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  1. #41
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    .

    For physical classes melees usually have better endurance and saves in general when we try to explain this comparing to DDO (and partially D&D) but not direct magical absorbtion also heavier armors are weakers against certain type of physical and all types of magical damage with extra percentages at damage taken.

    Melees can deliver very big damage by hitting weakest spots and chopping body parts with greater strength. Meanwhile all physical classes are easier to enchant, play mind tricks on and misslead unless they re raged or extremely strong willed (ends up lower physical attributes or lower endurance usually)
    The problem in ddo being that a melee lacks the dps for quick kills in thougher content (taking in account the melee has all the past lives, gear, build etc for said content).
    Making things worse is that armor class is mostly useless and itemisation has been extremely bad for melee toons since ravenloft hit last year. Essential stats that are required to survive basic stuff is now so spread out that you need to gimp yourself in order to close basic defences. Whille enemy ranged damage usually doesn't get near enemy melee damage so it doesn't affect ranged and casters as much

    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Yes, like you have to play recent content . Try a Sorcerer without Recon. Also maybe not WF for drain immunity? You know, especially in invaders as soon as you take 5 negs, your mana bar is useless right?

    I have played fleshy sorcs for years through heroics, why need reconstruct when hamp and healing items do the trick for the very rare ocaisions you mess up. And what caster plays invaders? With so much content out there? When did invaders become relavant again,if it ever was? I thought it was a noob trap for the f2p crowd, at least the past 5 years.


    WF Sorc vs non WF Sorc is already a pointer that the problems arent inherently inside the class. Thanks for highlighting it further, that the problem exists on a separate layer .

    No, the issue is lack of dev support for melee
    And some clear lack of support on the playerbase too.
    Due to the horid ai in this game and lack of foresight, keeping your distance has its advantiges without the drawbacks it should incur


    Again, try your 30 CHA sorc in new content, welcome to 0-50% damage . Try sharn goblins, your spells will deal exactly 0 damage to them .

    30 CHA was fine in gianthold and uber old quests like invaders. I dealt 0 damage in EE Borderlands with DC75 electric spells. I had to rewire the build to be able to compete some of these on r1-r2. A character that had +7 tome, reaper helmet, all relevant past lives, and nearly maxed gear charisma
    Nearly max charisma......
    So about 2 years or some months and several houndred $ down, your Sorc can be indeed uber across the game. Now compare an INQ who casually holds left button and is completing content from day 0 .... no sweat.

    In some content (undead, robots, plants), with low saves they are really strong. Once you play new content with evasion mobs... things show a different picture.



    It is definitely about gear... race choice, and a truck load of ignored variables. Gear is definitely not irrelevant, it kinda matters if a single item adds 20-25% of your power. Or a few adds up to 50-60%. At level cap not having the 9+4+2 DC items, can mean you are not landing spells most of the time... yeah totally doesnt matter...



    ***
    Dont want to pick on you or anything but in the video, on your axe guy you didnt even seem to try to avoid incoming damage :P, pulled in the whole pack and tryied to out DPS them quickly, doesnt looking like a DPS problem but manual dodge skills and layered defense problem.

    When the 1st reaver noticed you, you should have backpedaled, chop it to death, maybe even use a pull tactic, thats the point of different classes they dont all run in and cleave+bomb a full pack of mobs on a difficulty they arent prepared for :P
    Sure inq is crazy strong, but both sorc and inq are both far superior then a melee fighter, the topic of this thread
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  2. #42
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Afaik; Quickened Reconstruct cannot be interrupted, UMD healing can. (Altho. since I tend to play epics at 30, I am admittedly a little out of touch with these)...

    But honestly this is off topic, the rock solid fact is still that the Sorcerer class inherently from the levelups and enhancements doesnt give you that much power to steamroll anything. Heroic quests designed for 60 potency items - are being burned down by the newly accesible +300 spellpower just from gear, well yeah that could be an issue. Metamagic upfront adding x2.25 multiplier with no cost on SLAs, yes, issues, but they are just as much an issue to all spellcasters, since that has nothing in particular to do with Sorcerer.

