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  1. #1
    Community Member Odium's Avatar
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    Default Returning Player in Need of End Game Advice

    Hello All,

    I have recently returned to DDO after a really long time away (last played in 2012 i think). All my current characters are still just level 20 and it seems that power creep has passed me by witht he gear i have. My objective is to eventually be able to do high reaper quests. After looking at a ton of builds, i am struggling on figuring out how to get there. Do i need to be running the TR Train first? Do i need to get a character to cap and struggle to find gear as i go and then try to farm reaper xp 1st? Any advice on what a 1st life, level 20 character should do to help move toward high reapers would be greatly appreciated.
    Wow!

  2. #2
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    I did not get on the TR train very much.

    My main toon, Arkat, only has 7 or 8 past lives. The rest of my toons all have at least 2 past lives in order to become 36 point builds instead of 32 or 34 point builds.

    Instead, I got on the loot train. I've got a nice amount of raid gear and pretty much any non-raid items I could want.

    Where does that get me relative to endgame?

    My best toons can do most R4 or R5 content in good groups. If I wanted to be able to solo difficult R10 stuff, I would have to also get all the past lives - something I have neither the patience nor the time for.
    Last edited by Arkat; 01-03-2020 at 02:26 PM.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown
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  3. #3
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odium View Post
    ... i am struggling on figuring out how to get there. Do i need to be running the TR Train first? Do i need to get a character to cap and struggle to find gear as i go and then try to farm reaper xp 1st?
    All of the above and more.

    Serious high-reaper players/characters have several advantages, but perhaps the most important is that they are practiced at running Reaper. It's not the same as non-reaper - you have to use diff tactics, have to ID the diff Reapers and know their abilities and weaknesses, when to attack and when to ignore, what[s an immediate threat and what's not, etc etc. That will come w/ practice.

    Another huge advantage is Reaper XP, which adds up to HUGE hit point buffs (and other survival boosts). Via RXP, characters can easily have double the HP of non-RXP characters - huge advantage. YUGE.

    Meanwhile, reincarnations and gear all add up (but Gear pro'ly faster). Take a look at the Ravenloft (ML 10) and Sharn (ML 15) sets for mid/later Heroics.

    Any advice on what a 1st life, level 20 character should do to help move toward high reapers would be greatly appreciated.
    Reincarnate. It's MUCH faster to get to 20 now than it used to be, even without joining a "train" (altho' that's even faster - crazy fast!).

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Reincarnation

    Take a look at Racial Reincarnation (a new alternative to Heroic TR, @ 20) - 3 of the same life (max) get you +1 Ability point and +1 Racial AP, the latter of which add up to become more than 80 AP to spend - which is huge for some builds.


    While Heroic Reincarnating, yes, detour to take a swing at farming the gear you need for next lap. It will start to add up without slowing you down too much by fixating on getting it "all" during one life.

    If you want to go to 30, there's some great stuff in those Past Lives too, but that's a diff gearing.



    However (and depending on your personality) - don't get overly locked in to the "train" just for the sake of the train. Make sure you're "playing the game" while you're reincarnating, or at least take a break and do that on occasion. Don't lose sight of the goal - to have fun (however you define that!).

    GL!
    o/
    The Basics of DDO / "Select Adventure Pack" Sales & "How to choose an Adventure Pack"

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  4. #4
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    SirValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odium View Post
    I have recently returned to DDO after a really long time away (last played in 2012 i think). All my current characters are still just level 20 and it seems that power creep has passed me by witht he gear i have. My objective is to eventually be able to do high reaper quests. After looking at a ton of builds, i am struggling on figuring out how to get there. Do i need to be running the TR Train first? Do i need to get a character to cap and struggle to find gear as i go and then try to farm reaper xp 1st? Any advice on what a 1st life, level 20 character should do to help move toward high reapers would be greatly appreciated.
    During leveling, lots of people do R1, and some do R2-R6, but I've seen very few people doing stuff at high skulls other than at level 30 (or 28-30). If you're level 20, there probably isn't much high reaper going on for you.

