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  1. #1
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    Default What's with all the anonymous LFMs?

    So I'm scrolling through the LFM panel and there is no way to tell if I'm dealing with a party of 5 or 1 guy who can't get his group to fill.

    What's up with that? What's the motivation? Because I am much less likely to group up if I can't see what I'm getting into.

    I think we would have more grouping if that was eliminated.

  2. #2
    Community Member Drecas's Avatar
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    One of Turbine's attempts at combating lag. The "Who" list on your social tab used to automatically load every time you logged in, they thought it created a lot of lag. Now you need to manually load it, by clicking on it, doing this also gets rid of the anonymous LFMS.

  3. #3
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    Oh cool. You're saying all I have to do is load up that list and I can see into all the LFMs?

    I don't think new players are aware of this....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisulven7 View Post
    Oh cool. You're saying all I have to do is load up that list and I can see into all the LFMs?

    I don't think new players are aware of this....
    Agree, I have even said so before. Having a mysteriously broken LFM panel does not help when they have both a newbie retention problem and a lack of LFMs.

  5. #5
    Community Member Rauven's Avatar
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    One possible solution would be to include some text, possibly even an overlay on the LFM tab, that informs one to load the Who tab in order to populate the LFM tab.

  6. #6
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    I can not for the life of me understand why they have not made it so opening the LFM panel also loads in the names of players online.

    That you have to open the who tab to populate the LFM panel is completely ridiculous. It does not make any sense whatsoever.

  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragavon View Post
    I can not for the life of me understand why they have not made it so opening the LFM panel also loads in the names of players online.

    That you have to open the who tab to populate the LFM panel is completely ridiculous. It does not make any sense whatsoever.
    While it is an inconvenience form the front end user standpoint, It makes sense from the back end stand point that it loads from the same database. In order to address hilariously long load in times they stopped the database from loading all of the names automatically on first log in. This resulted in the names from that database not populating in any UI that pulls from that DB.

    The choice to load the DB or not is on the player. They can open the LFM tool to start their own LFM without having to load the entire DB. This includes when they are in quests during times they dont want to be dealing with the lag it causes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    While it is an inconvenience form the front end user standpoint, It makes sense from the back end stand point that it loads from the same database. In order to address hilariously long load in times they stopped the database from loading all of the names automatically on first log in. This resulted in the names from that database not populating in any UI that pulls from that DB.

    The choice to load the DB or not is on the player. They can open the LFM tool to start their own LFM without having to load the entire DB. This includes when they are in quests during times they dont want to be dealing with the lag it causes.
    No it doesn't. Nothing about this makes sense, either from a usability or technical design perspective.

    We are talking about 1000 visible players tops, assuming 20 character names on average, that is 20KB. 20KB that could be cached on the server without a DB lookup. You could transmit that in seconds back in 1995. If it took a long time, that seems more like a case of awful implementation. Why does it need to send all the logged in players anyway just to show the 15 that are currently in LFMs? So, they had an awful implementation and they intentionally broke it and never bothered to properly fix it.

    I think SSG, and Turbine before them, gets a lot of flak they don't deserve (hello horses), but severe technical glitches like this that stay around forever (hello lag!) is definitely not one them.

    A simple fix, if that is what it takes, could be to automatically load it when you open the social panel instead. Or make a button with "Refresh LFMs".

    EDIT: In light of Cordovan's reply it might have nothing to do with lag, but the suggested remedies could still work.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 12-06-2019 at 11:32 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drecas View Post
    One of Turbine's attempts at combating lag. The "Who" list on your social tab used to automatically load every time you logged in, they thought it created a lot of lag. Now you need to manually load it, by clicking on it, doing this also gets rid of the anonymous LFMS.
    This change back in the day was not about lag per se, but rather resolved the issue where players had to log in twice each time they wanted to play, and would get booted upon initial load in. Dubbed "the double-log-in bug", it was a big deal, and this resolved it for most folks.
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  10. #10
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about programming, but I can say this was really concerning when I came back ~3 years ago. It makes it look like the game is in poor repair. Which is too bad, because after playing for the last few years I think development is in a great place.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  11. #11
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    aka. "the broken LFM window theory"