    If they nerf the base class instead of the outlier layers, then it will be just back to Warlock and Wizard all day every day.... then if they nerf them, then BB farting FVS and Clerics, then Druids...

    Reaper is its own layer too, it would have been easier to run that quest when boosting with the 30% double strike on top of haste boosts. (imo the boost are fairly accessible, with little grind on easy to complete quests.)

  3. #43
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    The problem in ddo being that a melee lacks the dps for quick kills in thougher content (taking in account the melee has all the past lives, gear, build etc for said content).
    Making things worse is that armor class is mostly useless and itemisation has been extremely bad for melee toons since ravenloft hit last year. Essential stats that are required to survive basic stuff is now so spread out that you need to gimp yourself in order to close basic defences. Whille enemy ranged damage usually doesn't get near enemy melee damage so it doesn't affect ranged and casters as much



    Sure inq is crazy strong, but both sorc and inq are both far superior then a melee fighter, the topic of this thread









    Indeed.

  4. #44
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Afaik; Quickened Reconstruct cannot be interrupted, UMD healing can. (Altho. since I tend to play epics at 30, I am admittedly a little out of touch with these)...

    But honestly this is off topic, the rock solid fact is still that the Sorcerer class inherently from the levelups and enhancements doesnt give you that much power to steamroll anything. Heroic quests designed for 60 potency items - are being burned down by the newly accesible +300 spellpower just from gear, well yeah that could be an issue. Metamagic upfront adding x2.25 multiplier with no cost on SLAs, yes, issues, but they are just as much an issue to all spellcasters, since that has nothing in particular to do with Sorcerer.

    If they nerf the base class instead of the outlier layers, then it will be just back to Warlock and Wizard all day every day.... then if they nerf them, then BB farting FVS and Clerics, then Druids...

    Reaper is its own layer too, it would have been easier to run that quest when boosting with the 30% double strike on top of haste boosts. (imo the boost are fairly accessible, with little grind on easy to complete quests.)








    True.

  5. #45
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Afaik; Quickened Reconstruct cannot be interrupted, UMD healing can. (Altho. since I tend to play epics at 30, I am admittedly a little out of touch with these)...

    But honestly this is off topic, the rock solid fact is still that the Sorcerer class inherently from the levelups and enhancements doesnt give you that much power to steamroll anything. Heroic quests designed for 60 potency items - are being burned down by the newly accesible +300 spellpower just from gear, well yeah that could be an issue. Metamagic upfront adding x2.25 multiplier with no cost on SLAs, yes, issues, but they are just as much an issue to all spellcasters, since that has nothing in particular to do with Sorcerer.

    If they nerf the base class instead of the outlier layers, then it will be just back to Warlock and Wizard all day every day.... then if they nerf them, then BB farting FVS and Clerics, then Druids...

    Reaper is its own layer too, it would have been easier to run that quest when boosting with the 30% double strike on top of haste boosts. (imo the boost are fairly accessible, with little grind on easy to complete quests.)
    Why nerf instead of boosting melee?
    And heroic quest made for 60 potency you should play an alt or tr more often, that is only the case in old content in heroics.

    And doublestrike doesn't work properly on all the melee styles, 2hf and cleaves are the red headed stepchild (2hf glancing blows, if they do hit in endgame due to the insane mob ac) doesn't crit, so with unbreakeble dr, prr and reaper debuf, gla cing blows...well, they kinda blow.

    It's kinda funny to see all the melee gear and some 2hw related stuff getting doublestrike (looking at the dev that put the worthless doublestrike on the bloodrage chrism), it's "use impaired" at best, insulting at worst because we told the devs this so many times now.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  6. #46
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    As a PM, I want to know when the awesomeness of Eldritch Strike shows up. Cleave +1 weapon damage and 1d3 damage per character level isn't doing much for me at level 24 with 350 force spell power. It certainly isn't clearing rooms.

    Where am I going wrong? (Yes int to hit/damage KTA)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blase View Post
    As a PM, I want to know when the awesomeness of Eldritch Strike shows up. Cleave +1 weapon damage and 1d3 damage per character level isn't doing much for me at level 24 with 350 force spell power. It certainly isn't clearing rooms.