    Leveling can be relatively quick; personally I don't worry too much about gear you'll only wear for a couple levels. Sharn (and/or Ravenloft) gear at level 29 will far surpass almost all other gear. The biggest bang for the buck will be getting up to (or close to) 30 and farming a bunch of modern gear.

    How much Reaper Points versus Epic PLs versus class PLs versus Racial PLs matter, and which PLs, varies from build to build. But a fairly efficient way to work on those is to run 1->30, stay at 30 long enough to get "first time bonus" for Reaper on many quests as you reasonably can, optionally ER once and run back up 20->30 (going 20->30 twice total is easy enough with bravery bonuses and sagas and slayer areas), then you can ER/TR back down to 1 when you want to. This will net you 1 class or race PL, 1 or 2 Epic PLs, and a big chunk of Reaper XP. Doing all your heroic class/race PLs first, and all your Epic PLs later (or the other way around) would be much, much less efficient. And not taking advantage of Reaper first time bonus whenever you're at 30 anyway would also be less efficient for earning RXP.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 01-07-2020 at 12:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerRowan View Post
    Our final update of 2014 will extend the level cap to 30, which is intended to be DDO’s “permanent” level cap

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    During leveling, lots of people do R1, and some do R2-R6, but I've seen very few people doing stuff at high skulls other than at level 30 (or 28-30). If you're level 20, there probably isn't much high reaper going on for you.

    Leveling can be relatively quick; personally I don't worry too much about gear you'll only wear for a couple levels. Sharn (and/or Ravenloft) gear at level 29 will far surpass almost all other gear. The biggest bang for the buck will be getting up to (or close to) 30 and farming a bunch of modern gear.

    How much Reaper Points versus Epic PLs versus class PLs versus Racial PLs matter, and which PLs, varies from build to build. But a fairly efficient way to work on those is to run 1->30, stay at 30 long enough to get "first time bonus" for Reaper on many quests as you reasonably can, optionally ER once and run back up 20->30 (going 20->30 twice total is easy enough with bravery bonuses and sagas and slayer areas), then you can ER/TR back down to 1 when you want to. This will net you 1 class or race PL, 1 or 2 Epic PLs, and a big chunk of Reaper XP. Doing all your heroic class/race PLs first, and all your Epic PLs later (or the other way around) would be much, much less efficient. And not taking advantage of Reaper first time bonus whenever you're at 30 anyway would also be less efficient for earning RXP.
    Very good advice thanks for posting this.

    On my first Epic run and i was planning on staying for a while to farm out gear but also maxing out Epic Destinies and gain a greater amount of Reaper points.

  6. #6
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Reincarnate. It's MUCH faster to get to 20 now than it used to be, even without joining a "train" (altho' that's even faster - crazy fast!).
    IMHO, do Epic TRs before Heroic. The gains are substantial, immediate, AND they apply at L1. IMHO, an Epic Completionist character FAR outperforms a Heroic Completionist pretty much in all but one way: your heroic-only TR character will have more build options. The options they have won't outperform the full Epic-TR character, but they can be more fun to play. There are definitely builds I want to play and can't due to low racial AP.

    BTW, if you haven't considered it or tried it, making a leveling plan (skills, classes, stats, AND gear) for your character will significantly increase it's effectiveness. I use Maetrim's DDOBuilder primarily because it permits you to create gear sets and shows you what the character's stats would be wearing that gear. Then you can level-up by XP'ing on the areas you need to farm for the gear you need for your next TR.

    I used to use ElisDee's builder for it's much simpler UI and more concise forum-post output format, but that one lacks gearing support and is a couple patches behind. There might be more; Google would know.

  7. #7
    Community Member Bloodskittle's Avatar
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    Default Don't try to do it all at once

    People have more or less said this already.
    Don't try to do it all at once,
    Do pieces of the game as you go. Most medium skull groups 4-7 skulls or so can easily carry a random first life character, get in there, die a bunch and learn what reaper content is about, get a little bit of gear, if you're doing Sharn just take everything and be a hoarder for now, its fine.
    Then TR, and do it all again, build up the amount of skulls you can handle as a competent party member slowly there's no rush, but don't be afraid to try R10.

