complaining about Inqui, generally, are not the ones who are playing it. They're complaining because other players are suddenly better than them...even though their builds havent changed at all themselves.

    A lot of people find it fun to be powerful. Its not a dichotomy. People like being as strong as possible, so they're going to gravitate to whatever offers the most power, and they're not going to have fun if they're playing something less powerful.

  2. #122
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    Well, I have to say that I am actually sad about this. As a pure build monk, I have really actually enjoyed plowing through heroics with my IQS buddies. It has made leveling so much easier.

    I do feel the IQS pain though as a professionally Nerfed class (monk). The only thing I wonder is how much of a nerf is it, and will this be the end? Or is this a test, and then later you get whacked again (again captain nerf monk here). I continued to play and optimize my monk. I am sure this is not the end of road for IQS by any means.

    Good luck! (and to think I was about to roll and IQS build)

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The people complaining about Inqui, generally, are not the ones who are playing it. They're complaining because other players are suddenly better than them...even though their builds havent changed at all themselves.

    A lot of people find it fun to be powerful. Its not a dichotomy. People like being as strong as possible, so they're going to gravitate to whatever offers the most power, and they're not going to have fun if they're playing something less powerful.
    ^^^^^This!!

    I don't play one, but I love running in a Pug with them! It does make leveling so much easier. A bit sad!!

  4. #124
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    There exist a set of builds based on inquisitive that can solo R10 which needs to be addressed...
    I group with a good number of 1% and excellent high reaper players. no one is solo'ing R10 on an inquis anymore so than other classes are.
    Member of "Guild of the Black Dragons" & "Swords of the Light" on Sarlona. Proud "Last" member of Caffeine - we aint stragicially savy.
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  5. #125
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    This thread so much reminds me of another game, when the devs finally fixed everyone's pet exploit. OMG you would have thought their dog was killed.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thar View Post
    I group with a good number of 1% and excellent high reaper players. no one is solo'ing R10 on an inquis anymore so than other classes are.
    My experience is the same. I am running R10s with generally well-balanced groups. My inq often leads the kill count by a small to medium margin, but if I were on my own I wouldn't last one room. Teamwork is what brings success, not raw firepower. Interestingly enough, I have run into two or three other builds that outperform inq pretty healthily. Depending on how far they swing the bat, I may switch to one of those.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thar View Post
    A good DC wizard can pk a room just as fast as inquis and a sorc can clear a room in the same time or slightly faster. The problem for most players is this is past life and gear intensive and most people don't put in that work. Even a DC cleric can clear a room quickly in some cases.

    most people don't play in those types of groups and don't realize. case in point.
    I am a DC wizard. One of the best. And I think inquisitive is MUCH stronger than DC wizards. Maybe 4 times stronger but with no mana limit. And about 100 times more solo capable especially in high reaper.

    A DC wiz can PK one mob at a time. With IPS trash can be cleared much faster and safer. Always up NHB. What more needs to be said?

    Trying to wail in R10 is almost 100% suicide.
    Last edited by capsela; 01-09-2020 at 04:27 PM.
    Toon on cannith

  8. #128
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisulven7 View Post
    This thread so much reminds me of another game, when the devs finally fixed everyone's pet exploit. OMG you would have thought their dog was killed.
    I'll do just fine on whatever the META is, but I like the fact that Inquisitive can run just fine on any class, so I'm not just limited to [insert class here].

    I finally got off my ass and finished my completionist, so that doesn't matter quite as much, but Inquisitive is mostly fine. There are some situations where it overperforms in Epic, but it isn't an outlier in Heroic lives at all (*everything* is overpowered in Heroic - even Paladin is amazeballs in Heroic content) and it's merely "good" on most classes.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by bracelet View Post
    My experience is the same. I am running R10s with generally well-balanced groups. My inq often leads the kill count by a small to medium margin, but if I were on my own I wouldn't last one room. Teamwork is what brings success, not raw firepower. Interestingly enough, I have run into two or three other builds that outperform inq pretty healthily. Depending on how far they swing the bat, I may switch to one of those.
    Let's all hope SSG doesn't balance 100% of the game around 1% of players.

    That's not a formula for success.

    I think your statement is representative that the top 1% largely plays whatever is most powerful, which leaves little reason to balance the rest of the game around them.
    - inactive player -

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veltamore View Post
    NOOOOOOOO I just start using inqs let me have some fun for awhile first lol.
    Same here. I just bought Inqui and rebuilt to tinker with it. It is the first purchase I have made in years but I guess I should have known better.

    There are no lemon laws in Ebberon. Buyer beware.

  11. #131
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The people complaining about Inqui, generally, are not the ones who are playing it. They're complaining because other players are suddenly better than them...even though their builds havent changed at all themselves.