    Where am I going wrong? (Yes int to hit/damage KTA)
    I think they referring to tier 5 ability

    Then i think caster should do MORE DAMAGE but with LIMITED RESOURCES.
    And defenses of melee toon should be more more higher than others.

    Instead now i can reach very high defenses with casters and ranged

    And spell points are limitless.

    Lost souls in reaper for example is a nonsense

    The real prolem is that, due to low popilation, they want any class to solo any content.

    Probably to improve things they should really increase melee defenses so they can survive more hit in reaper.
    Last edited by Alled78; 11-19-2019 at 04:42 AM.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    Why nerf instead of boosting melee?
    And heroic quest made for 60 potency you should play an alt or tr more often, that is only the case in old content in heroics.

    And doublestrike doesn't work properly on all the melee styles, 2hf and cleaves are the red headed stepchild (2hf glancing blows, if they do hit in endgame due to the insane mob ac) doesn't crit, so with unbreakeble dr, prr and reaper debuf, gla cing blows...well, they kinda blow.

    It's kinda funny to see all the melee gear and some 2hw related stuff getting doublestrike (looking at the dev that put the worthless doublestrike on the bloodrage chrism), it's "use impaired" at best, insulting at worst because we told the devs this so many times now.






    Two handed fighting could get critical glancing blows and double glancing blows may be ?

    I still think Glancing blow hitting more often but also Two handers (also Bastard s and D axe only when nothing at offhand) doing 2x ability modifier aswell as small extra chance to critical modifier (not threat) would work.




    Anyhow melee martial characters (Especially Fighter and Barbarian) simply need more optionals.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix6EkkI3Low







    Auto granted Die hard feat with temporary hitpoints at unconsciousness mode, equal to your base hitpoints total.



    Choose one of these for your warrior:


    15 str, 15 dex, 13 con Run faster +%25, attack faster +%25 (no extra hit chances) with 15 second cooldown. Passive +%10 movement. +%10 attack speed (No limits for use).

    17 str, 13 dex, 13 cons Run faster +%6. +%5 passive damage boost. +%1 extra damage boost every other level. +%1 chance bonus to stun and knock down and bash/shield bash attacks. Running long jump towards the enemy (+%50 distance), Knock down attack. Hostile npc stays down for 6 seconds including knock down, lay on floor and wake up animations (%50 chance) with auto granted +%30 damage boost with cooldown. 15 second cooldown (No limit for use).

    13 str, 17 dex, 12 cons Passive Extra will, double reflex and dodge chances. No passive movement speed change. Dexterity modifier is added to your strength modifier to hit (not damage) at melee range attacks. Extra saves against traps. Evasion as martial feat at lvl 10. %10 movement speed every 15 seconds for a duration of 9 seconds.

    12 str, 13 dex, 16 con, 15 wis auto granted double bonus to will and fortitude saves. Doesnt fail at rolling 1 against will, fortitude based attacks and spell effects. %50 chance to save against effects, traps and spells with non damaging efects (Negative levels, Charms, Weakness, Sleep, Slow and any similar effect). Immunity to harmfull effects at lvl 10 and further. Can use half of the stat modifer (Constitution or wisdom) to hit bonus (not to damage). %10 chance to trigger temprorary hitpoints equal to your base total hitpoints.


    13 str, 13 dex, 14 cons, 15 wis, 15 intelligence. Auto granted tactical bonus every two character levels. +%5 movement and attack speed. +%1 every other level. +1 to all saves every three levels. +1 to all skills every other level. +%5 tactical bonus to any fighting style or martial feat effect (including the fighting styles) every five levels. Extra rolls against harmfull effects if fail(No immunity). True seeing.
    Last edited by Kutalp; 11-19-2019 at 05:33 AM.

  9. #49
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    I think they referring to tier 5 ability

    Then i think caster should do MORE DAMAGE but with LIMITED RESOURCES.
    And defenses of melee toon should be more more higher than others.

    Instead now i can reach very high defenses with casters and ranged

    And spell points are limitless.

    Lost souls in reaper for example is a nonsense

    The real prolem is that, due to low popilation, they want any class to solo any content.

