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  1. #1
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Default Precise definition for half-level spell scaling?

    So, half-level scaling for a spell would mean a Level 10 Wizard gets 5 scaling steps; eg. 2d4 + 1/scale.

    So, my question is EXACTLY which levels result in a scaling step? I'm guessing it's either the even levels or the odd levels, but I suppose it could be something stranger. Also, is scaling peculiar to each spell or general? Anyone found some spells that scale evenly while others scale oddly?

    If it matters, I'm mostly curious about scaling for Death Aura, which is 2d4 + 1/scale with scale=level/2, but figured it would be nice to know if there's a general rule for the scaling. Why do I want to know? Curious how much I'd either gain or loose by taking more or fewer Wizard levels on a PM split. Also curious if any caster level bonuses will make a difference.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    So, half-level scaling for a spell would mean a Level 10 Wizard gets 5 scaling steps; eg. 2d4 + 1/scale.

    So, my question is EXACTLY which levels result in a scaling step? I'm guessing it's either the even levels or the odd levels, but I suppose it could be something stranger. Also, is scaling peculiar to each spell or general? Anyone found some spells that scale evenly while others scale oddly?
    If it matters, I'm mostly curious about scaling for Death Aura, which is 2d4 + 1/scale with scale=level/2, but figured it would be nice to know if there's a general rule for the scaling. Why do I want to know? Curious how much I'd either gain or loose by taking more or fewer Wizard levels on a PM split. Also curious if any caster level bonuses will make a difference.

    Death Aura deals 2d4 negative energy damage plus 1 per caster level every three seconds, so every caster level (either through wizard levels or cl bonuses) will scale it. Are you going off the old wikipage for death aura because that claims half caster level scaling but it hasn't been updated in over a year, Compendium and in game description should say it deals 2d4 plus an additional 1 for every caster level
    Responses in Red, I'm not a particular expert on the arcane mysteries of how caster level works so if someone with more experience wants to weigh in or correct something that'd be great.

    https://ddocompendium.com/w/Death_Aura

    To calc spell scaling with caster levels first find out your CL (class level + other bonuses (enhancements, destiny's, gear)) then if it's a half scaling spell divide your caster level by two (round down for decimals) or if it's 1:1 just use it as is, all spell descriptions should list how much they scale with caster levels.

    for example if a spell does 1d6+3 per caster level then with CL5 it'd do 5d6+15, if a spell (in this case death aura) did 2d4 plus an additional 1 per caster level then with CL5 i'd do 2d4 +5, if it did 2d4 + 1 per two caster levels then at CL5 it'd do 2d4+2.5, but the decimal would be dropped resulting in 2d4+2.
    Last edited by FlavoredSoul; 10-17-2019 at 02:02 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response! Couple comments in-line.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    Death Aura deals 2d4 negative energy damage plus 1 per caster level every three seconds
    Recent forum reports (post patch) indicate the tool-tip data is still incorrect and that it scales on half-levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    caster level by two (round down for decimals)
    Have you tested that it's floor(level/scale)? That would imply that it increases on even levels. I was hoping someone had already checked things (and that it used odd scaling), but I suppose I could roll up an iconic to test it.

    --

    For SSG, if they're reading: lack of accurate & precise behavior descriptions for every single ability is one of the major failings of DDO. The game relies on players to create builds. Can't create a viable build without data. This forces players to test and re-test every patch. That kind of thing is guaranteed to drive people off. The operative word is "player" after all, not "tester".

  4. #4
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    I rolled an iconic 9 wiz 6 bard to test this (and to see how bard interacts with PM). The bard song caster level buff does indeed work and the scaling is every level, but it's CL-6 not CL. My best guess for the formula seems to be:
    Code:
    Healing = Floor(1 + Namp * Floor(1 + Npower * (2d4 + CL - 6)))
    Basically it scales for every level you have DA, not every caster level. If it was CL, the raw data couldn't show a healing value less than your caster level. The above formula is not perfect. If it was, the predicted range would match the actual range. This could be due to small sample size not showing the full range. It could be due to the rounding being different than I have above. Most likely it's both.

