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  1. #1
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Default Top 5 classes/builds you see the least of?

    My main on Argo has been at cap since right before U43, grinding out reaper points, new gear, doing raids, etc, and I've noticed that there are some classes or specific builds that just aren't played very often because I rarely see them in parties. This, I think, is mostly due to them being underpowered or lacking in something that makes them stand out in the crowd. At high levels of play, I don't see many of these:

    1. Arcanotechnician - I've seen quite a few ranged artificers running around (not including inquisitives), and a few artificer tanks, but arcanotechs are extremely rare. They're the only spellcaster that doesn't have an actual instakill spell and their spell damage drops off significantly when transitioning from heroics into epics. Tactical Detonation is decent, but there are classes with much better crowd control potential.

    2. Evocation Druid - I've seen maybe a handful of these guys around in the last few months. Nowadays everybody is looking for mass hold, not earthquake, and the druid's lack of spell damage in epics certainly doesn't make them desirable as a nuker. At least 75% of druids I see are melee wolves, and even those are quite rare.

    3. Spellsinger Bard - As this is what my main is, I can definitely say it's an acquired taste to take on a full support role. You have a plethora of crowd control options and plenty of buffs and healing to go around, but your damage is rock bottom to the point that almost nobody wants to play it as a spellcaster, and only a few play it as a hybrid Swashsinger. The unreasonable 20 second cooldown on mass hold and lack of web or tentacles makes takes them down a few notches behind other DC casters.

    4. Melee Rogue - I've seen a few rogue assassins, but not many, and very few acrobats. Gone are the days of sneaky halflings going around groups of mobs to assassinate the casters from behind. Rogue are either mechanics or inquisitives, now. Sad; stealth used to be such an art form, now it takes ungodly amounts of hide/move silently to become useful in high end content and reapers just completely blow your cover.

    5. Vanguard - This is an odd one, considering it used to be very popular pre-sharn. I don't know what happened, but I rarely see fighters or paladins running around S&B, anymore, bullrushing into groups of mobs. I've seen more actual tanks than off-tanks, lately, and I can't remember the last time I heard a fighter talk about their shield bash crits.
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  2. #2
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    Also on Argo, but I'm mostly on the TR hamsterwheel. I don't disagree with the above list (though I have recently run a pure rogue acrobat *and* assassin because I'm a masochist...)

    1. Legit Sorc EK. Not "Fire Sorc + 22 points EK for medium armor", but I have yet to see a sorc who hits things in melee

    2. Tempest or tempest-like rangers. Pretty much everyone I see with 6 ranger is doing it for Inquisitive

    3. I've seen exactly one Henshin Mystic in the past year, which isn't too surprising after the series of nerfs. No, I'm not counting Strimtom's iteration because I didn't see it in-game

    4. Paladins in general (though especially Vanguards, as HastyPudding said) - I've seen one or two, but nothing like the glory days of when I started playing, at which point every build went 14 levels for Holy Sword and Zeal. But this is more than hyberbolic / curmudgeonly cane-waving, especially since Reaper has become the norm. I would still expect to see more Paladins than Fighters, which absolutely isn't the case

    5. Alchemists. I'm sure you're hiding out there somewhere, but I have yet to see you

  3. #3
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Ninja spy
    Ninja spy
    Ninja spy
    N... Defender Paladin
    Beacon FvS, Henshins...
    I ve seen exactly one SE Warlock ...ever

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discpsycho View Post
    Also on Argo, but I'm mostly on the TR hamsterwheel. I don't disagree with the above list (though I have recently run a pure rogue acrobat *and* assassin because I'm a masochist...)

    1. Legit Sorc EK. Not "Fire Sorc + 22 points EK for medium armor", but I have yet to see a sorc who hits things in melee

    2. Tempest or tempest-like rangers. Pretty much everyone I see with 6 ranger is doing it for Inquisitive

    3. I've seen exactly one Henshin Mystic in the past year, which isn't too surprising after the series of nerfs. No, I'm not counting Strimtom's iteration because I didn't see it in-game

    4. Paladins in general (though especially Vanguards, as HastyPudding said) - I've seen one or two, but nothing like the glory days of when I started playing, at which point every build went 14 levels for Holy Sword and Zeal. But this is more than hyberbolic / curmudgeonly cane-waving, especially since Reaper has become the norm. I would still expect to see more Paladins than Fighters, which absolutely isn't the case

    5. Alchemists. I'm sure you're hiding out there somewhere, but I have yet to see you

    I saw a sorc EK once. Everyone made fun of him. And he died a lot. Many laughs were had.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Ninja spy
    Ninja spy
    Ninja spy
    Do throwers count, I wonder? The best throwers I've seen are 14 Monk, 6 Ranger for the extra 10k Stars boosts. While T5 goes to DWS, Shuriken Expertise + Ninja Training is the cornerstone of it all. At least in that capacity the tree is serving its purpose, even if nobody ever runs it for melee...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    I saw a sorc EK once. Everyone made fun of him. And he died a lot. Many laughs were had.
    Until they get cha to dmg native, I don't think sorc EK is really a viable build. Being stuck with PDK or Swash is too limiting on a build that already spreads you thin on stats and gear and feats and BAB

