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  1. #41
    Community Member Erofen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    a penalty to run speed when you run backwards
    This is already a thing.
    Orien: ~Erofen (30 Assassin Rogue) ~Erofenlock (30 EB Warlock) ~Erofenmonk (30 Light Monk) ~Erofentrap (30 Roguerficer (1st TR/Legend Build ever)) ~Erofenbarb (30 Barb) ~Erofenbless (30 FvS Chest Blesser) ~Erofenthree (30 Bard Dualbox) ~Erofenten (30 Barb Triplebox)
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Um, I'm almost afraid to ask, but exactly just what is 'sneak humping'? Kex! Stop It! O.o

  2. #42
    Community Member Karthunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Its the nerf agenda that hosed melee in the first place.

    Explain to us which melee build would be OP in todays game if every single melee nerf demanded and received since the paladin revamp was returned to its pre-nerf version?
    I just finished a full TR with quests set to EE, most solo, with a two handed paladin and had no issues.

    It's only in high reaper that melee can run into issues.

  3. #43
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karthunk View Post
    I just finished a full TR with quests set to EE, most solo, with a two handed paladin and had no issues.

    It's only in high reaper that melee can run into issues.
    Paladin most certainly is not OP in the current meta. They could un-nerf holy sword and there are still current builds which are more powerful.

    Heck, they could give you back glancing blows while moving as well, and its still not OP.

    Giving you back those two items, youd still see those issues in high reaper, simply because its melee /shrug.

    So which melee build is OP if they are given back the stuff that got nerfed in the past? (since the paladin revamp)
    Last edited by Chai; 09-20-2019 at 04:51 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerianus View Post
    it's pretty simple, make melee better. game improvements, not nerfs.
    The game is too friggin easy now in 99.9% of the encounters. Balancing upwards is how we got in this mess in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  5. #45
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erofen View Post
    This is already a thing.
    No, it’s not and I also said sideways.
    The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
    "From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."

  6. #46
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    The game is too friggin easy now in 99.9% of the encounters. Balancing upwards is how we got in this mess in the first place.
    Reaper debuff curve should not have been reduced.

    melee got a 250% DPS increase ini R10, Casters/Ranged got a 375% DPS increase.

    R10 bosses are being killed in sub 30 seconds by even semi decent DPS groups, a good DPS group of 4 solid top tier DPS is doing it in sub 10s.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  7. #47
    Intergalactic Space Crusader
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    Livmo's Avatar
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    Default Woot woot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenaphon View Post
    I have a DC Warlock, Inquisitor, and a Melee Wiz at the moment. You can nerf all 3 if you like. I guess I can build a Sorc instead.
    Excellent those all need to be nerfed with the exception Sorc, because that is what I'm playing right now

    They're to OP and need to be way less DPS that my Sorc. In fact nerf all other builds and just let me collect the stones at the start. I'll rez everyone at the end chest with scrolls.

  8. #48
    Community Member Hawkwier's Avatar
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    Remove IPS from the game.

    Or at.least imit it to affecting only two targets.

    I know it's a fantasy game and all, but the idea. Of shooting one missile and it passing through everything in its path is literally ridiculous.

    And while your at it, make rates of fire more reflective of their physics . That would help bow users compared to xbows.

    The notion of the current two machine pistol meta is laughable. More Doom than DDO.

    Tlits introduction was a terrible terrible idea.

  9. #49
    Community Member Karthunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkwier View Post
    Remove IPS from the game.

    Or at.least imit it to affecting only two targets.

    I know it's a fantasy game and all, but the idea. Of shooting one missile and it passing through everything in its path is literally ridiculous.

    And while your at it, make rates of fire more reflective of their physics . That would help bow users compared to xbows.

    The notion of the current two machine pistol meta is laughable. More Doom than DDO.

    Tlits introduction was a terrible terrible idea.

    And you had the choice to purchase the inq tree or not. Leave those that purchased the tree to enjoy the game while you enjoy the game playing what you want.

  10. #50
    Community Member Ghwyn's Avatar
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    Yes, Nerf ranged. Here is how I would do it:

    Remove IPS.
    Make archers focus a penalty removal rather than a bonus. If you move, take a penalty to hit and damage.
    Make magical arrow and bolts a feat rather than a first level enhancement or spell.
    Gwhyn Saige - heroic and epic completionist, loving the EK build
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...elee-wizard-EK

  11. #51
    Community Member Karthunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghwyn View Post
    Yes, Nerf ranged. Here is how I would do it:

    Remove IPS.
    Make archers focus a penalty removal rather than a bonus. If you move, take a penalty to hit and damage.
    Make magical arrow and bolts a feat rather than a first level enhancement or spell.
    I will agree with this but we also remove all cleave abilities from the game.

  12. #52
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Sev apparently said in Discord that SSG was very happy with Inquisitive performance and thought it was fine. They know it’s strong and they like that.

