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  1. #1
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Default Eveningstar Heroic Sagas: Too many? Too icky? Too late?

    I don't understand the heroic Eveningstar sagas and have never really been able to make use of them. There are so very many quests you HAVE to complete to get the saga reward that there's a good chance you'll hit 20 before you even do them all. It'd be nice if the saga reward NPC would give you a partial reward based on the number of quests you've completed in the saga. For example, Gianthold, you get 46K for doing 10 quests. It'd be great if you instead got 4.6K per quest you've completed. Of course this would be too simple, convenient, and fun. So they would understandably have to do what they do best, screw it up some to make it less good. They could take away XP based on the percentage of the quests you've completed. For example, in Gianthold if you only did 80% of the quests you'd only get 80% of the 4.6K per quest, which works out to ~3.7k per quest. 3.7K times 8 quests would be ~29K, quite a bit less than the 37K you'd get with the flat rate 4.6K per quest.

    The formula would be (number of quests completed / number of quests) * (full saga XP / number of quests) * number of quests completed. Complete 8 quests in GH and your saga reward would be (8/10) * (46,000/10) * 8 = 29,440 XP.

    For Gianthold your saga XP reward would look like this:

    1. 460
    2. 1,800
    3. 4,140
    4. 7,360
    5. 11,500
    6. 16,560
    7. 22,540
    8. 29,440
    9. 37,260
    10. 46,000


    They could simply continue require a complete saga for the non XP rewards.

    Obviously Gianthold wouldn't benefit all that much with this as there are only 10 quests and all of them are easily soloable. Yet it would still be nice for those times you can't find anyone to group with so you could just skip crucible and/or madstone, collect your reduced saga reward, and move on with your life. The Eveningstar sagas however would benefit tremendously from this!

    Alternatively, while sagas are great, I think a better way to go would be having every quest arc provide a list of tomes, named items, various other assorted special items, and XP stones to choose from. Not only would this remedy the situation above as the biggest heroic saga contains 5 different quest arcs, but every arc in the game would become its own mini saga.

    Now for the reality check... it's never going to happen. Because they sell XP in the store they only ever change XP to make it worse. New quests have more mobs, with more health and higher saves, and less XP. They did an Experience pass where they added a small percent of XP to a handful of extremely low XP quests, and anyone who understands percentages understands that a small percent of a small amount is a ridiculously small amount. For example for a 3K XP quest, a 10% increase is a scant 300 XP! WOOOOHOOO! That 3000 XP quest that wasn't worth running yesterday is now 3300 XP!!! TOTALLY WORTH IT NOW!!!

    Even though I understand they want to sell XP in the store, they really should do an honest XP overhaul though. Nothing like the last one where they took away large chunks of XP from the best quests and added back tiny bits of XP to the worst. They should look at the actual XP/min of all the quests in the game and then bring the ridiculously low XP/min in line with the average quests.

    Anyway, as I was saying, they're never going to do anything that makes getting XP faster or easier as long as players keep buying XP from the store. So the real reason I'm here is I'm wondering if/how players take advantage of the heroic level Eveningstar sagas. I was going to try to do the sagas this time around, but after only doing a few of them I'm two dots into 18. I'm pretty sure if I tried to finish the sagas I'd be 20 before I was done. The quests themselves, for the most part, have pretty low XP compared to old school quests in those level ranges. Additionally there are tons of high HP mobs with high saves, so they are harder to solo and take longer to complete.

    Is there a trick to make the Eveningstar heroic sagas worth it, or is it just something to do if you're bored and are looking for new some new scenery?
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  2. #2
    Community Member Nyata's Avatar
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    just a side note, you can still run the quests when you are 20. storm horns is level 19, you still get the heroic BB without spoiling your epic BB and it still is a nice chunk of XP at 20 or 21.

  3. #3
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    I used to run Eveningstar until Sharn came out. The thing is, if you TR each life, there is no way I am running ES heroic ever again with sharn. most people bank the sagas from GH and Sharn and then jump from 18 to 20 by collecting said sagas. Even in Epics, I only run the fast XP quests in ES, like wheloon. I have no desire to trek out through the stormhorns, even with my horse. I also have no reason to run the underdark stuff. The point is that ES is in a bad spot in terms of quests that are too long for little reward (unless you like flavor I guess).

