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  1. #261
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Default The Game Needs Better Tutorial To Teach Adventuring Items

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That's the mentality I'm using when I approach problematic content. The title of this thread is a bit of a hyperbole, which is par for the course in the forum lands, or so I thought.

    We are making multiple quality of life changes in the next patch, but only three quests so far got a measurable reduction in difficulty: Smash and Burn (fewer alert-causing mobs, sparkles on crates, 1 extra ladder), Bonegrinder (slightly fewer wolves, removed acid fog and comet fall from the hags), Stopping the Sahuagin (the trap at the end does not insta-kill newbies at level).







    Excuse me with a balance item, fortification item and acid resistance/cold resistance (fire resistance being the third brother) item even an ordinary fighter or an ordinary archmage wizard can do those. There is Korthos shield item from Necromacer's doom but also can be bought from vendors.


    May be these can be tought to players at the tutorial and Korthos can achieve vendors, mail and bank aswell in the future. House representers can speak to players as quest and tell them their favor helps for inventory, bank and movement speed in the game.


    Korthos beach arrival starts with Jeets: ' Hey there friend. Please listen to me carefully ' ( Narration: Please read the Npc conversations and listen to Narration. There are good hints for you to be used at your adventures)


    ' Can you talk? Speak to me '


    A rogue splash (only two lvls of rogue and 14-16 intelligence with spot, search, disable device level up every level) can disarm traps after killng the spider with ranged attacks very easy. I do not even mention the Trouble shooter set which is awesome boost aswell as Tool kits.


    There re only several unstoppable effects that can not be easily avoided by spell absorbtion (becasue those items wear too fast) such as Level drain or some dots from Champions. Still, carrying proof and absorbance items at the inventory solves allmost anything at the game.


    If the player is first time the quest, never read the wiki or googled the forum or outer site hints and not carrying level equalent healing potions and said resistance and absorbtion items WITH THE HELP OF THE LAG accidents can happen. (Btw why doesnt the said player even take a time to read the npc conversation , ask other players or read the wiki and forums...Great mystery of the universe!)




    A player that takes some time to read the information about the quests and the npc enemies at the quests(their powers and their weaknesses) he simply cant Epic fail as long as it doesnt lag and the game freeze for too long (The player still needs to zerg rush and dive everyother room without swapping tiems and without healing self when he knows the game actually has a chance to lag and freeze)


    May be thats what its need to be added; or newcomers should be trained to carry extra heal potions and resistance items when they travel, the first day they get to the first tutorial at Korthos island ?




    Once again I would like to tell your game is good and balanced. Several class/tree enhancements are overpowered and the lag can cath any player who is not well prepared for the quest.


    I have been playing the game with first life characters since 2012. (Epics become much easier with cetain class/destiny combos and overpowered item sets). Those quests are noway tough and the parts you mentioned and a prepared character adds more fun to the gamng experience.


    Yes there can be better hints as well as better tutorial to tell newcomers to carry extra resistance, balance, jump, saves and healing potions. But the quests are actuually pretty easy, especially for certain classes with certain powers.




    I wonder who is reporting these easy quests as if hardcore killer quests. But I can simply tell its all missleading report.



    My humble two cents.
    Last edited by Kutalp; 11-28-2019 at 02:41 AM.

  2. #262
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKernel View Post


    Riding the Storm Out just remove it form the game. It would be easier.
    My personal favored approach here would be having an NPC at the door handing out `Improved Boots of Grounding` on normal and hard diffs.

    Stats: https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Boots_of_Grounding

    Plus Additionally: +15MRR and MRR cap.




    Alternatively hand it out on each difficulty, but make elite skeletons and Kaza use improved item damage, with moderate durability for the boots.


    This raid is insanely unfair for cloth/reflex builds, otherwise perfectly fine.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Those ballistas are op, but i found that going from top down, works 100% safe for me, using a ranged weapon or double range spells.

    Converting things that have no save, to at least an ability stat to save, or a skill to recover (balance/concentration/heal/tumble...etc.) or something even if unusal but within the frame of the game's rule system would be preferred.

    Things that we cant avoid, or hang on .1 to .75s micro lags should have saves, warnings etc... options to recover, rez shrines, quest items, or other interactables.

    "Nerfing content into the ground." -- isnt the mental state i would approach the quests, more like,- if it means to challenge: at least, make sure there is a potential reaction to it, as well as fair reaction time with micro lags certainly often happening.

