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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Melee SWF/Trapper/Support build, Clr17/Art3

    I'm about to TR my first life melee Cleric, and I want to do something interesting with the second life, so I've been toying with this idea.

    • Decent DCs on trapping and locking that I can solo or fill that party slot, along with True Seeing from falconry.
    • Rune Arm gives a little damage boost to SWF, plus an extra slot to craft without needing swashbuckling.
    • War domain gives proficiency with BS/Khopesh
    • If it really does suck in melee, Wisdom focus and level 9 spells means it won't suck as a healbot.
    • Uses Harper/Int for melee until the Wisdom breakpoint (8th) then switches to Falconry.

    Frankly it wouldn't hurt to have more jump and/or balance but I just can't find the skillpoints without losing caster levels.
    Any advice, ideas for gear, glaring errors that I've missed, solicited and welcome!

    *Edit 1: Yes, search will be useful for a trapper >.<
    *Edit 2: More attention paid to front-ending DPS and early levelling.


    Clr17/Art3SWF
    Chaotic Good Human


    Level Order

    1. Artificer . . . 6. Cleric. . . . .11. Cleric. . . . .16. Cleric
    2. Cleric . . . . .7. Cleric . . . . 12. Cleric . . . . 17. Cleric
    3. Cleric . . . . .8. Cleric . . . . 13. Cleric . . . . 18. Cleric
    4. Cleric . . . . .9. Cleric . . . . 14. Cleric . . . . 19. Cleric
    5. Artificer . . .10. Cleric. . . . .15. Cleric. . . . .20. Artificer



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .34pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 10. . . .+3. . . .4: WIS
    Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+2. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 14. . . .+2. . . 12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 18. . . .+2. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .+2. . . 20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+2. . .



    Skills
    . . . . . A .C .C .C .A. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. A
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .23
    Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .23
    UMD . . . 4 . . . . . 4 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2 .23
    Heal. . . 2 .3 .1 .1 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . . . 21
    Open Lo . 4 . . . .1 .3. 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . .1 .6. 19
    Balance . 2 . . 1. ½. ½ . . . . . . . . . . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . . . . . 7
    Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 2 .½ .½ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
    Haggle. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .36 .8 .8 .8 10 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 10



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .1 Human. : Quicken Spell
    .3. . . . : Power Attack
    .6. . . . : Cleave
    .9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    15. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
    18. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting

    .3 Cleric : War Domain

    .2 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
    .8 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Leveling Guide
    1. Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hum0 Damage Boost; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
    2. Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I, II
    3. Reset Human (not really necessary but gets Strategic Combat II a little earlier)
      • Harper Agent: Intelligence
        1. (none)
        2. Versatile Adept III
        3. Strategic Combat
    4. Hum0 Damage Boost; Hum0 Intelligence; Hrp2 Know the Angles I
    5. Hrp2 Know the Angles II, III; Hrp3 Versatile Adept I, II
    6. Hrp3 Versatile Adept III; Hrp3 Intelligence; Rad0 Healing Domain
    7. Rad1 Altruism I, II, III; Rad1 Wand Mastery I
    8. Reset Harper Agent, Reset Human
      • Human: Damage Boost, Wisdom
      • Falconry: Snow Owl, Wisdom, Well Rounded
        1. Rugged III, Hunter's Knowledge, Out in Nature III
        2. Killer Instinct I
        3. Killer Instinct II, Strike for the Eyes: Strike I, Conditioning, Eyes of the Eagle
        4. Deadly Instinct III, Coordinated Strike

    Falconry (48 AP)
    • Raven, Wisdom, Well Rounded, Wisdom, Well Rounded II, Master Falconer
      1. Rugged III, Hunter's Knowledge, Out in Nature III
      2. Killer Instinct I, Watch the Center III, Diving Strike III
      3. Killer Instinct II, Tear Flesh, Strike for the Eyes: Strike III, Conditioning, Eyes of the Eagle
      4. Deadly Instinct III, No Mercy III, Coordinated Strike, Expose Weakness
      5. Dangerous, Death from Above: Strike III, Mark the Prey: Strike

    Radiant Servant (29 AP)
    • Healing Domain
      1. Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery II, Bliss I, Altruism III
      2. (none)
      3. Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty, Wisdom
      4. Incredible Healing II, Divine Health, Wisdom

    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost, Wisdom


    (Previous version)
    Code:
    Level Order
    
    1. Artificer . . . 6. Cleric. . . . .11. Cleric. . . . .16. Cleric
    2. Cleric . . . . .7. Cleric . . . . 12. Cleric . . . . 17. Cleric
    3. Cleric . . . . .8. Cleric . . . . 13. Cleric . . . . 18. Cleric
    4. Cleric . . . . .9. Cleric . . . . 14. Cleric . . . . 19. Cleric
    5. Artificer . . .10. Cleric. . . . .15. Cleric. . . . .20. Artificer
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .34pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 10. . . .+3. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+2. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 14. . . .+2. . . 12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 17. . . .+2. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 17. . . .+2. . . 20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+2. . . 
    
