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  1. #1
    Community Member Sythe777's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on heavy armor usage on arcane casters

    After doing some experimenting with EK and medium armor proficiency, I have found that my prr does not change whether or not I have the proficiency enhancement. This leads me to think that heavy armor would be better assuming you can get past the ASF, which you can with EK's 4th core and a +15 ASF augment. Is there any downside to upgrading to heavy armor? The only thing I can think of is the -5 skill penalty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sythe777 View Post
    After doing some experimenting with EK and medium armor proficiency, I have found that my prr does not change whether or not I have the proficiency enhancement. This leads me to think that heavy armor would be better assuming you can get past the ASF, which you can with EK's 4th core and a +15 ASF augment. Is there any downside to upgrading to heavy armor? The only thing I can think of is the -5 skill penalty.
    If prr is the same where is the improvement? I dont see it
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    Community Member Lithalan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    If prr is the same where is the improvement? I dont see it
    I think he's saying the PRR is the same in medium armor with or without proficiency? So my understanding is he wants to save some APs by not bothering with medium armor proficiency and just wearing heavy armor.

    OP - trying to put an EK in heavy armor is difficult but not impossible. To get to zero ASF, you have to have enhancements and gear to total -35% ASF. The best augment is -15% so you'd still have to dip into the EK tree up to core 4 for -20%, or else combine EK with a racial tree like Elf. It also depends on whether or not you plan on using a shield.

  4. #4
    Community Member Sythe777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithalan View Post
    I think he's saying the PRR is the same in medium armor with or without proficiency? So my understanding is he wants to save some APs by not bothering with medium armor proficiency and just wearing heavy armor.

    OP - trying to put an EK in heavy armor is difficult but not impossible. To get to zero ASF, you have to have enhancements and gear to total -35% ASF. The best augment is -15% so you'd still have to dip into the EK tree up to core 4 for -20%, or else combine EK with a racial tree like Elf. It also depends on whether or not you plan on using a shield.
    Yep, that's what I meant. Currently, I have enough AP to take the 4th core and can just buy a +15 Spell Agility augment to hit 0. I should get about 5 extra AC and 10 PRR for what appears to be no downside.

    What do you mean by whether or not I plan on using a shield? I do use one, but I fail to see how it relates to armor proficiency.
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  5. #5
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sythe777 View Post
    ...

    What do you mean by whether or not I plan on using a shield? I do use one, but I fail to see how it relates to armor proficiency.
    Heavy Armor alone is the 35% ASF

    Shields add between 0 and 50% ASF (Buckler [0], Light [10], Heavy [15], Tower [50] )

    Now there are named shields and special material that reduce this (some even to 0), and shields with blue capable slots for an augments.

    Also keep in mind that while the EK ASF reduction also applies to shields, the elf ASF reduction only applies to Armor.

  6. #6
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sythe777 View Post
    What do you mean by whether or not I plan on using a shield? I do use one, but I fail to see how it relates to armor proficiency.
    It relates to ASF, and some ASF enchancements specifically relate only to armor.

    Also, armor PRR/MRR is based on your BAB, so heavy armor for a pure caster will be half of what it would be for a fighter-type.

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Re...e_Rating#Items

  7. #7
    Community Member Sythe777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Heavy Armor alone is the 35% ASF

    Shields add between 0 and 50% ASF (Buckler [0], Light [10], Heavy [15], Tower [50] )

    Now there are named shields and special material that reduce this (some even to 0), and shields with blue capable slots for an augments.

    Also keep in mind that while the EK ASF reduction also applies to shields, the elf ASF reduction only applies to Armor.
    Ah, right. The odd thing is that somehow, at 30, I'm able to get away with wearing both Blessed Vestments and a Giant's Platter (25+15=40 ASF) with only EK Core 3, and a +10 Spell Agility (15+10=25). Unless EK Core 3 applies to both armor and shield at the same time (25-15 + 15-15 - 10 = 0). In which case, EK Core 4 and a +15 Spell Agility against heavy armor would be (35-20 + 15-15 - 15 = 0).

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    It relates to ASF, and some ASF enchancements specifically relate only to armor.

    Also, armor PRR/MRR is based on your BAB, so heavy armor for a pure caster will be half of what it would be for a fighter-type.

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Re...e_Rating#Items
    I know PRR/MRR is based on BAB, my 10 extra PRR comes from a BAB of 20 at level 30. 2*20 - 1.5*20 = 10.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sythe777 View Post
    After doing some experimenting with EK and medium armor proficiency, I have found that my prr does not change whether or not I have the proficiency enhancement. This leads me to think that heavy armor would be better assuming you can get past the ASF, which you can with EK's 4th core and a +15 ASF augment. Is there any downside to upgrading to heavy armor? The only thing I can think of is the -5 skill penalty.
    At 30 your bab is 15, the increase in prr is going to be 9 (over medium armor). Your loss in dodge from max dex bonus will be 4-10 depending on the armor. I dont think the loss of dodge is worth the increase in prr. If your not capped the gains are even less.

    If your using tensers your really doing a different build.

    The only exception i think is getting adamantine body, but thats because there is no medium armor option.

    Medium is the good place to be, good dodge, no mrr cap.

  9. #9
    Community Member Katalissa's Avatar
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    I've done an EK with heavy armour.

    The good news for you is that the ASF from the EK core 3 and 4 actually stack, giving you a total of 35% ASF - enough for heavy armour. Take the T2 shield proficiency and you get a further 15% for shields.

    T4 Knight's Transformation gives you the same BAB as a fighter - 1 per level, meaning you get the full benefit of heavy armour PRR.

    The only downside is you need to either spend the 3 feats to get heavy armour proficiency (as the medium proficiency enhancement does not count for getting the heavy proficiency feat), or, splash a level of fighter or another class that gets heavy armour proficiency by default.

  10. #10
    Community Member Sythe777's Avatar
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    Alright. Thanks for the insight guys. I hoped that the slight advantage of prr and no apparent downsides would mean I could eke out a little more defense, but it's clear that it's probably not the best idea.
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  11. #11
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katalissa View Post
    I've done an EK with heavy armour.

    The good news for you is that the ASF from the EK core 3 and 4 actually stack, giving you a total of 35% ASF - enough for heavy armour. Take the T2 shield proficiency and you get a further 15% for shields.

    T4 Knight's Transformation gives you the same BAB as a fighter - 1 per level, meaning you get the full benefit of heavy armour PRR.

    The only downside is you need to either spend the 3 feats to get heavy armour proficiency (as the medium proficiency enhancement does not count for getting the heavy proficiency feat), or, splash a level of fighter or another class that gets heavy armour proficiency by default.
    Unless you are a tin can, then you only need 1 feat.

  12. #12
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NemesisAlien View Post
    Unless you are a tin can, then you only need 1 feat.
    As a bonus, Warforged/Bladeforged also get a nice ASF reduction enhancement in their racials.
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