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  1. #1
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    Default Heroic Completionist

    Dear SSG,


    I'd like to make the 42 PLs worth it. After all, I did them.

    My suggestion is as follows:-

    1x PLs (one of each): +2 Abilities & Skills.
    2x PLs (two of each): +3 Abilities & Skills.
    3x PLs (three of each): +4 Abilities & Skills

    And FREE! Simple really.

    Regards,
    Money Maker of Cannith.

  2. #2
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    I agree the feat for Completionnist should be granted for free, it's not fair that after all that work, some builds can't benefit as much as some others because they are starving for feats.

  3. #3
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    I agree to grant it without having to spend a feat slot. Not because feeling entitled, but because it is very unbalancing, some classes can naturally take it, because abundant feat slots (Art, Monk, Wiz, Ftr...), then Paladins, Druids, and Sorcerers, etc.. get the shaft.

    Saying nay for further buffs however, front loaded grinds are better, this is actually something I wish was consistent across all systems.

  4. #4
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    It should be a granted feat like racial completion. It shouldn't get any buffs to it, its fine as is.
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  5. #5
    Community Member Swimms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    It should be a granted feat like racial completion. It shouldn't get any buffs to it, its fine as is.
    Or you could leave it as it is for 1 of each class (feat you can choose if you wish) and then auto grant for 3x of each like racials. Just a thought
    Neurik of Argo.
    8 Ranger 8 Rogue 4 Arti Inquisitor Heroic TR build--> https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eroic-TR-build

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swimms View Post
    Or you could leave it as it is for 1 of each class (feat you can choose if you wish) and then auto grant for 3x of each like racials. Just a thought
    Yeah I agree with you, it should be autogranted once you have triple heroic. Keeps the carrot for more people to get all 3 lives more TRs win win for SSG and Players.
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    Yeah I agree with you, it should be autogranted once you have triple heroic. Keeps the carrot for more people to get all 3 lives more TRs win win for SSG and Players.

    Auto grant at 3x might be just enough of a carrot to tempt players. I stopped after 1x cuz the grind wasn't worth it. Maybe something for 2x in order to tempt players more. Then it'll be like, might as well do the rest since almost done anyways.

    Or something more powerful like Universal AP points at 3x. That would for sure make everyone do the grind. But that's added power creep.
    Last edited by Vulkoorex; 12-08-2019 at 11:25 AM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    I don't care what they do (for the most part) just make it auto granted already for heavens sake! Pretty please!

    Stoner81.

  9. #9
    Community Member darkniteyogi's Avatar
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    There is really little point in doing completionist other than for it being a personal goal, compared to what you can get with tomes and epic past lives which are easier to farm and more powerful.

    It would be a "minimal" buff to make it auto-granted. So its not like it would make or break anything. I think players just want a bit more "satisfaction" and I do think it definitely should be auto-granted.

    It's not like its even "hard" to code it.

    /signed

    you would have to grant 1x completionist though, before 2 and 3x. I think starting with 1 should be done first.
    Last edited by darkniteyogi; 12-08-2019 at 12:30 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkniteyogi View Post
    There is really little point in doing completionist other than for it being a personal goal, compared to what you can get with tomes and epic past lives which are easier to farm and more powerful.

    It would be a "minimal" buff to make it auto-granted. So its not like it would make or break anything. I think players just want a bit more "satisfaction" and I do think it definitely should be auto-granted.

    It's not like its even "hard" to code it.

    /signed

    you would have to grant 1x completionist though, before 2 and 3x. I think starting with 1 should be done first.
    Yeah i disagree, don't grant 1x, it should be a feat you have to take. it should auto grant on triple.
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  11. #11
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    Tin foil hat on - check.

    There is another thread (and many more in the past) about newbies getting a bit of help with getting some PL more easily as the slope is currently so steep. In all these threads a significant number of posters say that PLs are not needed and a first life toon is viable all the way to lvl30. So, why is more power required for getting heroic completionist?

    Tin foil hat removed, but kept close at hand.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedip View Post
    Tin foil hat on - check.

    There is another thread (and many more in the past) about newbies getting a bit of help with getting some PL more easily as the slope is currently so steep. In all these threads a significant number of posters say that PLs are not needed and a first life toon is viable all the way to lvl30. So, why is more power required for getting heroic completionist?

    Tin foil hat removed, but kept close at hand.
    It isn't needed, neither is new gear with the next pack, new races, new classes, new content, mounts, reaper, etc. It's wanted. A goal to progress towards, a sense of reward for effort (or cash) expended. Some don't see the value in most heroics, some only get one of each. A prize for getting 3x completionist is sensible since probably 50% of heroic pls aren't relevant to any given build, like spell pen, dc, and spell points on a non caster.

    New players don't need help getting past lives or any other freebie or power boost, they just need someone to play with which is rarer in this era of DDO.

  13. #13
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    One of the most powerful feats in the game, and you want if for free.

    And you already have the massive benefits of dozens of past lives, and expect even more benefit?

    I have a counter-proposal: make Complete Racist require a feat slot, and make the two not stack with each other.
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  14. #14
    Community Member OrodelaSol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    One of the most powerful feats in the game, and you want if for free.

    And you already have the massive benefits of dozens of past lives, and expect even more benefit?