    
    Skills
    . . . . . A .C .C .C .A. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. A
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4 . . . .1 .3. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2. 23
    UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .23
    Heal. . . 2 .3 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .22
    Open Lo . 4 . . 1. . .3. 1. . .1 .½ .1 .½ .1 .½ .1 .½ .1 .½ .1 .½ .4. 22
    Search. . 4 . . . .1 .3. 1. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. ½. 1. 3 .22
    Balance . 2 .½ .½ .½ . . ½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 2 .½ .½ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
    Spot. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .32 .7 .7 .8 10 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 10
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .1 Human. : Quicken Spell
    .3. . . . : Power Attack
    .6. . . . : Cleave
    .9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
    15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    18. . . . : Great Cleave
    
    .3 Cleric : War Domain
    
    .2 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
    .8 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
    
    
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Falconry (48 AP)
    • Raven, Wisdom, Well Rounded, Wisdom, Well Rounded II, Master Falconer
      1. Rugged III, Hunter's Knowledge, Out in Nature III
      2. Killer Instinct I, Watch the Center III, Diving Strike III
      3. Killer Instinct II, Tear Flesh, Strike for the Eyes: Strike III, Conditioning, Eyes of the Eagle
      4. Deadly Instinct III, No Mercy III, Coordinated Strike, Expose Weakness
      5. Dangerous, Death from Above: Strike III, Mark the Prey: Strike
    Radiant Servant (29 AP)
    • Healing Domain
      1. Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery II, Bliss I, Altruism III
      2. (none)
      3. Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty, Wisdom
      4. Incredible Healing II, Divine Health, Wisdom
    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost, Wisdom
    Last edited by Electzra; 11-22-2019 at 02:16 PM. Reason: formatting

  2. #2
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    What I don't like is how this is a late bloomer (if ever). You get crit expansion / Holy Sword as late as level 17.
    And I don't like war domain.
    How about an animal domain swashbuckler 15/3/2 with rogue for evasion... with sickles or something like that.

  3. #3
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    i've been kicking around a similar idea, keep us posted how it works out please!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    What I don't like is how this is a late bloomer (if ever). You get crit expansion / Holy Sword as late as level 17.
    Yes, that does bother me. I've kind of front-loaded the trappiness at the expense of other abilities. I may tweak that.

    I don't like war domain. How about an animal domain swashbuckler 15/3/2 with rogue for evasion.
    War domain gives weapon proficiencies. It's not the best but it saves some feats.
    I feel that since it already needs Wis and Int, is already pulling from Con, and needs Str to qualify for feats it's never going to be possible to get Dex to a decent place for evasion.

  5. #5
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    What's the point of maxing disable devices but dumping search? I mean, you can disarm bear traps and spell wards that've already fired, but I feel like you might need to rework your skills.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoVTyphoon View Post
    What's the point of maxing disable devices but dumping search? I mean, you can disarm bear traps and spell wards that've already fired, but I feel like you might need to rework your skills.

    Well, he does get find traps for a big search bonus as a cleric.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ValariusK View Post
    Well, he does get find traps for a big search bonus as a cleric.
    Caster Level/2, so that's an extra 8 skill levels at 20 if you weren't planning on getting insight bonuses to search anywhere else. OP shorted search by 17 points, so it's still 9 points below the usual trapper builds.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoVTyphoon View Post
    What's the point of maxing disable devices but dumping search? I mean, you can disarm bear traps and spell wards that've already fired, but I feel like you might need to rework your skills.
    You make a good point. That would be one of the glaring errors I referred to!
    Some reshuffling gives useful search at the cost of a point of Wis. I feel it could be a lot better optimised, though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    What I don't like is how this is a late bloomer (if ever). You get crit expansion / Holy Sword as late as level 17.
    If your class(es) can't claim a full 1:1 BAB progression, you won't see BAB 8 until 12 at the earliest, and often 15 (depending on dips). However, this build can take it at 12, and probably should. It's a huge boost to DPS, bigger than some of the others you take before it. And the high-level spells are what they are. :/

    One problem is the SWF+Cleave combo. Cleave works, just not as well as w/ 2HF - maybe focus more on the SWF line, and leave Great Cleave out (or until early epic?).

