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  1. #1
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Devs; you said EiN was a major cause of lag

    But now, after it’s nerf, we are experiencing more lag than ever.

  2. #2
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    I was very vocal in opposing the EIN nerf. I never saw any lag related to it and through many talks ingame neither has anybody else. I dont mind the change, but i honestly laugh when we have lag and nobody uses EIN. Sometimes i even blame the lag on EIN even when nobody uses it. EIN today is a normal ability with no epicness too it at all. Instead of using this to save a party in danger of wiping, i pop it off whenever its ready to speed things along.

    Maybe there is something behind the scenes causing lag from EIN, but i am still not on board with that theory.

    Nico

  3. #3
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    Attributing one possible (and then resolved) cause of lag as the cause of all sources of lag is an erroneous train of thought. "Lag" in the broad sense is unlikely to ever be caused by nor solved by one thing.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Attributing one possible (and then resolved) cause of lag as the cause of all sources of lag is an erroneous train of thought. "Lag" in the broad sense is unlikely to ever be caused by nor solved by one thing.
    The most laggy places in this game;

    Thrill of the Hunt (and Wheloon in general)
    Temple of the Deathwyrm
    Baba (when totem shadows spawn)
    Curse of Strahd (when shadows spawn)
    THTH
    KT Nytherios fight

    All these dungeons have massive amounts of incorporeal mobs, and generally start lagging when said mobs appear.

    Delete shadows and let’s see what it does to lag overall.

    Your game is playable on wendsday and Thursday. By the time the weekend comes the servers are a complete mess.
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 11-25-2019 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Attributing one possible (and then resolved) cause of lag as the cause of all sources of lag is an erroneous train of thought. "Lag" in the broad sense is unlikely to ever be caused by nor solved by one thing.
    Correct. DDO's ever present lag is no doubt the sum of many smaller factors which have been neglected and unfixed year after year.

    I think the point of the EiN comments though is that a) due to multiple, repeated nerfs of the monk class in general and b) of EiN specifically, the overall count of monks who actively use EiN and who would thus contribute to the overall sum of noticeable lag is mostly insignificant.

    It's great to see the devs "fix" something that causes lag, it's just a shame that they chose to fix something that provided virtually no in-game improvement to the sum of DDO's lag.

    Additionally, when it is already well known that lag in DDO is fairly ubiquitous, odds are really good that continuing to add new end-game content which rely on precisely-timed mechanics where failing said precise timing kills you will increase overall player dissatisfaction. Yet, said content continues to added rather than a serious, concerted effort by the devs to track down and eliminate significant portions of the sum of the lag.

    For example, it's been known for years that shadow type mobs cause noticeable lag in DDO, yet new content containing shadows continues to be added without fixing the source of the shadows' lag. Why? It seems there are two obvious solutions to this problem. Take some dev time to find and fix the shadow-related lag OR if shadow-lag can't be fixed (for *reasons*), STOP ADDING SHADOW MOBS IN THE NEW CONTENT. Pretty sure a vast majority of DDO players would be perfectly fine if every shadow mob in the game was replaced by a skeleton, zombie, a stick-man, or a rainbow pony if it helped measurably reduce the persistent lag in DDO.

    The EiN "fix" made no measurable in-game reduction to lag, yet the ability is now lesser than it was before. In fact, lag has been getting worse post-EiN fix, even with twice weekly restarts. That is the crux of the complaints.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    The most laggy places in this game;

    Thrill of the Hunt
    Temple of the Deathwyrm
    Baba (when totem shadows spawn)
    Curse of Strahd (when shadows spawn)
    THTH
    KT Nytherios fight

    All these dungeons have massive amounts of incorporeal mobs, and generally start lagging when said mobs appear.

    Delete shadows and let’s see what it does to lag overall.

    Your game is playable on wendsday and Thursday. By the time the weekend comes the servers are a complete mess.
    Even teleporting mobs like devils create big lag, like u have in DOJO (was terrible at start)
    I must say Fire on Thunder peaks is less laggy even with 40+ mobs. Never had lag in von5 (that is huge and many split in groups)

    The wilderness of thunderholme is unplayable if 12 players are inside.

    For me is a final fight between thunderholme wilderness and temple fo deathwyrm last fight.

    I stopped playing deathwyrm after 3-4 times, it was stil a pain
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    The most laggy places in this game;

    Thrill of the Hunt (and Wheloon in general)
    Temple of the Deathwyrm
    Baba (when totem shadows spawn)
    Curse of Strahd (when shadows spawn)
    THTH
    KT Nytherios fight

    All these dungeons have massive amounts of incorporeal mobs, and generally start lagging when said mobs appear.

    Delete shadows and let’s see what it does to lag overall.

    Your game is playable on Wednesday and Thursday. By the time the weekend comes the servers are a complete mess.
    LShroud after almost every phase finishes (although that's rarely deadly except at end of the raid).
    TH wildy if you have >6 players spread around doing S/R/E.

    LShroud has few to no enemies when it's lagging, and TH has very few incorporeal enemies. So maybe it's not just one cause?
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    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    So maybe it's not just one cause?
    Bingo :)
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  9. #9
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    So maybe it's not just one cause?
    Nerfing EiN made it worse.

    Time to move on to other sources since the most recent one was a sum negative.

    I recommend starting with shadows.

    Deleting INQ would also probably be a good step too.

    I’d prefer a functional game that I could enjoy with more than 20 fps. The devs don’t seem to share the same concern for customer satisfaction. The devs seem to think that having multiple sources of rage-inducing lag spikes that grind the game to a standstill is A-OK!

