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Thread: Beat the Lag!

  1. #1
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    Post Beat the Lag!

    BLUF: Restart your client! Often. And before raids.


    Players will blindly argue about this. So consider:

    - Servers and clients do not operate independently.

    - Both servers and clients leak (i.e. memory consumption increases the longer client or server is active). Hence the biweekly server restarts.

    - Players only have control over the client.

    - If the ‘server’ is causing widespread issues, bloated clients just make it worse.

    - Overflow in the server, or even a single client, can impact performance.

    - Some areas are more prone to lag (eg. Yester Hill, Shroud, Baba, Thunderholme)

    - A few years of ad-hoc analysis shows that clients that have grown in memory consumption by as little as 10% since first quest may start experiencing issues. Switching toons can cause issues too.

    - Only completely exiting the client resets it. Hard kill the client if necessary. CTRL-ALT-DEL accesses your Task Manager, where you can check memory consumption and kill the DDO application. If the TM is already up, you can ALT-TAB to it.

    - That “cleaning up connection” message you may get while relogging is an indication that your traffic layer was congested (ala your client).

    - Worst case, you many need to shut down other bloaty apps (e.g. browsers) or restart your PC, router, or wi-fi. Shutting down hardware overnight is best.
    If your party freshens their clients, you’ve done all you can. Yes, you have time to do this before the raid.

    - Clients reset works 80% of the time. But in notable exception today, TH slayers managed to crash G-Land and was still unplayable even after everyone relogged. Sarlona connections seemed iffy too. In this case the problem is some combo of the server, an ex-party client, and certain scenarios. Give the game a rest or try a diff scenario.

    Q: But why can’t the server just ignore the laggy clients so the rest of us can play lag-free?
    A: That would be a huge hole for exploits.

    Q: I hate paying for constant resets. Can't we get good code?
    A: The past several years there has been more effort on this. But the standard in commercial, non-mission-critical coding is to let the community fully test it. Not to spend $$$ building up automated test rigs or hiring an army of SSG testers. Those costs would pass on to players.

    Good Luck!
    Last edited by Galac; 12-03-2019 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    Players will blindly argue about this.
    I will argue but not blindly.

    It's not my client and I can prove it.

    Tonight I was in TH fighting monsters and lag. It got so bad that I decided to recall and do something else but was unable to. I closed down the client (had to force it) and then, knowing that if I just logged back in I would still be in TH, I logged on to a different server, logged into a toon, rolled daily dice, and logged out. I then went back to my regular server and couldn't log in, I had the Cleaning Up Old Connections thing going on. I tried a different server and then back again to my regular server. Same again. I repeated this process for half an hour and then someone on Discord told me that I had just logged out of Guild Chat, I was able to log in on my next attempt.

    This turn of events could not possibly have been due to my client. The issue is with the server.

    Please feel free to disagree as long as you can outline a credible reason why this could be client-related.

  3. #3
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    This is full of hearsay and unlikely claims. While restarting the client could conceivably help, it will be unlikely to help others, and don't get me started on restarting the computer...

    As far as I know, we don't even know if the server restarts are due to server-side memory leaks. Yes, it is plausible, but there could be other causes (e.g. some DB, cache or connection pool not being properly refreshed). Until the devs come out and explain the cause of the lag, I'm going to call ******** on all of these lag "self-help" guides.

    Might as well sacrifice a goat.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 12-03-2019 at 06:15 PM.

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    See the Thunderholme exception noted above.

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    Doesn't matter if the server restarts are due to connection congestion, mem leaks, or whatnot. I am sticking to what has often worked for me with the clients over the past two years. Although the probs today on G-Land seem unusual.

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    The client causes problems if you log in multiple characters without completely closing it but that's a completely different problem from our current lag, which is entirely server side.

    If I have to perform a religious placebo ritual while clutching my anti-lag charm and muttering prayers to my ISP, I will find a new game instead. How bout instead of blaming the customer SSG gets more server resources (the real problem). It's obvious that there's a correlation between opening the HC server and severe lag and degraded performance on the normal servers, 2 for 2 so far. If that wasn't the case it would be reasonable to look for other causes and solutions.

  7. #7
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    @ OP this is all valid points but for the currently situation, from my experience, sadly, completely irrelevant.

    I have a toon I want to get to 5k fav so I can use a +6 upgrade sitting in bank before TR into a build im looking forward too.