  12. #12
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This change back in the day was not about lag per se, but rather resolved the issue where players had to log in twice each time they wanted to play, and would get booted upon initial load in. Dubbed "the double-log-in bug", it was a big deal, and this resolved it for most folks.
    I understand that, but why does not opening the lfm tab trigger loading characters, so you can see who is in the groups? The current implementation is ridiculous.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This change back in the day was not about lag per se, but rather resolved the issue where players had to log in twice each time they wanted to play, and would get booted upon initial load in. Dubbed "the double-log-in bug", it was a big deal, and this resolved it for most folks.
    That change was much appreciated. Could we update the system, however, to automatically load the Who list every time we open up the LFM page? Rather than having to first go to the Who tab and then the LFM tab can we make the Who list update when looking at either the Who tab or the LFM tab? Having to look at both isn't too much of an inconvenience for those of us that know we have to look at both, but for people that have not yet learned why the LFM list doesn't show most of the players, the current situation creates a real problem.

  14. #14
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    No it doesn't. Nothing about this makes sense, either from a usability or technical design perspective.

    We are talking about 1000 visible players tops, assuming 20 character names on average, that is 20KB. 20KB that could be cached on the server without a DB lookup. You could transmit that in seconds back in 1995. If it took a long time, that seems more like a case of awful implementation. Why does it need to send all the logged in players anyway just to show the 15 that are currently in LFMs? So, they had an awful implementation and they intentionally broke it and never bothered to properly fix it.

    I think SSG, and Turbine before them, gets a lot of flak they don't deserve (hello horses), but severe technical glitches like this that stay around forever (hello lag!) is definitely not one them.

    A simple fix, if that is what it takes, could be to automatically load it when you open the social panel instead. Or make a button with "Refresh LFMs".

    EDIT: In light of Cordovan's reply it might have nothing to do with lag, but the suggested remedies could still work.
    I'll simplify how it makes sense.

    Issue with loading DB occurs > Players complain they shouldnt be forced to load a DB on specific action > company gives players THE OPTION for when they want to deal with the DB loading > players no longer complain. (or no longer complain to anywhere near the degree they did before).

    If they took your feedback and implemented it, youd be forcing a DB load on LFM panel rather than on log in, and players would complain again.

    I do agree with you that loading a DB shouldnt be causing such an issue (we were doing full on server wide /who searches in EQ ~1998 in beta without such an issue occurring, then in mid 2000s expanded it to game wide) but once the issue and cause of the issue rears its head, giving the players the option of when they want to load the DB brings the noise level on the issue down to a minimum.

    In other news, bugs which have a work around often get prioritized to the bottom of the barrel compared to bugs which create "show stopping" issues. The issue of course is spread that over ~14 years of time and players now have to become living breathing spreadsheets for how to work around every little pesky issue which did not get resolved over years of time due to there being a work around.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-06-2019 at 12:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    This change back in the day was not about lag per se, but rather resolved the issue where players had to log in twice each time they wanted to play, and would get booted upon initial load in. Dubbed "the double-log-in bug", it was a big deal, and this resolved it for most folks.
    You all really should add some kind of text explanation to the LFM though. New players, or just those who missed the explanation on the forums when it was done years ago, are never going to know how to load the LFM descriptions, or will just assume it is bugged, and will be stuck with an LFM that doesn't quite work as a result. Like what happened to the OP here.
    Last edited by axel15810; 12-06-2019 at 12:31 PM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    One thing I can say with certainty is the "ghost lfm" bug started the day public lfms were introduced.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  17. #17
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    Having the LFM panel populate when the social panel first opens is indeed the likely solution, but that work has not yet been done.
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  18. #18
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    Don't hate, its a 12 step leveling process. Welcome to LFM anonymous.

    Hello, I'm Vorachtin and I like to xp.
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  19. #19
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    One thing I can say with certainty is the "ghost lfm" bug started the day public lfms were introduced.
    I never understood the "public LFM's". It's more of an annoyance than anything.
    Leader of Legion of Eberron on Cannith.

    Characters: Loromir & Baldomir....among others.

  20. #20
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    I was puzzled by this when I came back and wasn't aware of the solution, so thanks for posting!

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