    Probably to improve things they should really increase melee defenses so they can survive more hit in reaper.








    Summarised very well.

  10. #50
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Afaik; Quickened Reconstruct cannot be interrupted, UMD healing can. (Altho. since I tend to play epics at 30, I am admittedly a little out of touch with these)...

    But honestly this is off topic, the rock solid fact is still that the Sorcerer class inherently from the levelups and enhancements doesnt give you that much power to steamroll anything. Heroic quests designed for 60 potency items - are being burned down by the newly accesible +300 spellpower just from gear, well yeah that could be an issue. Metamagic upfront adding x2.25 multiplier with no cost on SLAs, yes, issues, but they are just as much an issue to all spellcasters, since that has nothing in particular to do with Sorcerer.

    If they nerf the base class instead of the outlier layers, then it will be just back to Warlock and Wizard all day every day.... then if they nerf them, then BB farting FVS and Clerics, then Druids...

    Reaper is its own layer too, it would have been easier to run that quest when boosting with the 30% double strike on top of haste boosts. (imo the boost are fairly accessible, with little grind on easy to complete quests.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    Two handed fighting could get critical glancing blows and double glancing blows may be ?

    I still think Glancing blow hitting more often but also Two handers (also Bastard s and D axe only when nothing at offhand) doing 2x ability modifier aswell as small extra chance to critical modifier (not threat) would work.




    Anyhow melee martial characters (Especially Fighter and Barbarian) simply need more optionals.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix6EkkI3Low







    Auto granted Die hard feat with temporary hitpoints at unconsciousness mode, equal to your base hitpoints total.



    Choose one of these for your warrior:


    15 str, 15 dex, 13 con Run faster +%25, attack faster +%25 (no extra hit chances) with 15 second cooldown. Passive +%10 movement. +%10 attack speed (No limits for use).

    17 str, 13 dex, 13 cons Run faster +%6. +%5 passive damage boost. +%1 extra damage boost every other level. +%1 chance bonus to stun and knock down and bash/shield bash attacks. Running long jump towards the enemy (+%50 distance), Knock down attack. Hostile npc stays down for 6 seconds including knock down, lay on floor and wake up animations (%50 chance) with auto granted +%30 damage boost with cooldown. 15 second cooldown (No limit for use).

    13 str, 17 dex, 12 cons Passive Extra will, double reflex and dodge chances. No passive movement speed change. Dexterity modifier is added to your strength modifier to hit (not damage) at melee range attacks. Extra saves against traps. Evasion as martial feat at lvl 10. %10 movement speed every 15 seconds for a duration of 9 seconds.

    12 str, 13 dex, 16 con, 15 wis auto granted double bonus to will and fortitude saves. Doesnt fail at rolling 1 against will, fortitude based attacks and spell effects. %50 chance to save against effects, traps and spells with non damaging efects (Negative levels, Charms, Weakness, Sleep, Slow and any similar effect). Immunity to harmfull effects at lvl 10 and further. Can use half of the stat modifer (Constitution or wisdom) to hit bonus (not to damage). %10 chance to trigger temprorary hitpoints equal to your base total hitpoints.


    13 str, 13 dex, 14 cons, 15 wis, 15 intelligence. Auto granted tactical bonus every two character levels. +%5 movement and attack speed. +%1 every other level. +1 to all saves every three levels. +1 to all skills every other level. +%5 tactical bonus to any fighting style or martial feat effect (including the fighting styles) every five levels. Extra rolls against harmfull effects if fail(No immunity). True seeing.

    What barbarians could use is class specific feats tha require x amount of barb levels, just like the fighter because the rage ability doesn't scale wel into epics and the penalties are insanely limiting.
    Limited by barbarian to prevent bear shenanigans.
    And something should be done with the enh trees, rage boost enh should all be in FB, ocult slayer should be shredded and sprinkled over the 2 remaining trees, a new tree like bear warior (where rage lets you become a humanoid bear, like a lycantrope) or runescared berzerker that adds paladin esque spellcasting with added defences.

    Anthing better then the mess we have now, it doesn't fit with the content.