    As its no fun to grind leftovers at cap, I am not doing it at my evening/early night Europe playtime, which equals US afternoon to US early/late eve but rather during Europe afternoons (=US mornings), after work, inbetween household chores in sessions of 2-3 quests per go.

    servers are moderately empty at that time slot, at best 50% of peak hours.
    I do not switch any toons. I load the client up, log into the toon, directly enter quest or relevant area (most of the time I park before the next quest or area when I log out of a session). there is minimal zoning. there is minimal bank interaction. I just vendor some trash, if, which happens rarely, I bother picking it up even.

    regardless, soloing, as described above, it lags, badly. when a group of 6 to 10 mobs ahead of me activates, I freeze out 1-2 sec. my cometfall comes down on theit spawn spot, it looks like it lands solidly - then the world glitches, the mob group sorta time skips 3-5 meters closer to me, the spell did not hit or only hit half of them. when I destruct individual mobs, there will be 1 sec delay, always. especially notable is mob groups that spawn out of thin air, i.e. bats or mephits in sleeping dust. also very well visible with wolfs and similar animation mobs which have jerky movement animation anyways, almost never hit them with a ray spell on the first go.

    in places where lag has always been an issue in the past, or otherwise known as having issues, stuff will lock out for 5-15 seconds of rubberband, float up if jumping, nothing hitting, heals going of not at all or with some 5-10 sec delay.


    this happens solo, when freshly loged into the game, just this afternoon. it happend several times in 3 short play sessions which all were run on a freshly booted up client. at times even freshly booted PC as I was out inbetween.


    it's pathetically broken, just like it has been now and then in the past.


    your points may slightly alleviate suffering or minimally reduce annoyance when grouping, or raiding, maybe make a raid not fail while still being a pita.

    but when solo play on fresh log-ins glitches this badly something surely is broken on the server side ...


    all this, btw, at fully stable 110-115ms, fully stable 0.0% loss (not the routing this time) and fully stable above 55 fps ...
    Last edited by Eryhn; 12-03-2019 at 06:50 PM.

  8. #8
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    Ehyrn,

    Reminds me of my experience on a Mac, pre-SSD. What is your config?
    Last edited by Galac; 12-04-2019 at 09:15 AM.

  9. #9
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    The lag is now huge and entirely on SSG. All guild members online right now (12+) are just hanging out on guild ship because no one can get into an instance. Several are talking about canceling subs because it has lately become unplayable and not fun. They are currently debating what game to move to. This is really bad and needs to be addressed soon.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    Maybe try changing game settings? Reinstall?
    How about you just accept that people are having problems with lag that are not related to logging out/in toons and stop doubling down. The lag is awful and has been getting progressively worse since the last update, this is a fact, and your completely unhelpful guide on how to avoid lag is completely unhelpful.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    Ehyrn,
    You' have a solo lag problem that I don't experience. Maybe try changing game settings? Reinstall?
    So when my guildies and I experience synchronised lag, even though we're playing on other sides of the world, it's still a client-side problem? Really?

  12. #12
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    Lots of misdirected anger.

    Again, much of today's lag is the 20% that is 'server-related'. Havent seen that for a while, on Sarlona at least. Given the lack of updates the past week -- and that this was problematic on at least two servers -- it makes me think they tweaked the servers the wrong way during restarts. When SSG recovers, I hope we will be back to the 'usual lag'.

    Either way, those of you who wish to roll the dice on stale clients -- feel free.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    Lots of misdirected anger.
    There is no misdirected anger, there is no anger at all. What there is is frustration that I and many other people cannot play a game that they and myself pay for the privilege of playing without the fun being removed due to lag. Your guide may be helpful to some people who don't know about the memory leak when switching toons but in this instance it is irrelevant. Logging out of the game, restarting the client, sacrificing a goat won't cure this lag. What will cure it is if SSG initially acknowledge the issue, look for the cause and find a solution, and then implement it.

  14. #14
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    And until fixes occur, we have workarounds. Restarting my client either solves my problem or verifies a server issue.

    Please stick to the community guidelines in your posts.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    Might as well sacrifice a goat.
    ... can we do that?

    Cause I've got an extra one.