    A lot of people find it fun to be powerful. Its not a dichotomy. People like being as strong as possible, so they're going to gravitate to whatever offers the most power, and they're not going to have fun if they're playing something less powerful.
    I'd be fine if it stopped there. The issue is instead of joining the new META people go to the forums and claim someone else playing the new thing ruins their fun. A dichotomy does exist in that a real meta gamer would simply join the new meta, and those complaining about having their fun supposedly ruined by someone else playing the new thing werent meta gamers in the first place. The design flaw here is not in how powerful the new thing is, but in having an actual dichotomy where meta gamers and non meta-gamers are in the same game space. Non meta players are not willing to forgo the reaper progression system even when the vast majority of it only functions in reaper. So they force their way into a game space designed for meta gamers then complain the meta build, meta ap line, meta (insert new thing here) ruins their fun.

    Its kind of an odd mentality, because I run into them from time to time and many refuse to raid, due to newer raids even on normal being far more difficult than normal quests. This means forgoing BiS gear in many cases, which can bring as much if not more progression to the character than running reaper would. Is it the extra XP earned that causes them to force themselves into the metagamer game space? How big is the overlap between non meta gamers and xp/min crowd? Typically the meta gaming crowd is the most concerned with xp/min/farming/etc...not non meta gamers.
    Last edited by Chai; 01-09-2020 at 04:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    They haven't supported the builds that people said were fun, and their design choices actively discourage players from choosing fun over rewards.

    If they were going to put in huge rewards, SSG would have had to match fun with rewards, letting people progress at similar rates when they play whatever they enjoy. They chose not to do this, continually pushing players to play one way. Even their dungeon design choices support this mentality.
    This is a serious problem with DDO, but we are probably beyond the point of actually doing anything about it.

    DDO was supposed to be a party based game where several different roles were needed for success. They gave everyone heals and healers became optional. 99% of traps can be safely bypassed so trappers are optional. Stealth has been virtually removed from the game. Clickies and power creep let any variety of builds effectively "tank" if even only for short bursts of time such as boss battles, so dedicated tanks/aggro management became optional. All that's left is DPS, and that's the game DDO has become.

    When the goal of the game is to get through a dungeon and all the other necessary roles have been removed, the higher DPS builds are going to naturally end up carrying lower DPS builds through the quest. And at that point, the game that was supposed to be built on diversity (endless build possibilities!) has been turned into a game of uniformity.

    Inquisitive is the icing on this cake. Any class can have good DPS!!!! Just be Inquisitive. IE give us money and you'll be good at DDO! If DDO hadn't removed the necessity of a balanced party over the years, I think you'd see a lot less complaints about Inquisitive now.

    As critical as I am of many dev decisions and the direction of DDO in general, I actually applaud both of the Sharn raids. They require team work and strategies that had been removed from most of the game over the years. Though I will admit THTH is definitely a DPS race, as a whole it still takes a lot of coordination and more than 2 people in the raid knowing what's going on. If you can harness more of "teamwork required" content, I think you'll see less complaint threads like this in the future.
    Stratis on Khyber

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  13. #133
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    i got good news for you, following the most recent (or all?) trends, new class will be OP for around 2 years, however universal trees you all know 1 year is max duration in the opness, which doesn't make em directly ****, cause they will touch the lower part, not the overperforming one, so you feel all enticed to buy new class (it's like playing new packs/expansions during 1st week after release, makes no sense denying the facts lol)
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  14. #134
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    So...

    A) Thank you developers for communicating with the community. This thread is dovetailing quickly so wanted to get that in before its locked.

    B) It was predicted by the community Inquisitive would be nerfed prior to the release of Alchemist. Honestly I was surprised you waited this long, but they were right. If you are still reading the thread, focus on Alchemist immediately if you don't want a repeat. Look to your players who you have a good rapport with and act on there feedback. I would hazard a guess some of your employees have their personal numbers and you can call them in "off hours" if you asked them if that was ok.

    C) Anyway (i.e. off topic), hopefully it doesn't take 3 months and 5 days before my computer gets out of the shop once again. Stupid repair departments!
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post

    As critical as I am of many dev decisions and the direction of DDO in general, I actually applaud both of the Sharn raids. They require team work and strategies that had been removed from most of the game over the years. Though I will admit THTH is definitely a DPS race, as a whole it still takes a lot of coordination and more than 2 people in the raid knowing what's going on. If you can harness more of "teamwork required" content, I think you'll see less complaint threads like this in the future.
    I'm glad you like this content!