    Some people line up their sagas for an epic reincarnation, and that includes heroics and epcis in ES. honestly, this takes so much time to do and I think you end up spending the same or less amount of time avoiding this. I have 28 epic past lives and I have done it all sorts of ways, and I generally just avoid ES anymore.

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  4. #4
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    Eh...yes, there's too much content to do it all in one life, that's been true for a long time already

    If you're running it all on R1 first time, then yeah you're making it even harder to squeeze it all in before you out level it - but that doesnt mean some players might not run it on Elite or Hard, in which case they'd easily get the whole Saga in before they hit 20. Also if you're doing other L16+ content (ie Vale, Sharn) then that's going to squeeze you out even more.

    Basically, it's there if you want it for a given life. You can run all the quests (and many overlap multiple Sagas) and have that be the bulk of your 16+ leveling, or you can just mix in the ones you want among other content. You dont need to complete it every single life.

    Also in Epic, its much more useful since you can bank all the sagas before an ETR, and you could easily run them all 2x each life True Elite.

    I dont agree with prorating Sagas, though. For one, it defeats the whole purpose of the Saga, which is to encourage players to run ALL quests. If you prorate it, then people are just going to go back to running "dailies" and then just pick up whatever Saga XP that earns them as a bonus. For two, it really devalues the benefit for VIPs of being able to skip a quest (*cough* Crucible *cough*) since everyone can now skip one and only suffer a small XP loss.

  5. #5
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyata View Post
    just a side note, you can still run the quests when you are 20. storm horns is level 19, you still get the heroic BB without spoiling your epic BB and it still is a nice chunk of XP at 20 or 21.
    That gives me an idea!

    While I can't see the point in running heroic quests after you hit 20, I wonder if completing quests you still need for your heroic saga on epic would count toward the completion of the heroic saga? What goes up awards 16K XP on heroic, but in epic, even on just normal it awards 60K. So I just don't see any reason to finish the heroic saga after level 20 unless the quests on epic count, which would make the heroic saga a nice little bonus I guess.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Nyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    That gives me an idea!

    While I can't see the point in running heroic quests after you hit 20, I wonder if completing quests you still need for your heroic saga on epic would count toward the completion of the heroic saga? What goes up awards 16K XP on heroic, but in epic, even on just normal it awards 60K. So I just don't see any reason to finish the heroic saga after level 20 unless the quests on epic count, which would make the heroic saga a nice little bonus I guess.
    of course they count for heroic. you can complete and turn in GH heroic saga for example even when you are whatever epic level. Actually I sometimes set the heroic sagas up and save them for a guild renown boost weekend.

  7. #7
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    Before they changed it so you could do reaper at level +2 I did maybe 15 lives where I did both ES heroic chains. It seemed very competitive xp wise as the boost from those 2 chains is quite considerable and many of the quests are decent to good xp. Since the rxp level change I havent done them though.
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  8. #8
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    I don't understand the heroic Eveningstar sagas and have never really been able to make use of them. There are so very many quests you HAVE to complete to get the saga reward that there's a good chance you'll hit 20 before you even do them all...
    The Heroic Sagas are meh. The 5 Epic Sagas all overlap, so you don't have to do all of them, but if you do you'll only have to do an average of 6 quests/saga.

    I don't try to do them all at level, but for characters who could use some of the +3 skill tomes, they're highly recommended, even if it's after you hit 20, but before you TR. And if going to 30, they're pretty easy to solo over-level.

    o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6257953

  9. #9
    TOONETEER Brutuscass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    I don't understand the heroic Eveningstar sagas and have never really been able to make use of them. There are so very many quests you HAVE to complete to get the saga reward that there's a good chance you'll hit 20 before you even do them all. It'd be nice if the saga reward NPC would give you a partial reward based on the number of quests you've completed in the saga. For example, Gianthold, you get 46K for doing 10 quests. It'd be great if you instead got 4.6K per quest you've completed. Of course this would be too simple, convenient, and fun. So they would understandably have to do what they do best, screw it up some to make it less good. They could take away XP based on the percentage of the quests you've completed. For example, in Gianthold if you only did 80% of the quests you'd only get 80% of the 4.6K per quest, which works out to ~3.7k per quest. 3.7K times 8 quests would be ~29K, quite a bit less than the 37K you'd get with the flat rate 4.6K per quest.

    The formula would be (number of quests completed / number of quests) * (full saga XP / number of quests) * number of quests completed. Complete 8 quests in GH and your saga reward would be (8/10) * (46,000/10) * 8 = 29,440 XP.