  16. #16
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    Ehyrn,


    You' have a solo lag problem that I don't experience. Maybe try changing game settings? Reinstall?

    the stuff I described above does not happen 100%. it does however happen frequently enough during low population and on a fresh boot client to show it is highly likely the current trouble people are experiencing is more likely server end than client end.


    there have been long periods of times after ravenloft and also, to some extent after sharn where the game ran totally normal for me. yes in this show we get there always is some minor issues and sadly we have gotten used to them - so "totally normal" is relative - but yeah, I DO know, and DO normally get a working, normal game experience with my hardware, connection, settings and client.

    I cannot put my finger on when exactly things started degrading to the current state but somewhere around soul splitter / hardcore league / borderlands things got worse for me. BTW you can see that SSG is aware of issues being there from them switching to twice a week restarts some time ago. Just, they don't openly answer to threads like this as apparently on lag they still prefer to stick their head in the sand. I assume it's a long trained habit of approaching this topic over the years that's apparently hard to break with ...


    anyways these things said, I could reinstall just to be 100% sure but I deem the success chance of that unlikely, too many people currently complain. unless u wanna go build a case for a large part of players somehow miracolusly having fubared client installs lol ...


    as things currently are, given the usual unwillingness to stop everything else to at least try fix a bad situation, I'd agree with what somebody else somewhere suggested, do restarts more often.

    Monday, Wednesday, Friday I guess?

  17. #17
    Community Member Swimms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    BLUF:




    - That “cleaning up connection” message you may get while relogging is an indication that your traffic layer was congested (ala your client).


    Good Luck!
    I'm am just going to call BS on most of your post here. What is this mysterious "traffic layer" you are referring to exactly? Entirely unhelpful post that you could have saved time by simply saying "quit and restart your DDO client if you switch toons frequently". I can assure you, the general uptick in lag has nothing to do with my client/router/pc/cable modem, etc and any amount of rebooting of those devices will not improve the recent lag we have been experiencing. I know this because I have the rig to run other internet based programs in the background that I can alt/tab to and play just fine while DDO experiences crippling lag. A smart toaster would probably have the horsepower to run DDO.
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  18. #18
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    So, what he had said does make sense - to a certain point.

    Let's take my case, for instance. I currently run a freshly-built PC (i9 9900k, RTX 2080ti, 64GB DDR4, all running on 3TB of M.2 SSDs), and I get pretty terrible lag. Oh, did I mention that I also have Gigabit internet, too? There should be ZERO reason as to why I have lag, except with issues on their end. Just to clear the air, I'm a Network Administrator by trade, so, I'm not too concerned with my network at home.

    Now, here is where his input comes into play. Yes, if you have an older/aged system, slower than average internet, or just a crappy home network - then yes, the problem could be starting with you. And yes, the DDO servers/network does have to compensate for that - therefore bringing lag/issues to other folks. With that said, it should not be as bad as it is...
    Have y'all ever been to the Vault?


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    Doom,

    Certainly a weak rig could contribute to one's (or others') performance issues.

    Having a great rig does not guarantee joy. Because of the client code and consequent bloat; the solution for that is 'their end' but is an issue for all. At least we have some limited insight into the client.

    What a good rig does is to eliminate a HW/network infrastructure x-factor as far as lag goes.

    I have also noticed that the client seems to partial load sometimes; the memory consumption in TM is extremely low in this case, and I can still suffer performance issues.
    Last edited by Galac; 12-04-2019 at 09:31 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galac View Post
    Doom,

    Certainly a weak rig could contribute to one's (or others') performance issues.

    Having a great rig does not guarantee joy. Because of the client code and consequent bloat; the solution for that is 'their end' but is an issue for all. At least we have some limited insight into the client.

    What a good rig does is to eliminate a HW/network infrastructure x-factor as far as lag goes.

    I have also noticed that the client seems to partial load sometimes; the memory consumption in TM is extremely low in this case, and I can still suffer performance issues.
    Oh, for sure.

    Adding to that, this is an older game for sure. The lack of optimizations can also hinder the ability to play as fluidly as one would expect. All I'm saying is that I have a few monitors installed on my computer that detects memory leak, packet loss, etc. and sadly, most of the issues point towards the service rather than the machine.

    For example, I played a few days back for about 4 hours or so. I had a leak percentage of 1.3% (very low), yet I had an inbound packet loss of 33% on average. After noticing that, I enabled a packet tracer on my home network and had the data saved to a PowerEdge server that I host a few games on, and, it ended up being an issue stemming from their servers.
    Have y'all ever been to the Vault?


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