    And 2hf needs a --->good<---- overhaul, no monkey paw nonsence or worthle token past lives that they put in the wrong sphere to be usefull.

    But then again, this entire thread is most likely on the dev ignore list by now.....
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  11. #51
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    Here is the test I use myself to see if a class is viable.

    Make a toon, single class.
    no universal enhancement trees. just the class ones.

    If that toon can successfully complete ANY heroic dungeon on normal
    solo or on hard with a hireling healer - AT level, or one below level with
    hireling healer (hard), then it is viable.

    If it cannot not, it is not.

    This is just with normal gear you would readily find at your level from drops,
    no twink gear.

    If solo you can carry healing potions.

    sounds easy? Some classes can not do it.

    lower levels, sure any class is good...mid to upper levels not so much.
    Higher level dungeons on normal will quickly show you what classes are
    basically gimp.

    that is the ruler I use.

    by my standards - basic bards and monks are gimp.
    at high level, first saving throw a monk misses is death.
    at high level, bards just can't do enough melee or spell damage solo to survive a large mob if his CC gets disrupted.

    but that is me and my play style...you might have better luck with them

    point being, if you (yourself) can run a pure class, at level on normal or hard (with hireling)
    solo, that class is fine. It is as it should be.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    Here is the test I use myself to see if a class is viable.

    Make a toon, single class.
    no universal enhancement trees. just the class ones.

    If that toon can successfully complete ANY heroic dungeon on normal
    solo or on hard with a hireling healer - AT level, or one below level with
    hireling healer (hard), then it is viable.

    If it cannot not, it is not.

    So everything is viable, by your assessment. Most classes can do this without even spending ANY ap.

    That doesn't change that some builds vastly out perform others. Yes there should be a difference, and hopefully it's that they bring different things to the table... but those things have to be useful. When certain classes can clear content solo faster than a well balanced group of non-OP builds that's an issue to many people.

  13. #53
    Community Member AestorTheKnight's Avatar
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    Okay - this point has really got me thinking.

    Why does the Wizard / Sorceror Eldritch Knight have the MOST POWERFUL Melee Attack in the whole game?

    That is Eldritch Tempest (Not Eldritch Strike sorry - as I wrote previously in this Thread. ) Lets take a look at what it does:

    Eldritch Tempest:

    Costs 15 SP - 30 Second Cooldown.

    Melee Cleave at +5[W]
    +10 Critical Threat Range
    +3 Critical Multiplier
    Deals 1d6 Force Damage Per Character Level (Effected by Spell Power) in AoE blast.
    Knock Down any hit enemy for 1 second (No Save), and slows them by 50% for 6 seconds.

    Very powerful, and you can easily 1 shot a group of mobs with it.

    Now lets compare it to the Barbarian Tier 5 Frenzied Beserker ability - Tantrum.

    Tantrum:

    Cost 25 HP (Great you can kill yourself with it. lol ) - 30 Second Cooldown.

    Melee Cleave at +5[W]
    50% chance to knockdown enemies briefly, on a failed Fortitude Save (10 + Barb Level + Str Mod.)
    Has some other irellevant effects based on the rest of the tree, such as reducing enemies AC - which doesnt matter - giving 10 temp HP -- Wow thats powerful. etc etc blah blah.


    Just looking at these two Tier 5 Abilities it is BLATENTLY OBVIOUS that Melee Classes and Caster Classes are NOT Balanced Properly.

    Why does Wizard Eldritch Knight have a Melee Cleave that is vastly more powerful than the Barbarian?

    Does not make any sense.
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  14. #54
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AestorTheKnight View Post
    Okay - this point has really got me thinking.



    Why does Wizard Eldritch Knight have a Melee Cleave that is vastly more powerful than the Barbarian?

    Does not make any sense.
    Now, this is really nicely presented point. Agreed, the Barb T5 needs a little bit of stomping power, or EK toned back by a few factors

  15. #55
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AestorTheKnight View Post
    Why does Wizard Eldritch Knight have a Melee Cleave that is vastly more powerful than the Barbarian?

    Does not make any sense.
    And if it does make sense then you cannot convict my Client....