    I guess balance only only matters in some contexts. If you’re paying for a new class, it’s going to be more powerful.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  13. #53
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
    Excellent those all need to be nerfed with the exception Sorc, because that is what I'm playing right now

    They're to OP and need to be way less DPS that my Sorc. In fact nerf all other builds and just let me collect the stones at the start. I'll rez everyone at the end chest with scrolls.
    If you could carry stones out of one quest and into the next quest I wouldn’t even care if you rez me.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  14. #54
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenaphon View Post
    Its pretty simple. Leave the DPS of range toons (add dps for archers), but take away their ability to kite. You should not be able to move at full speed and reload. It would lead to perching, but that happens anyway right now.
    I counter your proposal with increasing melee damage (un-nerfing Helpless damage), increasing melee damage boosts, and increasing 2H weapons (somehow, not sure how though :P )
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Sev apparently said in Discord that SSG was very happy with Inquisitive performance and thought it was fine.
    It is because devs have wrong scale that estimate power of class. They compared INQ to rogue mechanic GXB what is already SO OP.
    They said INQ have very similar performance with rogue mechanic GXB, so, that's why INQ is so op now.

    What makes some class OP can be simplified in just 4 factor. highDPS+AOE , CRIT RANGE, attack speed, spammable high DC instakill.

    See old OP lists :
    monkarcher, shuri-thrower, AA-exploit, rogue GXB : high burst DPS + IPS
    ES warlock : huge high damage AOE that can be spammed.
    wolf-exploit : TWF+SWF attack speed
    9-20 crit build : crit range
    monks : highDPS + AOE + spammable high DC instakill

    New OP lists:
    INQ : highDPS+AOE with high attackspeed
    Sorc : 100%+ crit with 300% crit damage + AOE
    Wiz : spammable high DC instakill
    Last edited by draven1; 09-20-2019 at 11:11 PM.
    “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness.
    Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness.
    Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.”
    - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

  16. #56
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandelia View Post
    Making ranged toons actually aim at their targets would go a long way to nerfing their output. If you can walk into a room and keep your finger on the trigger while it automatically soft targets everything in turn, you are at a serious advantage to a clunky, walk-up-to-and-bash-on-each-target melee.
    You don't play the inquisitor do you? Or likely any crossbow builds?

    See if you can figure out how I know...
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  17. #57
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    There is multiple penalties to kiting already. Most ranged know of 1 and dont care about the other. The first being the penalty to to-hit, the 2nd is the actual damage loss.

    While kiting you don't get 1: stand and deliver. 2: archers focus. 3: you make it harder for everyone else in party to hit(so less overall damage). So if you are a melee running with a ranged and they are kiting. Let them have that mob, if it kills them just laugh at them and tell em should learn how to handle agro or take a hit.
    This is actually getting to the point. Thank you.

    If all you know how to do is kite away from the rest of your group, go solo instead. Then maybe these threads will go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    Honestly, if I was the developers what I would look at is a penalty to run speed when you run backwards or sideways, perhaps 25% slower. IRL you can only run full speed going forward.
    Ever watch and NFL cornerback run backwards?

    I coach 14-18 year old kids to be defensive backs. They can move backwards and sideways faster than 95% of the players can move forward in a straight line.

    Can they move faster forward? Yep. Certainly. But unless the opponent is one of the fastest on the field it doesn't matter.

    So how do I relate this back to DDO? If you build a character for speed. i.e. perma-haste, 25%+ run speed. Run speed boosts etc. Then unless the DDO mob is also build for speed, you will out run then while going backwards. Should there be mobs that can catch you? Yep. (I also believe this already happens.) But the average armored up, club wielding mob should not be as fast as a built for speed player character.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  18. #58
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    While making it impossible to move while firing would be a disaster for DDO gameplay, a small reduction in backward run speed could help. Casters also get reduced run speed and have to exert themselves a bit when kiting. That said, the main problem is that Inq has much higher base attack speed speed than anything else with little downside. The only thing that can compete is epic monk shuri with TTS, and that was already overperforming, with a substantial downside in being very late to bloom.

    They should just normalize all ranged attack styles to within 60-80% of melee and nerf Fusilade/NHB/TTS/Manyshot/shuriken expertize/whirling wrists to like half of their current efficacy. As long as these highly specialized OP abilities exist, ranged is going to be forever limited to a small number of over-performing build-combinations, while the rest are traps. It makes no sense that DPS classes like ranger/kensai/rogue should perform so much worse with bow than with xbow. Why is Kensai with any ranged weapon like 30% of the DPS of Inq dual xbow? Both are pure DPS trees.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 09-21-2019 at 07:29 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    You don't play the inquisitor do you? Or likely any crossbow builds?

    See if you can figure out how I know...
    The ranged in this game sucks mechanically, being able to hit everything in a room without moving a muscle in a 'FPS' is broken. IPS is not what I was talking about which is what you were suggesting, that makes the game just as silly firing into infinity in a straight line on soft targeting. I have one of the strongest inquisitor builds on Kyber and it seriously embarrasses me to play the thing. It tore apart R10 before the pass and it makes R10s silly still. You know nothing about me, but you generally seem unpleasant so I don't take it personal.
    Last edited by Mandelia; 09-21-2019 at 07:43 AM.

  20. #60
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandelia View Post
    The ranged in this game sucks mechanically, being able to hit everything in a room without moving a muscle in a 'FPS' is broken. IPS is not what I was talking about which is what you were suggesting, that makes the game just as silly firing into infinity in a straight line on soft targeting. I have one of the strongest inquisitor builds on Kyber and it seriously embarrasses me to play the thing. It tore apart R10 before the pass and it makes R10s silly still. You know nothing about me, but you generally seem unpleasant so I don't take it personal.
    I'm glad we can have an unemotional and impersonal discussion. It is far superior to emotional pleas and personal attacks.

    Since when is DDO a FPS?

    And no, I was not talking about IPS at all.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

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