  7. #7

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    Can't really say I have noticed particular classes standing out other than the dual crossbows but I have definitely not seen many weaponized melee monks, so ninjas and WSS builds even after Knight's Training. I am, of course, running one on Cannith
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  8. #8
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    ES warlocks (because the spec has never been good even before the repeated nerfs)

    Monks in general, occasional handwrap or shuriken (though most of the latter have TR'd to inquisitive) but it's been over a year since I've seen a WSS or henshin, I don't think I've seen a shortsword ninjaspy since MOTU.

    Rangers other than as a splash on throwers or inquisitive, I've seen 1 tempest ranger a few months ago and it's been forever since I've seen a bow ranger.

    EK in general but especially sorc EK.

    Wolfs are surprisingly rare and were so even before their nerf, despite being one of the few melee builds that can actually compete with inquisitive dps.

    What do I see most often? rogues (either greatxbow or inquisitive, even the odd dagger assassin), Sorc (almost always fire), undead PM instakiller, and the occasional swash bard, oh and literally any class even casters who just put on a ratcatcher and put 41 points in inquisitive from 8-30

  9. #9

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    Uhh, I've played a lot of these. Am I a hipster and don't know it?

    My past lives include Caster Arti, Henshin Mystic, BF 20 Pali, and I'm doing a Bard life that only uses a little Swashbuckler. My next life will be melee Rogue.
    Build a man a fire and he is warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #10
    Community Member Pnumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    ES warlocks (because the spec has never been good even before the repeated nerfs)

    Monks in general, occasional handwrap or shuriken (though most of the latter have TR'd to inquisitive) but it's been over a year since I've seen a WSS or henshin, I don't think I've seen a shortsword ninjaspy since MOTU.

    Rangers other than as a splash on throwers or inquisitive, I've seen 1 tempest ranger a few months ago and it's been forever since I've seen a bow ranger.

    EK in general but especially sorc EK.

    Wolfs are surprisingly rare and were so even before their nerf, despite being one of the few melee builds that can actually compete with inquisitive dps.

    What do I see most often? rogues (either greatxbow or inquisitive, even the odd dagger assassin), Sorc (almost always fire), undead PM instakiller, and the occasional swash bard, oh and literally any class even casters who just put on a ratcatcher and put 41 points in inquisitive from 8-30
    I agree with this post.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    snip
    What do I see most often? rogues (either greatxbow or inquisitive, even the odd dagger assassin), Sorc (almost always fire), undead PM instakiller, and the occasional swash bard, oh and literally any class even casters who just put on a ratcatcher and put 41 points in inquisitive from 8-30
    OMG DDO population in a nutshell--take the easy route for fast PLs obsessive on individual power
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  12. #12
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Two handed fighting Sorcerer/Summoner Eldricht (Elric) knight.





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMC8PwB56tk
    Last edited by Kutalp; 11-03-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Spellsinger Bard is one that baffles me. I've run a couple and loved them. I don't know why they're so unplayed, because they're some pretty strong casters with great versatility. I know they're not the best damage casters, but there are many other casting builds that get played that are likely similar in power to Spellsingers done right that get more love.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
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  14. #14
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    Henshin Mystic/Ninja Spy is fine, just put 41pts in Inq first ;-)

    WF Sorc EK with points in Inq and KTA should actually be pretty good for heroics at least.

  15. #15
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSQ View Post
    Spellsinger Bard is one that baffles me. I've run a couple and loved them. I don't know why they're so unplayed, because they're some pretty strong casters with great versatility. I know they're not the best damage casters, but there are many other casting builds that get played that are likely similar in power to Spellsingers done right that get more love.
    I main one, and I'll be the first to admit they really are a jack of all trades.
    - They have good spell DC's, but they lack crowd control and utility against things you can't hold (like undead, golems, scorpions, oozes, etc). At best, they have soundburst against some constructs and vermin, which has to be spammed due to its short duration, which is very taxing on spell points during longer fights. They do get mass hold as an SLA, but it's locked in tier 5, costs a whooping 6 AP to max, and has a 20 second cooldown; not optimal, forcing you to rely on other spells and a single target hold monster. Fascinate only goes so far with people swinging around giant axes and blasting out AoE spells. Arpeggio is very nice if you're an iconic tiefling, but it's only one mob and only once every 12 seconds. A pure spellsinger gets wail, and can obtain surprisingly decent necromancy DC's, but that's on a long cooldown and they have no single target or ranged instakills. With the nerfing of charms recently, spellsingers can't even utilize that to their advantage, which was one of their strong suits.