    Some builds/roles are better with few past lives than others. If you want to get into high reaper content ASAP, TR into a Favored Soul or a Bard and be a party healer/buffer (not a cleric, these are bad healers).
    One of the pros of being a healer is that gear is somewhat simplified as you mostly just need to increase your defenses and make sure you can heal enough in one go.
    If you like to play DPS roles, get on the TR train and collect those PL
    Viamel ~ Lava Divers

  8. #8
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    The most important thing is to play what you want to play and have fun. There is indeed a build up to surviving reaper, and dont worry about dying during the process. Going in and trying is how you learn mechanics, monster and reaper target priorities, trap placement, what buffs/twists/tools to use, etc. Two people with the exact same build could handle very different reaper levels just based on skill. So dont be afraid to ask questions! I think a majority of veterans would prefer to teach a mechanic than watch as a "noob" kills the vengeance reaper right next to the boss and three Doom reapers.

    That said, there is grinding for literal power:
    - RXP: Reaper trees can give you over 800 HP, provide 6+ DCs to spells/tactics, dodge, SP, saves, unique boosts, etc. There is more power creep in them than most past lives. As others have mentioned, a lot of low to mid reaper parties dont care if there are some newer players joining that need a bit of a carry to earn that experience. Just play more cautiously (let them take the aggro first before running in, hit what they are hitting so you dont gain aggro, dont face tank traps), or you can looks for alternative ways to help (trapping, healing from the back, bringing social gear for npc optionals, or simply dpsing where you can and not letting deaths bother you). Personally I would prefer someone that has to sit in my back pack and is enjoyable to talk to over someone that can zerg ahead of me in silence. One makes the quest more sociable and fun, and the other takes away the ability to control pacing (sometimes I'm in the mood to do optionals, sometimes there are others in the party that need/want it to go slower, and if you are just red alerting to the boss, they can screw over the newer people they leave behind with the trash mobs.)

    - Gear: the power creep of gear has been huge. Gear has not only been getting higher and higher stats, but powerful set bonuses (to the point you take 10/15 gear to 28+), sentience for weapons/gear that has a whole slew of power and flexibility, and weapons that are magnitudes stronger. Gear defines your build more than your feats/enhancements do. So grinding for the latest Tetris solution you have will do a lot.

    - Past lives: this is the true Treadmill of DDO. Some enjoy it, some hate it. There is undeniable power in past lives, and while a first life with a ton of RXP is typically better off than someone with a ton of past lives and no RXP, the fact is you can earn RXP on the PL grind. Why earn just RXP when you can get both? If you dont mind the grind, decide what you want your final build to be and then pick the past lives needed to maximize it. Do the most important ones first so if you decide the grind isn't for you or want a break from it, you can go back to your main build and enjoy the fruits of your labor. What is priority will vary on your build, but a quick suggested:
    -- 12 epic PL (3 of each core type): this gives you 4 core abilities that work from level 1, defensive bonuses, 3 twist FP, and another twist slot.
    -- DC based Heroic PLs: Casters want these the most, but Monks want Fighter for the tactics to QP, "froggers" want Alchemist, etc. But 1 life for 1 DC is strong. Spell Pen may also be up here if needed.
    -- Racial: This is a long grind, but can provide ~4 to every stat and 14 racial tree build points. How powerful that is depends on the build, and you can always stop at "just enough AP" for your build goals.
    -- More epic PLs: Every 4 earns you a Fate Point along with the defensive boosts of the passives. Earning enough Fate Points to fit the twists you want is another power jump. More abilities also give you boosts to different builds you may want to try on the TR grind. I suggest doing these (and whatever of the first 12 you still need) along with you heroic/racial, especially if you enjoyed that build (sagas make it easier to fit in 2-3 per life).
    -- Iconic: just the Iconic for the stance you want and PDK for the aoe run action boost + 9PRR is all that really matters. But I find Iconic 15-30 to be faster than 1-20, AND you can earn both Heroic and Iconic past lives at the same time, so why not?
    -- More Heroics: 1 ofs if you want the completionist feat available, other little fillers to 3 (pally heal amp, whatevs) At this point you are scraping the barrel because you either actually liked the TR grind or have your heart set on having every past life.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

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