    The core issue (for the reasons you mentioned above) is that a solo player also needs to be rewarded for tactical play, and game design really pushes players into whatever is easiest (hi Inquisitve!). I was happy soloing at 1/3 the speed of everyone else, using tactics, but devs decided that this type of play was simply not important. With current design, you are stuck trying to find a group that matched your preferences to run the content, and while this might exist on release, it usually disappears in short order once players have the rewards and move on to easier (faster rewards) content.

    The game design needs to support this same type of skilled tactical play in solo mode, and this is best done through game mechanics and class abilities rather than content. This means giving a player competitive options that are meaningful, rather than gated and monotonous choices that encourage you to watch Netfilx while playing.

    There needs to be a challenge setting (not rewards setting) that is solo-friendly, requiring tactics, if on average people are spending ~70% of their time soloing. They actually removed this from the game (stealth) when they introduced reaper, which leaves an arms race for the easiest play.
    Last edited by nokowi; 01-09-2020 at 04:45 PM.
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  16. #136
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    This is a serious problem with DDO, but we are probably beyond the point of actually doing anything about it.

    DDO was supposed to be a party based game where several different roles were needed for success. They gave everyone heals and healers became optional. 99% of traps can be safely bypassed so trappers are optional. Stealth has been virtually removed from the game. Clickies and power creep let any variety of builds effectively "tank" if even only for short bursts of time such as boss battles, so dedicated tanks/aggro management became optional. All that's left is DPS, and that's the game DDO has become.

    When the goal of the game is to get through a dungeon and all the other necessary roles have been removed, the higher DPS builds are going to naturally end up carrying lower DPS builds through the quest. And at that point, the game that was supposed to be built on diversity (endless build possibilities!) has been turned into a game of uniformity.

    Inquisitive is the icing on this cake. Any class can have good DPS!!!! Just be Inquisitive. IE give us money and you'll be good at DDO! If DDO hadn't removed the necessity of a balanced party over the years, I think you'd see a lot less complaints about Inquisitive now.

    As critical as I am of many dev decisions and the direction of DDO in general, I actually applaud both of the Sharn raids. They require team work and strategies that had been removed from most of the game over the years. Though I will admit THTH is definitely a DPS race, as a whole it still takes a lot of coordination and more than 2 people in the raid knowing what's going on. If you can harness more of "teamwork required" content, I think you'll see less complaint threads like this in the future.
    "Teamwork required" content got shouted down quite some time ago. There was a statement on the forums that elite was not designed to scale down due to #party members, and a bug caused it to actually scale, and when players began posting about it, there was heavy advocacy to RetCon the "bug" as WAI so people could solo elite for max favor. The same "not fair" and "ruins my fun" arguments were trotted out when this occurred.

    This is part of the issue we continue to bring up. Multiple groups of different kinds of players forcing their way into each others game spaces, then demanding the game space with the highest progression potential be tailored for their playstyle. Refuse to run normal or hard. Demand elite be RetCon to scale - then when the original elite players complained the game was too easy, the response was eventually Reaper 1-10.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  17. #137
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    Default How Soon Until The Alchemist Nerf?

    I expect the new class will be very OP and the nerf will come after everyone buys it. Don’t make it too OP and perhaps you can avoid another bait and switch and making people upset. ????

  18. #138
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    Thank you devs for continuing to try to make this game the best role playing game out there.
    Because it still is.
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  19. #139
    Community Member Graskitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    .. a new race - let's say, Tabaxi or something. They look great, they have cool tails, they can run really fast - good stuff. It's coming out next update and you're really excited.
    this is great but unexpected news.. I can see tabaxi fitting into the isle of dread release. It is not my ideal player race (I still would have preferred kobold) but I do like the idea that we might get some kind of ball of string ranged missile/lasso weapon. You have tail technology in ddo so it makes sense to use it. This would be a great opportunity to show off fur textures and patterns.

    .. a different race - like, uhhh... Thri-Kreen. Oh god, they're so OP....
    wow. This really caught me by surprise and makes me think you are going for a Dark Sun campaign expansion release which is more than I had hoped for. I am assuming that thri-kreen are granted the choice of four-weapon OR four-handed weapon fighting as an exclusive racial feat and that the paperdoll inventory will accommodate four weapon slots AND that there will be an option to dual wield quarterstaves...

    I am not sure why but I feel like saying thri-kreen sounds very grievous in a good way.
    I am just wondering what the armor/carapace options will be.

    How many ring slots will thri-kreen get?

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graskitch View Post
    this is great but unexpected news..
    I feel obligated to point out that this was a hypothetical scenario that hopefully made a few players realize that what they are asking for is impossible, and not an actual announcement that, in the year 2035, we'll be releasing Tabaxi and Thri-Kreen.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

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