    Make us think "I wish ive prepared for this" instead of "W.T.H was that!!! ALT+F4"; xd
    You guys know you can just get their attention/agro and then drop directly below them and wait as they blow themselves up trying to shoot you? It takes time and mistakes happen (I usually park a hire well away for the oops) but much safer/more effective than trying to range them.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmckronos View Post
    You guys know you can just get their attention/agro and then drop directly below them and wait as they blow themselves up trying to shoot you? It takes time and mistakes happen (I usually park a hire well away for the oops) but much safer/more effective than trying to range them.
    Sigh...

  5. #265
    Community Member ChicagoChris's Avatar
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    Default Thrall of the Necromancer

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hey folks,

    We have been looking at interesting data about player deaths in the hardcore server. There are a few quests that spike above and beyond the difficulty curve at their intended level. By way of example, Stopping the Sahuagin is one of the deadliest quests in the game, and is being nerfed as we speak. A whole lot of people died to the ice trap in the end, and I should know, because I made it, and also died while explaining how it works to my wife and friends. On a rogue. While jumping up and down in front of it.

    To disambiguate, "nerfing" in this case means making the quest easier, not harder.

    While we are addressing obvious concerns and I personally take the nerf bat to some of these, we may overlook some of the least popular quests due to their data being less obvious (not a lot of people play them > not a big spike in deaths).

    Please use this thread to point out problematic quests and areas within them, that are more difficult/annoying than the rest of similar quests in the same level range. I will personally appreciate any screenshots and /loc strings of problematic areas, which makes it a lot easier to deliver swift nerf justice to the offenders.

    The point here is not to make the game a cakewalk, but to smooth out the difficulty curve from quest to quest. I'm not touching most quests, just the outliers, the ones who go out of their way to kill or annoy you.

    Bring out your pet peeves!
    I hope I'm not too late to this to have @FlimsyFirewood take a look at this, but I saw Thrall mentioned once for the first trap. I'd like to see the second set addressed - the cold one isn't bad, but the DOUBLE poison ones right after are killer. I recall I was in on R2 and got hit once for 250 and once for 200. 450 damage in one shot, minimal chance to avoid unless you have evasion or remember to equip your shield or remember to quaff neutralize poison first.

    And by the way, Poison damage is just too complicated to understand how to mitigate it. Natural vs Magical vs Supernatural (I didn't even know about supernatural until I looked at the wiki.) Protection, resists, poison resists, deathblock, deathward...
    Farog on Khyber

  6. #266
    I <3 DDO rfachini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoChris View Post
    I hope I'm not too late to this to have @FlimsyFirewood take a look at this, but I saw Thrall mentioned once for the first trap. I'd like to see the second set addressed - the cold one isn't bad, but the DOUBLE poison ones right after are killer. I recall I was in on R2 and got hit once for 250 and once for 200. 450 damage in one shot, minimal chance to avoid unless you have evasion or remember to equip your shield or remember to quaff neutralize poison first.

    And by the way, Poison damage is just too complicated to understand how to mitigate it. Natural vs Magical vs Supernatural (I didn't even know about supernatural until I looked at the wiki.) Protection, resists, poison resists, deathblock, deathward...
    Good point. My only hardcore server death was late at night to that poison trap on elite. Right before level 11. I understand the trap can be avoided. I just didn’t know it well enough.
    Ghallanda (35): Vilas, Alphon, Whelm, Thaylan, Tyclmi, Amgine, Talc, Dedlee, Payle, Darell, Talenta, Zhen, Thrane, Arrith, Durdyn, Magefyre, Necrophil, Tulgey, Borogove, Hasugi, Shawal, Hailestorm, Branthan, Lightningbug, Bettercall, Elecktric, Zardu, Zergworthy, BrotherOf, Missadventer, Bytemy, Demogeorgia, Tizen, Warrcore, Permadeaf

  7. #267
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    In epic The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias, one of the barrels before the boss's door could drop a couple of Stone to Flesh scrolls.

  8. #268
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    There are a lot of monsters inside "Wrath of Earth" that are not in the player's path.

    Recommend removing excess monsters to promote performance and such.

  9. #269
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Poisons within DDO, vary a lot and the 'Proof Against Poison topaz' doesn't actually provide immunity against: the "Ability damage" aspect from Natural Poison like is advertised. Magical and Supernatural Poisons of course differ.

    Most of the low level quest Poisons traps are meant to be 'Natural Poison' type, e.g. Spider Venom. Even though you can take HP damage; you should not have Ability damage also occurring if you equip a 'Proof Against Poison' item to protect from a Natural Poison.