    - They're like a sonic sorcerer from levels 1-18, but after that their damage goes downhill faster than any other class. With the best gear I can find, a sharn set, and over 80 past lives behind me, I'm happy to hit maybe a 6k crit with greater shout on a held mob. That's small potatoes even to a healbot cleric using divine wrath or sun bolt. The only redeemable quality in this regard is that it's sonic damage, which is very rarely resisted by anything.

    - They have good healing, but they're outclassed by a good radiant cleric or a beacon favored soul. Spellsingers do some great healing, but when it comes right down to it, radiants and beacons are going to get more bang for their buck and are far more sturdier so they can stand in the front line. The change to the Renewal SLA so that it heals instantly as well as over time was a godsend to spellsingers because it's cheap and spammable.

    - The only area where Spellsinger beats other casters is buffs; you can't deny the absurd utility of their songs. They only useful buff they don't get is jump. Unfortunately, a passive buffing role is not sufficient enough to warrant them a party slot unless they can do other things.

    So yeah, jack of all trades, master of only one (buffing). Pound for pound, clerics and fvs heal better and are more survivable, a well-geared wizard is superior CC, and their damage output is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Indubitably's Avatar
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    Artificer - Arcano > Simply don't exist.
    Barbarian - Occult Slayer > Simply doesn't exist.
    Bard - Actually think they're good. And a good selection of all three (spellsingers inc, although complaining about T5 SLA aside).
    Cleric - Fairly OK.
    Druid - Herald > VERY rare, but seen 1 or 2. OK amount of wolves, some bears (expected ratio since they are tanks)
    Favored Soul - In a very good spot, see all types, more BoH than I would of expected, more than cleric RS. More warsouls than warpriests.
    Fighter - Vanguard > Fairly rare. Otherwise still a popular class as always.
    Monk - Henshin > Trying to remember the last time i saw one...
    - Shinto > Thrower yes, shortword - never.
    Paladin - KotC > Very rare... maybe 1 or 2
    - Vanguard/SD > Almost as rare as KotC, rarer than fighter vanguard... paladins are rare in general
    Ranger - Super rare as a whole class. AA very rare, tempest rarer, DWS recently as a splash for Inq only.
    Rogue
    - Assassin > Fairly rare, but then ones I've seen were gods. Just slow at the hamster wheel I guess.
    - Acrobat > Simply doesn't exist ... Just like Henshin Mystic
    - Mechanic > Super popular, although more splashes of it now for inq.
    Sorcerer - Savant > Popular enough... mostly fire, some cold or lightning.... never acid.
    - EK > Rare.
    Warlock - ES & SE > Popular. TS > Does not exist.
    Wizard - No AMs, mostly necro, some EKs (usually Inq) overall less popular than sorc.
    Of Course I can CC - Death is a form of CC.
    My other character is a triple everything completionist.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    My main on Argo has been at cap since right before U43, grinding out reaper points, new gear, doing raids, etc, and I've noticed that there are some classes or specific builds that just aren't played very often because I rarely see them in parties. This, I think, is mostly due to them being underpowered or lacking in something that makes them stand out in the crowd. At high levels of play, I don't see many of these:

    2. Evocation Druid - I've seen maybe a handful of these guys around in the last few months. Nowadays everybody is looking for mass hold, not earthquake, and the druid's lack of spell damage in epics certainly doesn't make them desirable as a nuker. At least 75% of druids I see are melee wolves, and even those are quite rare.

    4. Melee Rogue - I've seen a few rogue assassins, but not many, and very few acrobats. Gone are the days of sneaky halflings going around groups of mobs to assassinate the casters from behind. Rogue are either mechanics or inquisitives, now. Sad; stealth used to be such an art form, now it takes ungodly amounts of hide/move silently to become useful in high end content and reapers just completely blow your cover.

    5. Vanguard - This is an odd one, considering it used to be very popular pre-sharn. I don't know what happened, but I rarely see fighters or paladins running around S&B, anymore, bullrushing into groups of mobs. I've seen more actual tanks than off-tanks, lately, and I can't remember the last time I heard a fighter talk about their shield bash crits.
    I actually know a few Evo Druids, they have ridiculously good single target damage using cold spells and water elemental form. Their only issue is they don't many big room wipers like Fire sorcs do so they tend to play slower and more careful, got built in healing though.

    I've played melee rogue, it's super fun and effective if someone goes Assassin + Visanti. Their issue is how squishy they can be and how much of their damage relies on sneak attacks. Basically if there isn't a *tank* they lag behind, and then there is Inquisitive which unequivocally destroys all other DPS builds.