    For Gianthold your saga XP reward would look like this:

    1. 460
    2. 1,800
    3. 4,140
    4. 7,360
    5. 11,500
    6. 16,560
    7. 22,540
    8. 29,440
    9. 37,260
    10. 46,000


    They could simply continue require a complete saga for the non XP rewards.

    Obviously Gianthold wouldn't benefit all that much with this as there are only 10 quests and all of them are easily soloable. Yet it would still be nice for those times you can't find anyone to group with so you could just skip crucible and/or madstone, collect your reduced saga reward, and move on with your life. The Eveningstar sagas however would benefit tremendously from this!

    Alternatively, while sagas are great, I think a better way to go would be having every quest arc provide a list of tomes, named items, various other assorted special items, and XP stones to choose from. Not only would this remedy the situation above as the biggest heroic saga contains 5 different quest arcs, but every arc in the game would become its own mini saga.

    Now for the reality check... it's never going to happen. Because they sell XP in the store they only ever change XP to make it worse. New quests have more mobs, with more health and higher saves, and less XP. They did an Experience pass where they added a small percent of XP to a handful of extremely low XP quests, and anyone who understands percentages understands that a small percent of a small amount is a ridiculously small amount. For example for a 3K XP quest, a 10% increase is a scant 300 XP! WOOOOHOOO! That 3000 XP quest that wasn't worth running yesterday is now 3300 XP!!! TOTALLY WORTH IT NOW!!!

    Even though I understand they want to sell XP in the store, they really should do an honest XP overhaul though. Nothing like the last one where they took away large chunks of XP from the best quests and added back tiny bits of XP to the worst. They should look at the actual XP/min of all the quests in the game and then bring the ridiculously low XP/min in line with the average quests.

    Anyway, as I was saying, they're never going to do anything that makes getting XP faster or easier as long as players keep buying XP from the store. So the real reason I'm here is I'm wondering if/how players take advantage of the heroic level Eveningstar sagas. I was going to try to do the sagas this time around, but after only doing a few of them I'm two dots into 18. I'm pretty sure if I tried to finish the sagas I'd be 20 before I was done. The quests themselves, for the most part, have pretty low XP compared to old school quests in those level ranges. Additionally there are tons of high HP mobs with high saves, so they are harder to solo and take longer to complete.

    Is there a trick to make the Eveningstar heroic sagas worth it, or is it just something to do if you're bored and are looking for new some new scenery?

    One of the great things about this game is that there is a lot of choice in what you can do, really there is so much XP in the game at heroic these days that most of the content can be selectively skipped, that is not to say that the saga heroic rewards are pointless or useless. though I don't bother with the heroic Eveningstar saga much these days.
    It can be good for banking XP for ETRing later as with all sagas to give a quick boost to a new destiny or karma on one you don't like run harder content on with a particular build. load up the sagas then ETR and grab all the rewards, with an XP pot if you can, you get better value for your pot that way as the timer will not be ticking in public areas.

    On it's own it's prob not worth doing for XP, but if you are farming other stuff (mobs for MM or items) in the quests in the list and you are close to completing the saga then why not
    The renown can be used to level a guild, if that is something a player is into, some have/do use the sagas for that, loading up as many as they can on True Elite, then getting a renown pot and turning them all in.
    The higher level Heroic quests on the list can still pay out a reasonable amount of XP if done in the low to mid 20's and can be worth doing if your toon isn't up for harder content, plus a possible boost from the Monster Manual if you have them.

    Also if you haven't got all your skill tomes and don't want to buy them from the store you might get lucky in the reward list

    Basically as with a lot of this game it's a case of one man's meat and another man's poison

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    That gives me an idea!

    While I can't see the point in running heroic quests after you hit 20, I wonder if completing quests you still need for your heroic saga on epic would count toward the completion of the heroic saga? What goes up awards 16K XP on heroic, but in epic, even on just normal it awards 60K. So I just don't see any reason to finish the heroic saga after level 20 unless the quests on epic count, which would make the heroic saga a nice little bonus I guess.
    Nope, heroic quests only add to heroic sagas and epic only to epic.
    But sometimes the Stormhorns chain end reward on heroic has a ML28 named or ML28 BTCoE on it. and the High road chained reward list is always epic normal named stuff, which can be nice if feeding up a sentient weapon.
    Last edited by Brutuscass; 12-14-2019 at 04:04 PM.
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