    Glad we had this discussion.
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 11-25-2019 at 06:58 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    But now, after it’s nerf, we are experiencing more lag than ever.
    That's because they didn't nerf it enough. Tree-form it, and the lag associated will zero out.

  11. #11
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    That's because they didn't nerf it enough. Tree-form it, and the lag associated will zero out.
    Throw in DXB and I’m 100% on board.
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 11-25-2019 at 04:55 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Nerfing EiN made it worse.

    Time to move on to other sources since the most recent one was a sum negative.

    I recommend starting with shadows.

    Deleting INQ would also probably be a good step too.

    I’d prefer a functional game that I could enjoy with more than 20 fps. The devs don’t seem to share the same concern for customer satisfaction. The devs seem to think that having multiple sources of rage-inducing lag spikes that grind the game to a standstill is A-OK!

    Glad we had this discussion.
    Uhh.. If you're talking FPS lag then that's a whole 'nother beast. This is *the* problem with the majority of threads going on about lag.

    What kind? Because saying "everyone is having tons of lag" suggests it's a server/connection issue, but you bringing up FPS points to something completely and utterly different in every way. FPS lag is not the same beast as the sort of lag that abilities like EiN likely contributed to (warlock auras in the past, excessive calcs, etc.)

    The instances where FPS lag is universal and uniform tend to be relatively rare - lookin' at you Black Loch. I sure as heck have never had substantial or consistent problems with FPS in DDO performance-wise outside of a specific case like Black Loch, or with older bugs (like when stat recalc's locked you for a few seconds). It generally performs pretty okay. If you're having specific FPS-related issues in all parts of the game you should look at many places for troubleshooting before reaching the point of complaining about an EiN lag fix on the forums.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    Uhh.. If you're talking FPS lag then that's a whole 'nother beast. This is *the* problem with the majority of threads going on about lag.
    I think you're definitely not understanding. <3

    The lag in wheloon and other things mentioned by Shadow is when the server freezes and your whole party has to stand still until they're dead!

    It definitely affects newer content the most, so many people TRing a lot don't experience it as much as those who are at endgame.
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
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  14. #14
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    There is a big difference between client side lag, which most often is caused by heavy gfx settings on a toaster.
    (Btw, somehow lowering the settings also causes a massive drop in frames per second instead of the opposite while still on the same machine, so odd almosty as if the game hard caps the frames per second based on those settings and then just inverses the number of frames.)
    And the server side lag, which mostly is cause my object location and status(es) tracking.
    (At least that's what we've received reports on from the dev team over time.)
    Lag for most of us is hardly caused by routing over the various internet hops unless some ddos is going on or a power outtake.
    (Not taking into account remote areas that rely on a satellite.)

  15. #15
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Not network latency but..

    About 8 from every 10 players I played with experience game performance problems in Wrath of the Earth -- Yester Hill, I strongly doubt this is an accident... found the best performance on the least supported platform..weird quest. Otherwise stable 59-60 Frames Per Second down to 2-5. It also depends on instance, i get some instances to play at around 20-25FPS which is borderline enough to complete the quest, usually dropping back to EE so reaper spawns dont add to further slowdowns.

    Similar problems in Into the Mist and Raven's bane, about 25-30 FPS instead of the 59-60 elsewhere in the game. Same level of detail, same PC, same background app load (tiny if at all). Highly optimized Windows10 environment, several times over the recommended hardware configuration.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    LShroud after almost every phase finishes (although that's rarely deadly except at end of the raid).
    TH wildy if you have >6 players spread around doing S/R/E.

    LShroud has few to no enemies when it's lagging, and TH has very few incorporeal enemies. So maybe it's not just one cause?
    Shroud lag happens at the end of phases because that's when the loot is generated, it's not the same sort of lag. TH has shadows on various levels, I don't think that equates to "very few". I agree with Shadow_Jumper on the sources of lag, for the most part it's shadows, in THTH it's either Skulls or Cogs transforming into Forgewraiths.

  17. #17
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    By the way, "EIN" means "ONE" in German language.
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Nerfing EiN made it worse.

    Time to move on to other sources since the most recent one was a sum negative.

    I recommend starting with shadows.

    Deleting INQ would also probably be a good step too.

    I’d prefer a functional game that I could enjoy with more than 20 fps. The devs don’t seem to share the same concern for customer satisfaction. The devs seem to think that having multiple sources of rage-inducing lag spikes that grind the game to a standstill is A-OK!

    Glad we had this discussion.
    Everything in this post is either supposition or opinion, yet it is being presented as fact.

    I am also glad we had this discussion.

  19. #19
    Micki's Delirium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    The most laggy places in this game;

    Thrill of the Hunt (and Wheloon in general)
    Temple of the Deathwyrm
    Baba (when totem shadows spawn)
    Curse of Strahd (when shadows spawn)
    THTH
    KT Nytherios fight

    All these dungeons have massive amounts of incorporeal mobs, and generally start lagging when said mobs appear.

    Delete shadows and let’s see what it does to lag overall.

    Your game is playable on wendsday and Thursday. By the time the weekend comes the servers are a complete mess.
    I would have said Defiler of the Just, especially on elite and up and it seems to be related to 1. the blades and 2. the amount of mobs (and how long it takes you to kill them).

    The ambush at the gate has been a 100% chance to lag out and we've been lucky if we don't wipe there. I would just spam my healing spells as well as burst and hope for the best.

    It has gotten a little bit better but the ambush is still laggy.
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  20. #20

    Lightbulb lightbulbs

    how about giving favored souls their lightbulbs back? Devs claimed it caused lag but i never once in the years i was playing heard anyone complain about lag from archons. I always thought it was a cool addition to the class, only for it to be stripped away...
    Crank it out!

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