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  1. #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    Thanks for that, well said. But, it begs the question, whomever wrote this, where is the real FlimsyFirewood and what are your demands for his release?

  2. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    Being spam blasted with comet fall with no way to predict nor react isn't a "challenge" in my opinion. Sudden groups of high DR casters that spew endless AE blasts which only reflex+evasion can save you from also isn't really a challenge, it's a breeze for some builds and instant death for others - even with pre-knowledge! DDO is in an especially tough spot due to the huge disparity in not just build but power even within the same build from past lives and gear choices.
    Exactly this. We have a few binary quests like that, which are easy for some builds and a total brick wall for others, and the fixes aren't always obvious.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Exactly this. We have a few binary quests like that, which are easy for some builds and a total brick wall for others, and the fixes aren't always obvious.
    A mitigation here is an abundance of quests. There are enough now that someone can skip many based on any of pure personal preference, difficult mechanics specific to the player's current character, difficult mechanics relative to the players video game skill ("twitch" or "mario" quests). This mitigation gets more effective every update with new quests. But perhaps you should beef up the levels where there are still fewer quests than average. Consider level 12 and 13 where it looks like a two level stretch that has fewer quests than average, and three of those are Titan, Zawabi and the chain-required Cursed Crypt.

    Another mitigation remains multiple difficulty settings down to casual.

  4. #344
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Got it

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I want to mention that I did not expect 17 pages of feedback from this thread, you all went above and beyond.

    The other thing to consider is that I have limited time towards improving old quests during the development cycle between crafting new experiences for you to explore, exploit and exterminate. I'm already elbows deep in the next update, and I don't have the time to fix each and every pet peeve out there, as it turns out. But your opinions have been heard, and when I have time to fix another thing I'll just go down one of many, many lists here, cherry-picking the worst of the worst.

    Several of you brought to my attention your extreme aversion to such changes, stating that our content is too easy already, that we shouldn't make it even simpler. Your opinion matters too, because that's valid feedback: "Don't touch anything!" I'm picking up what you're putting down.

    I don't believe any true reconciliation is possible between these two groups of opinions.

    That being said, the best thing I can do is exercise caution and my best judgement when fixing things to preserve challenges in some manner and leaving enough teeth in the quests to keep the playerbase awake while zerging through the content. Of course I realize that overnerfing something is not the same as fixing it to be better, clearly some balance between unfair and fun must be maintained. The truth is in the middle.

    So, in closing, nobody's taking out the puzzles. The fixes we make will be few and far between, addressing the most egregious balance and pain-point concerns.
    I think this generally makes sense. Glad you can do stuff in between other, newer stuff. Are you still (hopefully) considering Mad Tea Party down in the caverns? That's just brutal in my opinion. Thank you again!
    Taleisin

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Exactly this. We have a few binary quests like that, which are easy for some builds and a total brick wall for others, and the fixes aren't always obvious.
    Make them optionals

    Add an 'alternative challenge' bypass

    Diversify the defenses being challenged at once

    Add earnable in-quest buff source for builds that lack the appropriate statistic (eg Jump buffs in Small Problem and Amber Temple)

    Hirelings 2.0 so you can address targeted needs that way

  6. #346
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Default Spell wards can be frustrating to deal with

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Exactly this. We have a few binary quests like that, which are easy for some builds and a total brick wall for others, and the fixes aren't always obvious.
    Spells wards are something that can really trip a party up, especially when they paralyze you in place and keep inflicting the damage.

    If you don't have a trapper, you have to either tough them out (which can be hard if you're being held in place!), or use Dispel/Disjunction to dispel them. I do quite like that we have the option of using magic/scrolls to dispelling them, however those spells remove only 1 and 1d4 CR, respectively, for each cast, meaning you need to sit there for about 10-15 casts to dispell most spell wards. It would be great if those spells removed drastically more CR levels from spell wards.

    Alt suggestion: triggering a spell ward removes CR from it, so it gets progressively weaker over time - let the tank disable it with their face!
    That's not lag, it's just DDO trying to become turn-based again.

    Feature wishlist: colour-coded HP bars; red/blue teams in raids; rez-timer in party menu; equip-able halflings

  7. #347
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I want to mention that I did not expect 17 pages of feedback from this thread, you all went above and beyond.

    The other thing to consider is that I have limited time towards improving old quests during the development cycle between crafting new experiences for you to explore, exploit and exterminate. I'm already elbows deep in the next update, and I don't have the time to fix each and every pet peeve out there, as it turns out. But your opinions have been heard, and when I have time to fix another thing I'll just go down one of many, many lists here, cherry-picking the worst of the worst.

    Several of you brought to my attention your extreme aversion to such changes, stating that our content is too easy already, that we shouldn't make it even simpler. Your opinion matters too, because that's valid feedback: "Don't touch anything!" I'm picking up what you're putting down.

    I don't believe any true reconciliation is possible between these two groups of opinions.