    I have a counter-proposal: make Complete Racist require a feat slot, and make the two not stack with each other.
    Yeah because getting your 3x racial pls was so much fun no reward is needed... at least doing heroics you can stare at the toon of your liking for hours on end and not have to be a bloody dwarf or helf for 3 lives! but hey, there's a store solution for that now!
    Khyberite

  15. #15
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by thedip View Post
    Tin foil hat on - check.

    There is another thread (and many more in the past) about newbies getting a bit of help with getting some PL more easily as the slope is currently so steep. In all these threads a significant number of posters say that PLs are not needed and a first life toon is viable all the way to lvl30. So, why is more power required for getting heroic completionist?

    Tin foil hat removed, but kept close at hand.
    That is because some of those players are stuck in a tunnel looking at NEEEEEDEEED, while no one argues them about it, these bonuses are literally never needed to complete content, however they can make the next 50000 quest runs smoother nicer, and allow you to build weird things with less trade offs, aka let you progress horizontally too, shocker I know, DDO is all vertical uberness :P

    Plus, who needs PLs, just get an Xbow (pick your flavor) and YOLO__LFTBTNHOLD to the end chest. :P.

    You could actually complete content with all 6 starting stats and a +1 holy returning dart, it would just take an extreme amount of time and 1000 times more risk/minute :P.
    Last edited by janave; 12-09-2019 at 03:11 AM.

  16. #16
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    To the OP the same answer as every other time it got suggested: no, that's not necessary.

    Game design philosophy that makes for a more even playing environment with a better design space for quest content: More options for characters with lots of past lives: good. More free power: bad. The implementation of the completionist feat was spot on...

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    One of the most powerful feats in the game, and you want if for free.

    And you already have the massive benefits of dozens of past lives, and expect even more benefit?

    I have a counter-proposal: make Complete Racist require a feat slot, and make the two not stack with each other.
    ...the implementation of the racial completionist feat was VERY poor being so backloaded and grindy, encouraging people to not play for fun. I still think the best solution would have been to add a 'racial paragon' tree that you can spend racial action points in with cheap +stats/+skills in the cores, then a few options like dragonmarks etc. Single completionist unlocks it, multiple completionist means you have enough spare AP to make it worth using. Would have been a great equivalent (and would have left space to keep adding more racial AP for anyone who wants power creep).
    Nistafa on Khyber

  17. #17
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfishski View Post
    The implementation of the completionist feat was spot on...

    .
    Nop, it is not. Hugely game balance breaking, for any class with bonus feats, it is basically free, if not playing those classes it is not free.

    TLDR;

    It should either be automatically granted (equal for each class); Or Purchased on some most commonly equal ground, eg make it cost action points or something that is equal across classes.

    There is no single reason to penalize a Paladin over a Fighter..., many more examples are available but this is pretty extreme to see why it is wrong right now.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Nop, it is not. Hugely game balance breaking, for any class with bonus feats, it is basically free, if not playing those classes it is not free.

    TLDR;

    It should either be automatically granted (equal for each class); Or Purchased on some most commonly equal ground, eg make it cost action points or something that is equal across classes.

    There is no single reason to penalize a Paladin over a Fighter..., many more examples are available but this is pretty extreme to see why it is wrong right now.
    Yeah, you're quite correct it's not equally good for each class but while you always want to take it, it's hardly game breaking for balance if you can't fit it in on your feat-starved paladin or bard. You don't have to look too hard for something more "game balance breaking", whatever that is to you (I vote Inquisitive this season)!

    The point is that it's an extra option, mostly a good option, and has an opportunity cost, and those factors make it better design. We already got all our free permanent perks from the TRs themselves
    Nistafa on Khyber

  19. #19
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfishski View Post
    Yeah, you're quite correct it's not equally good for each class but while you always want to take it, it's hardly game breaking for balance if you can't fit it in on your feat-starved paladin or bard. You don't have to look too hard for something more "game balance breaking", whatever that is to you (I vote Inquisitive this season)!

    The point is that it's an extra option, mostly a good option, and has an opportunity cost, and those factors make it better design. We already got all our free permanent perks from the TRs themselves
    You just defined the problem. For some classes it is essentially a freebie ( meaning you dont have to give up essential feats for it), for other classes it may or may not be a good alternative.

    I Vote staph with the BS class bias, and do the professional game designer act here, even if that ends up deleting the feat outright (I currently have it so a loser here).

    The completionist feat is a meta achievement (play one class each to earn it), if anything it should be an account feature for each new character we make. Again, im not proposing it, id like these ignorant types of rewards erased from the multiverse.

  20. #20
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    For classes and builds that don't use dc, the completionist feat is kinda meh and looking at the stats at lv 30 they barelly make a dent.

    on an uber completionist melee, decked out in the best gear, who doesn't use dc's, the difference between say, precision and a +2 to all stats is very noticible.
    One of these feats will come in to play far more.....

    So, for me, i wouldn't mind the completionist becomming free after doing them 3 times. As it would open up build options.

    Maybe copying the feat list and making completionist versions out of them.

    Completionist cleave, just like the regular one, add +2 to all stats and skills, adds random collors or animations to said cleave attack.

    Only one of said feats should be allowed to be picked up after becomming a triple heroic completionist

    This way it becommes a nice visual that entices people to get the same feat.


    Then again the track record on quality of life upgrades isn't as good as the "line our pockets with op gimicks to overcome unballanced content" track record, so i wouldn't expect any positve change around the heroic completionist feat any time soon
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