    You have to decide if this is going to be a healer or a melee-er, and walk the one road. I'd delay Quicken until 3 at the earliest, or he won't be able to kill anything. Without that, this "late bloomer" will indeed be tough to level, and if you're only going to 20, that might not be the most fun you could have.

    Take a look at the feat progression on this related concept: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...06#post6091506

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    ...this build can take [imp crit] at 12, and probably should. It's a huge boost to DPS, bigger than some of the others you take before it.
    Makes sense.

    One problem is the SWF+Cleave combo. Cleave works, just not as well as w/ 2HF - maybe focus more on the SWF line, and leave Great Cleave out (or until early epic?).
    Good to know. I'd seen THF builds prioritising GCleave over GTHF so I did the same.

    I'd delay Quicken until 3 at the earliest, or he won't be able to kill anything. Without that, this "late bloomer" will indeed be tough to level, and if you're only going to 20, that might not be the most fun you could have.
    Unfortunately since the +3 tome doesn't kick in until 3rd I can't push up Power Attack, so it's a toss-up between quicken and empower healing at 1st. Since I've dumped concentration I'd rather have quicken to get off any heal at all.
    To compensate somewhat I've gone with some Harper in the early levels (hadn't realised how much earlier they get Strategic Combat and Know the Angles than Falconry got Killer Instinct and Deadly Instinct, holy ****!). Probably more fun than battering away with 13 Str - might actually go repeater until 3rd.

    Really useful insights, thanks, especially the link to unbongwah's build.
    Last edited by Electzra; 11-22-2019 at 02:30 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electzra View Post
    I'm about to TR my first life melee Cleric, and I want to do something interesting with the second life, so I've been toying with this idea.
    What server are you playing on?
    Do you have a community that you can regularly group with...

    I remember when a guildie of mine TRed his cleric into a Cleric/Rogue.... well... let us just say he still remembers the people that booted him out of groups / raid groups because of "gimping" his build.

    I am currently running a 1Arti/rest FVS and everything is working fine.... make sure to take enough INT for Search and Disable... the Harper tree also has some great skill boosting capability...
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

  12. #12
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    why so much in Falconry? Generally I dont like T5s in Universal trees...they're all pretty lackluster compared to T5 in your class. Especially since two of the big T5 skills are a self heal and an IK...but as a Wis-based Clr, you already have plenty of self-healing and IKs. All its leaving you is the 10% damage debuff, which is nice...but expensive... Also you're a melee Cleric that completely ignores Warpriest I'd just go 23 in Falcon for the trance. That lets you go 25 in Warpriest (Amel + Holy Striker) and 32 in RS (Pos Energy Aura), or alternatively you could T5 WP and T4 RS if you wanted to trade support for DPS, though you wont be using Favored weapons with Khopesh (a major oversight for War Domain I think). I think that's more useful overall than the 10% debuff.

    I'd kinda take a much different tack with class levels, to achieve the same stated goals. 18/2 Rogue so you can get Evasion with your traps. Runearm is nice but you can craft orbs or use named ones, and those will give you better options for your build than Runearms - the damage proc from those is pretty negligible, especially when you dont have the high ROF of RXB or DXB. If you want to go melee with a RA, then you really should build around RMM since that gives you some unique melee abilities for RAs. Orb slot will let you boost your healing power (Devotion+Lore) or bump your DCs (School Focus+Ins School Focus), and you can even put Ins Deadly on it as a third affix for more damage, dovetailing nicely with your playstyle. Or you could slot it with Light spellpower/lore and be able to do some nuking, since you'll have high WIS - that will give you some AOE potential.

    Feats are SWFx3, IC:S, Quicken/Emp Heal of course...that leaves 2 extra, I agree PA+Cleave is not worthwhile. I'd suggest Ins Reflex (now that you have Evasion) and Heighten, since you'll be doing DC casting (if you werent, there'd be no point in going WIS based).