    Oh vanguard, it's a difficult build to pull off. Firstly realize that if someone is putting points in Vanguard as a DPS they absolutely are not tanks because they aren't putting points inside Defender. I've recently done both Paladin and Fighter version, Fighter is just better at it due to feats and tactics but it requires a full 20 levels of either for the capstone. Also it's very slow to start due to most shields sucking until 29 when the mother of all DPS shields becomes available, Legendary Best Defense. That thing has a 2D10+10 base damage dice along with Keen V, which when combined with the Vanguard +W bonus's causes the shield bash's to deal more damage then the main hand weapon hits. That being said, the main hand weapon is still the dominate damage source as it hits more often due to the 1s restriction on shield bashing. Still with tactics feats, Dire Charge, Stunning Shield, Stunning Blow and random shield bash stuns (10% now) a fighter becomes a beast at making things helpless.

  18. #18
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    I actually know a few Evo Druids, they have ridiculously good single target damage using cold spells and water elemental form. Their only issue is they don't many big room wipers like Fire sorcs do so they tend to play slower and more careful, got built in healing though.

    I've played melee rogue, it's super fun and effective if someone goes Assassin + Visanti. Their issue is how squishy they can be and how much of their damage relies on sneak attacks. Basically if there isn't a *tank* they lag behind, and then there is Inquisitive which unequivocally destroys all other DPS builds.

    Oh vanguard, it's a difficult build to pull off. Firstly realize that if someone is putting points in Vanguard as a DPS they absolutely are not tanks because they aren't putting points inside Defender. I've recently done both Paladin and Fighter version, Fighter is just better at it due to feats and tactics but it requires a full 20 levels of either for the capstone. Also it's very slow to start due to most shields sucking until 29 when the mother of all DPS shields becomes available, Legendary Best Defense. That thing has a 2D10+10 base damage dice along with Keen V, which when combined with the Vanguard +W bonus's causes the shield bash's to deal more damage then the main hand weapon hits. That being said, the main hand weapon is still the dominate damage source as it hits more often due to the 1s restriction on shield bashing. Still with tactics feats, Dire Charge, Stunning Shield, Stunning Blow and random shield bash stuns (10% now) a fighter becomes a beast at making things helpless.
    Yeah, evocation druids have decent single target damage (more so on bosses due to dots) but their damage just can't match a sorcerer, or even most wizards, warlocks, or fvs.
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  19. #19
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    My main on Argo has been at cap since right before U43, grinding out reaper points, new gear, doing raids, etc, and I've noticed that there are some classes or specific builds that just aren't played very often because I rarely see them in parties. This, I think, is mostly due to them being underpowered or lacking in something that makes them stand out in the crowd. At high levels of play, I don't see many of these:

    1. Arcanotechnician - I've seen quite a few ranged artificers running around (not including inquisitives), and a few artificer tanks, but arcanotechs are extremely rare. They're the only spellcaster that doesn't have an actual instakill spell and their spell damage drops off significantly when transitioning from heroics into epics. Tactical Detonation is decent, but there are classes with much better crowd control potential.

    2. Evocation Druid - I've seen maybe a handful of these guys around in the last few months. Nowadays everybody is looking for mass hold, not earthquake, and the druid's lack of spell damage in epics certainly doesn't make them desirable as a nuker. At least 75% of druids I see are melee wolves, and even those are quite rare.

    3. Spellsinger Bard - As this is what my main is, I can definitely say it's an acquired taste to take on a full support role. You have a plethora of crowd control options and plenty of buffs and healing to go around, but your damage is rock bottom to the point that almost nobody wants to play it as a spellcaster, and only a few play it as a hybrid Swashsinger. The unreasonable 20 second cooldown on mass hold and lack of web or tentacles makes takes them down a few notches behind other DC casters.

    4. Melee Rogue - I've seen a few rogue assassins, but not many, and very few acrobats. Gone are the days of sneaky halflings going around groups of mobs to assassinate the casters from behind. Rogue are either mechanics or inquisitives, now. Sad; stealth used to be such an art form, now it takes ungodly amounts of hide/move silently to become useful in high end content and reapers just completely blow your cover.

    5. Vanguard - This is an odd one, considering it used to be very popular pre-sharn. I don't know what happened, but I rarely see fighters or paladins running around S&B, anymore, bullrushing into groups of mobs. I've seen more actual tanks than off-tanks, lately, and I can't remember the last time I heard a fighter talk about their shield bash crits.
    Wow... 2, 4 and 5 are among my favorites... sadly, not playing any of them at the moment.
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  20. #20
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    OMG DDO population in a nutshell--take the easy route for fast PLs obsessive on individual power
    This.

    "Why care to have fun when you have 100+ PLs to go, and at least that many reaper points before you can feel really really good about your character sheets" xd.

    This weekend especially it seemed to me that this mentality is whats mostly left in DDO, aside a few players who actually stop and play a little at 30 before they step back into the grinds.

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