    That being said, the best thing I can do is exercise caution and my best judgement when fixing things to preserve challenges in some manner and leaving enough teeth in the quests to keep the playerbase awake while zerging through the content. Of course I realize that overnerfing something is not the same as fixing it to be better, clearly some balance between unfair and fun must be maintained. The truth is in the middle.

    So, in closing, nobody's taking out the puzzles. The fixes we make will be few and far between, addressing the most egregious balance and pain-point concerns.
    Why I welcome more official presentation and like to support it, I can't comprehend your goal with this thread. Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to attack you. But did you really need this thread to come to those conclusions?! Nothing in here was new information or something you couldn't analyze or discern from other threads?!
    I know you have to follow the community to get to know what makes them tick and tick off in the consequence. I know you don't have time for that because it is not your job and very time consuming. But maybe it would help if you had someone like that. So this could have been executed in a more effective manner.

    There is so much information flying around - granted it is padded by a lot of c**p - but it is available.

    Cheers,
    Titus.
    Beste, Titus. | playing since 2009 | Don't do the fun wrong | New to Orien? Join the ingame Titan Channel | Soko Irrlicht freut sich immer über neue Mitglieder | Deutscher Discord | Orien Raiding Discord Toons: Titusovid , Bruder, Upload, Zzed, (Rubbel)

  8. #348
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I want to mention that I did not expect 17 pages of feedback from this thread
    The thread is not over yet.... or are you saying you are not reading any more?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I don't believe any true reconciliation is possible between these two groups of opinions.
    No need to reconcile between that which is wrong, and that which is right. Just do what is right.... (clarification: my opinion is "right").

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That being said, the best thing I can do is exercise caution and my best judgement when fixing things to preserve challenges in some manner and leaving enough teeth in the quests to keep the playerbase awake while zerging through the content. Of course I realize that overnerfing something is not the same as fixing it to be better, clearly some balance between unfair and fun must be maintained. The truth is in the middle.

    So, in closing, nobody's taking out the puzzles. The fixes we make will be few and far between, addressing the most egregious balance and pain-point concerns.
    You could maybe look at the list of censored words and think carefully if they are worth censoring? There are some that I would change....
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Exactly this. We have a few binary quests like that, which are easy for some builds and a total brick wall for others, and the fixes aren't always obvious.
    Again: this is okay and good and doesn't need to be fixed!

    1. It makes TRs a varied experience, where on your evasion build you get to feel godly while you steamroll through that quest where there are lots of spammy AOE spells. The next life on a sorc you might have a failed attempt and have to dip into your arsenal of more rarely used spells to pick enemies off without being hit by a lot of AOEs, and get to feel heroic and crafty for completing it at the same difficulty (albeit in 5x as much time).
    2. It encourages grouping - that quest with the really deadly traps? You care about having a rogue. That quest with a bunch of archers on ledges? You care about bringing some ranged DPS. The one with the deadly boss? You really appreciate your tanky friend.

    If every encounter was balanced to all classes (see: clumps of enemies standing in a corridor with a couple of archers, a spellcaster and a few melees), the game would be dead to me. More unbalanced encounters please!
    Nistafa on Khyber

  10. #350
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    There is so much information flying around - granted it is padded by a lot of c**p - but it is available.
    I will try not to take that personally... :P

    But I think I would rather there be a thread like this, than a dev taking time to read through the last years of forums posts... at least it is trying to concentrate and collect some stuff.
    Of course, the data could have been searched for in a more efficient manner... but at least someone is trying to search for it. And getting someone else to try and sort the stuff out... finding the gems between me complaining about word filters (for example) is also going to cost money.
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

  11. #351
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    If you want to play that quest the same way you can. Just recall if you kill too many of the miners.

    Now, instead of failing you outright, the miners you save are worth extra XP. The main gimmick of the quest is still there, you're trying to protect mobs that are initially hostile to you.

    I've been watching this thread. some feedback.......


    This whole concept of dumbing down this game is nonsense.

    For the people that can't run Slavers as designed, that's on them. That quest is a solid design. Using tactics like sheathing weapons to knock out the miners at the sonic traps is actually funny, not zerging full throttle and using time tested tactics like using agro to draw attention of the turncoats while someone else takes out the foremen is a no-brainer. (even solo on a gimped toon with ANY hireling)

    Delirium & Acute D have a few tough spots. So I can agree w/ the player base on that.

    Litany, you could drop the subsequent 3 tests after completing the 1st one. That makes sense.

    Smoothing the ramp over hangs on the switch-backs in Coal Chamber makes sense.

    If ANYTHING SSG should be concentrating on making the game harder.


    You devs have watered this game down in many ways, then introduce the BS reaper debacle to make up for the inability and imagination to change the difficulty settings when yo introduced the massive power creep w/ MouTU, Epic Destinies etc....


    Too many players post and brown-nose w/ you devs when they know they get responses here on the boards, and you feed into it. This thread is a classic example the problems SSG buys into.

    As I've been saying for a year now, I speak with my wallet.

  12. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    I can't comprehend your goal with this thread.

    <snip>

    I know you don't have time for that because it is not your job and very time consuming.