    <off-topic>
    Flimsy, I think you'd like some of the features of the TNNT Dev Team Office Level: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/The_DevTeam_Office I was there last Saturday and received the: Really Cool Shirt (T-shirt).






    You can of course watch (replay) the Video(s) of me in there since ALL competing player's games were recorded for video playback purposes.

    The AC drop from [-7] to [-4] was due to a 'Golden Naga' casting a Destroy Armour Spell; it destroyed my pristine Cloak of Displacement in 1 turn LOL. Unlike with DDO, you cannot ever recover or repair destroyed items.
    </off-topic>

    Traps should hit hard if you are in Reaper mode; if you play Reaper, you opted for traps to do more damage.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 12-03-2019 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Saturday.

  10. #270
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Consider removing the living meteor swarm from the end fight of Enter the Kobold.
    Would still be challenging, but would allow fire shield to be a strong defense.
    FYI, one can cast Ooze Puppet on living spells, and they will fight FOR you...
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  11. #271
    Community Member Sir_Noob's Avatar
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    OMG, Larn flashbacks...



    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    Poisons within DDO, vary a lot and the 'Proof Against Poison topaz' doesn't actually provide immunity against: the "Ability damage" aspect from Natural Poison like is advertised. Magical and Supernatural Poisons of course differ.

    Most of the low level quest Poisons traps are meant to be 'Natural Poison' type, e.g. Spider Venom. Even though you can take HP damage; you should not have Ability damage also occurring if you equip a 'Proof Against Poison' item to protect from a Natural Poison.

    <off-topic>
    Flimsy, I think you'd like some of the features of the TNNT Dev Team Office Level: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/The_DevTeam_Office I was there Sunday and received the: Really Cool Shirt (T-shirt).






    You can of course watch (replay) the Video(s) of me in there since ALL competing player's games were recorded for video playback purposes.

    The AC drop from [-7] to [-4] was due to a 'Golden Naga' casting a Destroy Armour Spell; it destroyed my pristine Cloak of Displacement in 1 turn LOL. Unlike with DDO, you cannot ever recover or repair destroyed items.
    </off-topic>

    Traps should hit hard if you are in Reaper mode; if you play Reaper, you opted for traps to do more damage.
    After a little Tolkien I am usually up for anything.

  12. #272
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Could you add the beggars in the slums a Haggle roll to point the woman in black on the map with a dot?

    That part imo is not funny after about (insert_your_quest_repeat_count) * 10 minutes running around xd

    I will probably break my Q key in the next d6 runs.
    Last edited by janave; 12-04-2019 at 07:11 AM.

  13. #273
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    Tower of frost, Dragonblood, Mines, both of the abishai heavy packs... pretty much anything that came out before reaper and was scaled to challenge top people on elite.

  14. #274
    Community Member Varr's Avatar
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    Interesting 14 pages. There are a handful of quests that could use some tweaking. Not going to list them which is what this thread really is for. Just had a Hard Core server produce 100 or so alts of 6000 make it to 5k favor+.

    Ignore the top 20 and bottom 20...….and see what quests were skipped by #21-80 of that list of good players on first lives that chose not to do content due to meta game knowledge. Those 40 or so non raid quests skipped probably have 5-8 quests that could use a tweak or two to all difficulties.

    TOEE would be a good example as is Tower of Frost. Anyway, carry on.

    New players are supposed to die, running 200 quests in a row on elite death free is not a right, or even good game mechanics.

    Polish a few edges at most to make them not so sharp. Another thing that this thread is not about and can not be fixed here, the only real problem with the game, is Lag. Its a perfect game really.
    Varr's all over. Cannith Varr getting the love currently.

  15. #275
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Why that change to Slavers of the Shrieking Mind? You took away the main difficulty. Kind of lame.

    Cheers,
    Titus.
    Beste, Titus. | playing since 2009 | Don't do the fun wrong | New to Orien? Join the ingame Titan Channel | Soko Irrlicht freut sich immer über neue Mitglieder | Deutscher Discord | Orien Raiding Discord Toons: Titusovid , Bruder, Upload, Zzed, (Rubbel)

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKernel View Post
    If you finally saw the game is hard : GO AND GET RID OF THE CHAMPIONS — THE WORST IDEA DDO GOT ! EVER !
    Another thing you can add, before you start tinkering with the quests (and ruin them beyond being fun point) : give us the Rogue Hirelings for the Heroics ! Let's face it — there are not enough players to get a group. Let alone to get a trapper. Rogue hirelings can make lots of the quests easy without changing the quests.


    The Bookbinder Rescue and Repossession are simply impossible (at level) without a trapper ! If you can't lure more players into the game, please, at least, give us hirelings that can make the job done.