    War domain is the right domain for +1/+1 crit on this build, though I really hate how late it comes for melee clerics (Clr 14, so probably char level 16 since most melee clerics will splash) considering most other builds get it by char lvl 12 at the latest. Khopesh eventually though you may want to go with Nightforge longsword for mid Heroics and Sky Pirate before that. Lunar Crescent at 15 is really the first khopesh that's worth using khopeshes for (that or Barovians at 10 maybe). You might even look into slotting KT early on, run with Nightforge, then swap KT out for Heighten when you switch to khopeshes, since Heighten isnt useful at lower levels anyway.
    Last edited by droid327; 11-22-2019 at 03:52 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    <Many words>
    Thanks for the lengthy and interesting reply! I saw you were editing more into it so I went to the pub for a few hours before responding

    why so much in Falconry? ... Also you're a melee Cleric that completely ignores Warpriest
    Frankly I wanted to try it. The story of this build is that I decided I wanted to come back to DDO on the same day I got stuck for 4 hours on a broken down train. So I did a lot of reading (I even made notes on an envelope) and came up with this idea - which isn't exactly original.
    And here's the thing - Falconry synergises on Wisdom really well, Warpriest does Strength and Charisma (Divine Might/Divine Power) and focuses on favoured weapons. One stat vs three, all weapons vs one.

    Generally I dont like T5s in Universal trees...they're all pretty lackluster compared to T5 in your class. Especially since two of the big T5 skills are a self heal and an IK...but as a Wis-based Clr, you already have plenty of self-healing and IKs. All its leaving you is the 10% damage debuff, which is nice...but expensive... Also you're a melee Cleric that completely ignores Warpriest I'd just go 23 in Falcon for the trance. That lets you go 25 in Warpriest (Amel + Holy Striker) and 32 in RS (Pos Energy Aura), or alternatively you could T5 WP and T4 RS if you wanted to trade support for DPS, though you wont be using Favored weapons with Khopesh (a major oversight for War Domain I think). I think that's more useful overall than the 10% debuff.
    Comparing the T5s:
    • Falconry has permanent +10 melee power, a heal (meh, I'm a Cleric!), an autohit 10% damage debuff with damage on the side, and a free IK with cooldown reduce (still failry meh).
    • Warpriest has Divine Power (OK, but str is irrelevant), 2 favoured weapon attacks (OK, but we won't be using them), tanking with increased threat gen (umm, the fighter is over there!) and DI (I'm pretty sure I have a LOT of heals to replace this).
    • Positive Energy Aura ('nuff said) and some other things.

    So for this build it's essentially a choice between RS Aura and Falconry for DPS.
    Also the C5 for Falconry doesn't hurt. +2 stats, FoM and (procs). Yes please. We can't get the C5s for RS and WP.

    Holy Striker is awesome, it sucks to lose this, but I think Expose Weakness is much stronger. More crits for everyone? Yes.
    Falconry has Expose weakness (-50% fortification on Bird attacks) and No Mercy (30% damage on helpless) and Birdie every 10 seconds. Most of the Birdie attacks do a guaranteed debuff.
    I don't rate Ameliorating Strike. A cooldown proc heal? I'm a Cleric!

    I'd kinda take a much different tack with class levels, to achieve the same stated goals. 18/2 Rogue so you can get Evasion with your traps. Runearm is nice but you can craft orbs or use named ones, and those will give you better options for your build than Runearms - the damage proc from those is pretty negligible, especially when you dont have the high ROF of RXB or DXB. If you want to go melee with a RA, then you really should build around RMM since that gives you some unique melee abilities for RAs. Orb slot will let you boost your healing power (Devotion+Lore) or bump your DCs (School Focus+Ins School Focus), and you can even put Ins Deadly on it as a third affix for more damage, dovetailing nicely with your playstyle. Or you could slot it with Light spellpower/lore and be able to do some nuking, since you'll have high WIS - that will give you some AOE potential.
    I've no doubt that rogue would make a better trapper, but we're already far too stat starved to think about Dex for evasion - I knew reflex saves would suck going in.
    RMM has some great melee things but most scale with artificer level and even Battlefist requires 11 AP in.

    War domain is the right domain for +1/+1 crit on this build. You might even look into slotting KT early on, run with Nightforge, then swap KT out for Heighten when you switch to khopeshes, since Heighten isnt useful at lower levels anyway.
    I did think about KT then swapping out. May still do it.
    I think if I was building your way (Clr18/Rog2, WP>RS)I'd be looking at Str>Con>Cha and Animal domain.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmGhandi View Post
    I remember when a guildie of mine TRed his cleric into a Cleric/Rogue.... well... let us just say he still remembers the people that booted him out of groups / raid groups because of "gimping" his build.
    Hopefully this won't happen. I've never been unwelcome as a cleric. So far...

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