    <snip>

    There is so much information flying around - granted it is padded by a lot of c**p

    <snip>
    You answered your own question.

  13. #353
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazgul748 View Post
    No, I mean exactly what I said... Snowflakes. Look at the comments Flimsy responds to with the snark in his reply. People whinging because their build with 4 points in jump can't get to the crates in Smash and Burn. Geez, jump comes in pots, buy some. Oh, I have to spend 3 minutes looking for the crates. Now they are sparkly and we have a ladder. It's ridiculous. Snowflakes who want everything handed to them without any effort. The sad part about it is most of us here are old enough to know better.


    +1. This game is turning into "my little kitty (or pony)"

    Like I said. Too many players post and brown nose the devs and they buy right into it.

    Sad that less than 5% of the player base posts here, and less than 25% (?) of those posters have whined and cried about whatever, and bad choices get made for the game.

    Truly not fair to the populous, and people wonder why the player base is so dismal. (and getting smaller)

  14. #354
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Really guys?!

    I didn't have too much trouble finding the crates, although I hate Mario Jump antics in quests but are you seriously complaining that a dev made a quest less tedious to finish after all the baddies are dead? Just because this stuff doesn't frustrate the poo out of you doesn't make it fun for others.

    I like the idea behind the changes. More fun, less frustration. And before you chew me out, remember I play as a family mostly with my hubby and both my kids, ages 10 and 7.
    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  15. #355
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    No slinging hipkid insults like OK Boomer and Snowflake at each other. Back in my day Boomer was a great pilot on the Galactica and Snowflakes were used in a Snoopy Snowcone Machine, and I will not have this community trash either of those things.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Snowflakes were used in a Snoopy Snowcone Machine
    My best friend had one of those when I was kid; so jealous. Ah good times.

  17. #357
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    By all means, add a ladder, make the things that aren't fighting or puzzle solving easier to go through, make the end chest obtained by killing the end boss, not doing some sort of strange optional that can only be reached after you kill the right bosses in the right order...
    Do it again.
    Less tedious = more time for fun.

    There are things that would make the quests harder (and, possibly, more tedious, depending on your definition thereof) which I would actually support. Making killing the dragons inside the Tor mandatory, for example (... wink wink nudge nudge)

    I don't mind hard. Hard is fine. Time-consuming is fine, as long as I have the impression I'm actually doing stuff. I play games BECAUSE I want my time consumed in that particular fashion, after all.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Several of you brought to my attention your extreme aversion to such changes, stating that our content is too easy already, that we shouldn't make it even simpler. Your opinion matters too, because that's valid feedback: "Don't touch anything!" I'm picking up what you're putting down.

    I don't believe any true reconciliation is possible between these two groups of opinions.
    You started this thread because you had specific data that certain quests were significantly harder than other quests of the same level, and so might get put more in line with other quests of the same level.

    Without getting into the game-as-a-whole-is-too-easy issue, I'm going to repeat my earlier question: are you using that same data to identify quests easier than others of the same level, and then tune them up to be more in line with other quests of the same level?

    If you're doing both of those things, you're not making the game easier, you making it more consistent, which I would consider a good thing. Is that happening, or are you only taking out hard parts?

    Last edited by SirValentine; 12-12-2019 at 09:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  19. #359
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    You started this thread because you had specific data that certain quests were significantly harder than other quests of the same level, and so might get put more in line with other quests of the same level.

    Without getting into the game-as-a-whole-is-too-easy issue, I'm going to repeat my earlier question: are you using that same data to identify quests easier than others of the same level, and then tune them up to be more in line with other quests of the same level?

    If you're doing both of those things, you're not making the game easier, you making it more consistent, which I would consider a good thing. Is that happening, or are you only taking out hard parts?

    I think the problem there, while I do agree that easier content needs to be made more challenging in many cases to continue to be engaging, is that not everyone who plays (and enjoys) DDO is great at it. Having easy quests is a lifesaver for some (particularly newer, not that I've seen a lot of those around lately) players who don't have guilds, 40 lives+ worth of gear, past lives, muscle memory of every quest, and all the other junk that makes the "easy" quests easy. Some of the early quests could stand a nice bump in health and damage for monsters, but do too much and you space out all but the people who are either good at the game or well prepared, and you don't start as either of those, typically, so I think there's more room for painfully easy quests than there is for soul-crushingly hard quests.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
    Reaper Experience Calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ewE/edit#gid=0 (out of date as of U42.4, needs testing for new values)

  20. #360
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    You answered your own question.
    No.
    I asked why you start something like this under all these circumstances. The result can only by mediocre.

    *blink*

    Nvm, you are right, I answered my own question. Move along.
    Beste, Titus. | playing since 2009 | Don't do the fun wrong | New to Orien? Join the ingame Titan Channel | Soko Irrlicht freut sich immer über neue Mitglieder | Deutscher Discord | Orien Raiding Discord Toons: Titusovid , Bruder, Upload, Zzed, (Rubbel)

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