    Very good Points.
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  16. #56
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AestorTheKnight View Post
    Okay - this point has really got me thinking.

    Why does the Wizard / Sorceror Eldritch Knight have the MOST POWERFUL Melee Attack in the whole game?

    That is Eldritch Tempest (Not Eldritch Strike sorry - as I wrote previously in this Thread. ) Lets take a look at what it does:

    Eldritch Tempest:

    Costs 15 SP - 30 Second Cooldown.

    Melee Cleave at +5[W]
    +10 Critical Threat Range
    +3 Critical Multiplier
    Deals 1d6 Force Damage Per Character Level (Effected by Spell Power) in AoE blast.
    Knock Down any hit enemy for 1 second (No Save), and slows them by 50% for 6 seconds.

    Very powerful, and you can easily 1 shot a group of mobs with it.

    Now lets compare it to the Barbarian Tier 5 Frenzied Beserker ability - Tantrum.

    Tantrum:

    Cost 25 HP (Great you can kill yourself with it. lol ) - 30 Second Cooldown.

    Melee Cleave at +5[W]
    50% chance to knockdown enemies briefly, on a failed Fortitude Save (10 + Barb Level + Str Mod.)
    Has some other irellevant effects based on the rest of the tree, such as reducing enemies AC - which doesnt matter - giving 10 temp HP -- Wow thats powerful. etc etc blah blah.


    Just looking at these two Tier 5 Abilities it is BLATENTLY OBVIOUS that Melee Classes and Caster Classes are NOT Balanced Properly.

    Why does Wizard Eldritch Knight have a Melee Cleave that is vastly more powerful than the Barbarian?

    Does not make any sense.

    BeensYing things like this for years...... It falls on deaf ears.

    Hoe many devs have you seen chime in on these issues, let alone do some thing positive with it?

    They don't xare enouh to allocate resources to this issue, i guess mana pot sales and personal prefrences triomf over a ballanced game and keeping melee players happy.

    Or it's a wrong way of reasoning on their part, wouldn't be the first time.
    An example:

    Dev 1: a lot of threads pop up about melee, should we do something about that?
    Dev 2: takes a look at the class icons per server and claims not enough people want to play melee and continues to play some other game.

    Ofcourse dev 2 doesn't interact with the community, otherwise he would have known a lot of (high end) melee players stopped playing (ddo or the melee playstyle).

    Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning.

    On the other hand, nothing could be wrong with the melee playstyle and all these threads that popped up and died out over the years could all be wrong......
    I mean, what do players who love the playstyle realy know about this topic? I bet the devs play melee a lot more then we ever did and this all fits in the masterplan.
    It's not like the devs have a forum squelch list and never see these posts and topics...... Or do they?

    All joking asside, the things are the way they are, if half a decade isn't enough to sway opinions, whats another thread?
    Last edited by lyrecono; 11-19-2019 at 11:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  17. #57
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    SSG converted DDO into a game of winners and losers, where being as powerful as someone else determines success.

    Why they did this instead of developing a game based on success through play choices and unique contributions is beyond me. It is the antithesis of the D&D experience. Having unique contributions ensures your participation will be valuable at any level of character power. DDO currently comes nowhere meeting this goal.

    SSG can not balance their game, and worse, they have no intention of doing so. There will be new winners and losers next update (that's their revenue model), without any improvement to play choices or unique contributions.

    Please stop fighting over winners and losers and realize what is happening. You should all be arguing against design that picks winners and losers as their revenue generation system instead of bickering about the latest winners and losers.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    SSG converted DDO into a game of winners and losers, where being as powerful as someone else determines success.

    Why they did this instead of developing a game based on success through play choices and unique contributions is beyond me. It is the antithesis of the D&D experience. Having unique contributions ensures your participation will be valuable at any level of character power. DDO currently comes nowhere meeting this goal.

    SSG can not balance their game, and worse, they have no intention of doing so. There will be new winners and losers next update (that's their revenue model), without any improvement to play choices or unique contributions.