    Raw Predict N Power N Amp
    CL7 5~12 5~12 1.18 1.06
    CL7 7~16 6~15 1.53 1.06
    CL7+1 9~18 8~17 1.57 1.06
    CL8+1 9~19 9~19 1.57 1.06
    CL9+1 10~21 11~20 1.57 1.06

    I also tested bard sustain song versus PM and it's buggy. If the bard lacks SS:C3 (Music of the Dead), it should probably heal you while in shroud for 50% positive. It actually does nothing. If the bard has SS:C3, it will heal you in shroud. Strictly speaking (since shroud heals for half-positive), with SS:C3 you should get 50% positive AND 100% negative healing, but IMHO, that's a bit much. It should just use the best it can based on enhancements the bard has.

    Also, your shroud-state is snap-shot at the time of song casting. If you are shrouded when song is put on you, you will only heal via negative from song. Turn off shroud and song will no longer heal you (fortunately it does NOT damage you, which I could see happening from the snap-shot). Same thing happens if song is cast on you outside of shroud. You get full positive healing from it, but when you turn shroud off, song is completely disabled (not even 50%).

    IMHO, the snap-shot isn't much of an issue. I don't know many (any?) PMs that dance in and out of shroud. I do think the 50% should apply from bards without SS:C3. Toasters being all-or-nothing from bard song via SS:C4 does provide some argument for similar boolean treatment of shroud, but then they do have much better self-healing than PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Greantun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    I rolled an iconic 9 wiz 6 bard to test this (and to see how bard interacts with PM). The bard song caster level buff does indeed work and the scaling is every level, but it's CL-6 not CL. My best guess for the formula seems to be:
    Code:
    Healing = Floor(1 + Namp * Floor(1 + Npower * (2d4 + CL - 6)))
    I don't believe it is CL-6, it is probably every Wizard caster level, or Wizard/Sorc Caster Level. The fact that 6 is the number of Bard levels you have is probably not a coincidence.

    I wonder if you tried 10/5, or 9 wiz 6 sorc what would happen?

  6. #6
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greantun View Post
    it is probably every Wizard caster level
    Sorry, the data says NO. If it was every wizard level, it would be impossible for it to ever heal for less than 7 even if there were no dice tossed in for a bit of variety on the range.

    It's not really germaine, but while the test iconic eventually became 9/6, the way I was tested CL=7 was by pausing at 7/0. The 6 bard came later in order to test the bard song CL+1 feature and Sustain v Shroud. The difference in negative power you see on the two CL=7 rows comes from 7/0 and 7/6 (bard is giving the power via SS tree). The char was naked the entire time to keep Npower and Namp as low as possible.

  7. #7
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    Death aura is and always has been 2d4 + half caster level, capped at 20, ticks every 3 seconds.
    Greater death aura is 3d4 + half caster level, capped at 20, ticks every 3 seconds.
    Both can have their max caster level increased (magister up to +3, master of the dead +10).

    I have tested both since the pm update.

    The devs recently updated the text to say it ticks every 3 sec (used to erroneously say 2).
    They have not changed the text or spell regarding half/full caster levels.

  8. #8
    Community Member Greantun's Avatar
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    In regards to the compendium and in game text matching, the compendium team made a decision to have all the descriptions, etc exactly match in game. No editorializing or stating what may or may be different than that. Any differences are to be called out in the notes.

    I will update the notes on the spells to include a note about the 1/2 caster level.

  9. #9
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peng View Post
    Death aura is and always has been 2d4 + half caster level
    Can almost get there with
    Code:
    Healing = Floor(Namp * Floor(Npower * (2d4 + CL/2)))
    But there are still anomalies that don't fit that formula, such as raw data that is too high @ CL=9 and CL=10 and an increase from CL=8 to CL=9. If you add rounding, you end up not fitting even more of the raw data with CL/2. I wonder if there aren't some other things that we're not considering. For instance, is the character's MRR a factor; ie. is it reducing the incoming before it's recognized as worthy of amplification for healing? What about zone scaling?

    I did my testing in town and I don't think my character had any MRR, but I didn't check that.

    Frankly, I'm kinda done with testing this one. We'd need data on damage to target with corresponding healing to go further and for many more levels; eg. with an LTR @ 20 and test at every level (during level up opens the potential for a patch hitting during the sequence). Target damage data would be iffy there; can't control all parameters of the target to keep it the same for every level test.

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