    Enter the Kobold IDK what even to say about this one. The end fight is something like : lot's of flaming special effects on the screen, boom, you are dead. ^_^ I don't even bother to look for what hits me this time.

    why would removing something completely being the right way of balancing it? champs are the nice little twist, that spices up the content, and i think (at least in hard+elite) they're totally fine and can be played around.

    i'd welcome, if they made heroic rogue hires available for gold too. actually there are enough players out there, but divided onto too many servers. if we could have a server merge down to 3-4 servers, that'd be great! especially after that HC experience, with a packed and vivid server, i long for a more crowded server, yet all other servers i could transfer to, are just the same. we really need a servermerge, and you know it for years..

    @ enter the kobold: so basically you're saying you don't even bother looking up what happened, but expect the dev now to nerf the quest cause you're incabable of doing it? seriously?
    its not only you're going in ill-prepared, but you also decline of getting better by building game-knowledge. so you refuse to deal with this issue but expect it to be solved for you? just no words for this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    Yes there can be better hints as well as better tutorial to tell newcomers to carry extra resistance, balance, jump, saves and healing potions. But the quests are actuually pretty easy, especially for certain classes with certain powers.


    I wonder who is reporting these easy quests as if hardcore killer quests. But I can simply tell its all missleading report.
    all of those ill-prepared players, who think they should be able to make it without proper game knowledge or preparation. its like driving a car without knowing how to do so, and then blaming the police, if you crash. "its not easy enough for me to handle" - yeah.. well. thats your problem i guess..


    Quote Originally Posted by rfachini View Post
    I understand the trap can be avoided. I just didn’t know it well enough.
    i wish everyone here had this level of selfreflection instead of going for the devs to nerf content they didn't know well enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Varr View Post
    Interesting 14 pages. There are a handful of quests that could use some tweaking. Not going to list them which is what this thread really is for. Just had a Hard Core server produce 100 or so alts of 6000 make it to 5k favor+.

    Ignore the top 20 and bottom 20...….and see what quests were skipped by #21-80 of that list of good players on first lives that chose not to do content due to meta game knowledge. Those 40 or so non raid quests skipped probably have 5-8 quests that could use a tweak or two to all difficulties.
    thats the first good idea in those 14 pages, how to actually detect the few outlier quests that could use some tweaking. i'm so glad flimsy only did minor changes to quests and i hope this won't get out of hand


    Quote Originally Posted by Varr View Post
    New players are supposed to die, running 200 quests in a row on elite death free is not a right, or even good game mechanics.
    E X A C T L Y
    a player new to a game is the last one to complain about difficulty, since that player will produce so many failures, only a new player is capable of producing. and thats a nice thing to be honest. thats the purest form of adventuring and discovering. just like a dnd module, where you're also not well-prepared for every situation.
    and the ill-prepared players (and there are a ton of them in this thread) are also not to complain about difficulty, since they could've known better, or tried something out before doing it on hardcore, just like everyone on that 5k+ list was doing. its not like they just ran it and were done, there was alot of testing quests, spell DCs and builds beforehand, and thats not getting acknowledged here.
    they put in the effort, they made it. easy as that.
    Last edited by Lanadazia; 12-04-2019 at 11:50 PM.

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Could you add the beggars in the slums a Haggle roll to point the woman in black on the map with a dot?

    That part imo is not funny after about (insert_your_quest_repeat_count) * 10 minutes running around xd

    I will probably break my Q key in the next d6 runs.
    This is a great example of making a quest less annoying. How about in Night falls on storm reach you only have to talk to Fred once in the tavern to teleport him.

    ALSO IN EVERY IN QUEST NPC DIALOGUE BOX THE FIRST OPTION IS SKIP THE STORY AND ADVANCE THE QUEST. I understand some people like to read the story but some people hate it. If the dialogue gives a certain code or something then do not have the skip story option.

    Making mobs/traps easier/not hit as hard is still a bad idea

  18. #278
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    Reach for the sky - very easy to have a half dozen rooms rush for the players.

    Reach for the sky - who thought multiple shots of force damage (duplicating magic missile without shield immunity) was a good idea?
    Please have respect for tanks in the future.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    Why that change to Slavers of the Shrieking Mind? You took away the main difficulty. Kind of lame.

    Cheers,
    Titus.
    Flimsy made that change as a personal favor to me.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Flimsy made that change as a personal favor to me.

    Go Fund Me 2020 - support Lynnabel's questing dungeons


    +1 Thank you.

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