    Please stop fighting over winners and losers and realize what is happening. You should all be arguing against design that picks winners and losers as their revenue generation system instead of bickering about the latest winners and losers.
    DDO was a PTW game long before SSG, and that kinda balance is hardly antithetical to the DND experience. Every edition I've ever played either had random rolled stats so one player would always be far better, or had a horribly unbalanced class system, or the DM was biased one way or the other, or all the above. 3.0/3.5 was probably the most notorious, it's known as caster edition for a reason and it's what DDO is based on, which is ironic considering DDO was melee edition through most of its history and has just brought ranged and casters up in the last year or two.

  19. #59
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    DDO was a PTW game long before SSG, and that kinda balance is hardly antithetical to the DND experience. Every edition I've ever played either had random rolled stats so one player would always be far better, or had a horribly unbalanced class system, or the DM was biased one way or the other, or all the above. 3.0/3.5 was probably the most notorious, it's known as caster edition for a reason and it's what DDO is based on, which is ironic considering DDO was melee edition through most of its history and has just brought ranged and casters up in the last year or two.
    Ddo has been a caster thing for far longer then that.

    Caster only parties to farm IQ, casters solo farming the first epics (when the cap was 20) to farm epic scrolls, one of the end game currencies (just like large devil scales)

    Everytime instakilling was prefered over a slogfest, casters ruled., Especially since it was a better use of mana then to heal the melees, mobs were hitting to hard and took to long to kill with dps.

    Sure casting had to take the ocaisional backseat ride (menace of the underdark for example) untill gear cought up.
    But in general, they have always been in a better position then melee. With the added benefit of the safety provided by not having to be within melee range to do what they need to do and having back up options if instakilling isn't an option like party buffs, support, dottting and crowd control.

    Unlike a melee who only pike when he can't stay within melee range and can't even solo, unless i missed all the fb and kensai only completions of endgame raids back in the day.....

    As for the situation melee is in, a friend of mine always thought it was a power fantasy for the weak, a petty vengeance of a nerd on the jock who got to date the prom queen while he was hanging on the top of a flagpole by his underwear.
    Melee is just that weak in D&D, especially when the mage learns high level spells.

    Melee in most of d&d inspired works is a lv1-5 ordeal, maybe up to 10 if we're being generous.


    But to be fair, we're wasting our time here, the devs don't care, the tread on a missing reaper cosmetic has garnered more ssg attention then this discussion has.

    This will never be resolved by ssg.
    The ddo private server project is nearly done, maybe that will solve these issues, if not, i can only recomend that melee orientated players go elsewhere (and take their money with them, ssg shouldn't be finacialy rewarded for the mess they left melee in).
    I have, best thing i did in years.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  20. #60
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    One of the hardest to get raid gear back in da dino days ( already updated with implement, which is a minor buff/nerf depending on what your class icon is):



    vs

    Easy f2p solo farm in harbor :P. (ignore the reaper boost)



    then, even ignoring the set bonus



    Challenge item elemental gear over 90. (altho these are harder to farm these days, very few ppl play these)

    Cannith crafted insightful spellpower +42 @ level 12.

    Spellcraft skill (higher INT skill bonuses also add up)
    Spellsight of insightful spellsight 14+7.

    Safe to guess +45 spellpower from spellcraft twink. (+5 from skill tome available from store)


    The only outlier seems to be the belt.

    Crazy stuff for even moar :P.
    Dice USP pots: +15

    Lazy calc around 250 spell power for elemental spells from items, versus the +50 you get from Sorcerer *exclusively* by 12 :P.

    =====5:1=====
    Gear vs Class


    ..in heroic and we arent even at 18 yet, let alone 30 where gear will massively out class Sorcerer grants :P. A base element item's 214 spell power vs 80 from Sorcerer Cores. Wellspring of Power (LVL21 feat) gives more than double scaling of your cores before the CL increases. Which add up around .3 / .35 except... when they are broken and you cast @-10 CL on Meteorswarm with the Air capstone :P. Armchair Sorcs rarely know the pain the capstone adds. Say bye to both level 9 aoes .

    Combine this with the worst feat starvation of any class, aweful defenses and bottom tier DCs.
    Last edited by janave; 11-20-2019 at 03:40 AM.

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